Been fighting heat issues, UV and pumps, possible solution???

[ShawnSaucier]

I was having some serious heat issues with my system, reaching 82.6 degrees. I’ve tied it down to a combo of factors. I live in FL and the summer can be brutal on the tank even with AC running 24/7, so this was a concern with the summer coming up.
The first was the two pumps I was using for the return and manifold feed. The return has been swapped out and the flow I am receiving at 70% power is triple what I was getting at 100% on the other. With the new return and not running the manifold, my temp dropped down to 77.4 range after a week.
Next was turning just the manifold pump on but not the UV. My temp raised 1 degree in an hour. So I removed the pump with plans to replace with another brand. I also decided to take a look at what was going on inside my UV. As I opened it up, my quartz sleeve disintegrated. It was severely browned out and just fell apart. This led me to believe that between the pump flow, and the orientation of the Sterilizer in the tank ( horizontal) that there was an air pocket within the sterilizer.
So what do I do??
Well since I have been monitoring this situation, I have been reading up on a drop in Sterilizer from Ice Cap. Once I started comparing space in my sump/stand I felt that maybe this is the path to go. So I have added the 27w unit into my system and ran it for 48 hrs. Starting temp was 78.4, I had not let the tank cool into the 77 degree range as it had before. Over the 48 hrs the temp creeped up again but no where near to the speed it had before. So I have cut the power again as I was reaching close to 80 degrees. But it took 48 hrs to climb there so I am feeling okay so far.
So here is my plan, in the Apex I am programming the UV outlet as a heater, the unit will turn on at 78 degrees and cut off at 79.5. Pump will run continuously. Also I have added a Tunze Fan pointing down into my sump, 6” above the running water line. This will turn on when temps reach 78.5. The hope is for the fan to counter act the heat of the UV and hopefully keep it on consistently. Even if it’s a couple of hours each day would be great.
The next option would be to create a Virtual Outlet in Apex, and run the UV on certain days. I have never created a virtual outlet, so that will be a process.
Please, any advice would be tremendously helpful.

 

[Gumbies R Us]

#reefsquad

 

[tbrown]

I live in the Phoenix area so I gave similar heat issues. Surface agitation is key. Running the fans or even pointing a powerhead towards the surface to increase surface agitation has helped tremendously for me.

 

[ShawnSaucier]

I live in the Phoenix area so I gave similar heat issues. Surface agitation is key. Running the fans or even pointing a powerhead towards the surface to increase surface agitation has helped tremendously for me.

My in Display surface agitation is great IMO, tons of rippling across the whole surface. I am hoping the fan blowing on the sump ( into skimmer compartment) will really help as well.

 

[W31Olds]

It's part of the Hobby. Reef Equipment = Heat= Additional Expense. That's one of the reasons I run an undersized heater. In my opinion, building a plan to sequence devices on and off to manage Tank Temp is the wrong approach, that's why I just Run a 1/3 Chiller. For me it's either that or turn my home thermostat down and my Chiller doesn't run during the Winter Months anyway.

 

[Fish Fan]

@Troylee is in Vegas, and probably knows a thing or two about keeping a tank cool in the heat

If you're in Florida you may need to add a chiller to your system. In the meantime, get a fan and aim it so it's blowing across the surface of your tank and/or sump. You can also freeze plastic water bottled and try floating one or two in the tank during the hottest afternoon heat.

 

[ShawnSaucier]

It's part of the Hobby. Reef Equipment = Heat= Additional Expense. That's one of the reasons I run an undersized heater. In my opinion, building a plan to sequence devices on and off to manage Tank Temp is the wrong approach, that's why I just Run a 1/3 Chiller. For me it's either that or turn my home thermostat down and my Chiller doesn't run during the Winter Months anyway.

The hope is that the fan is enough to keep the UV on 24/7. I just have the UV set to run on temp currently while the system adjusts to all of the removals and additions.
Also to plumb a chiller into this system would be a Herculean project, including emptying the whole system. And finding the space for the chiller that isn’t obtrusive to the room would be tough.

 

[slingfox]

To deal with heat issues on my 110g display + 30g sump, I have two Tunze fans running across the surface at the top of the tank, only run UV at night when things are cooler, and I have an oversized pumps for my return line and manifold which only run at 35% and 20%, respectively.

Have you tested whether putting the fan in the sump or on the display tank reduces temperature more? You may want to put a fan in both places.

 

[ShawnSaucier]

To deal with heat issues on my 110g display + 30g sump, I have two Tunze fans running across the surface at the top of the tank, only run UV at night when things are cooler, and I have an oversized pumps for my return line and manifold which only run at 35% and 20%, respectively.

Have you tested whether putting the fan in the sump or on the display tank reduces temperature more? You may want to put a fan in both places.

Just installed fan into the sump and will watch what happens over the next week.

 

[Rocks reef]

Is there a reason you are running the UV? Meaning, if you don't need it, I'd shut it off. Using UV is a tool, they aren't needed to have a successful reef.

 

[ShawnSaucier]

Is there a reason you are running the UV? Meaning, if you don't need it, I'd shut it off. Using UV is a tool, they aren't needed to have a successful reef.

I’ve been running UV for decades. It may not be a necessity, but I have rarely had major algae issues or disease issues in my systems. Maybe it’s luck, but why change what has seemed to work.

 

[DeathPulse]

I’ve been running UV for decades. It may not be a necessity, but I have rarely had major algae issues or disease issues in my systems. Maybe it’s luck, but why change what has seemed to work.

Any updates with the fan? I have a icecap 27w in sump myself and it brought my temps from a stable 78F up to 81F and climbing. I’m also in Florida and I’m trying to find a solution.

 

[ShawnSaucier]

Any updates with the fan? I have a icecap 27w in sump myself and it brought my temps from a stable 78F up to 81F and climbing. I’m also in Florida and I’m trying to find a solution.

Here in Orlando the weather has been getting closer to normal summer temps.we have had a very warm weekend.
The fan is definitely helping. My temp hits its maximum around 7 pm daily. The UV I run from midnight to 9 am at this point. I think I may add a secondary fan to blow across the top of the display and see where that brings us. Currently the fan blows directly into the skimmer chamber of the sump. An added side note, my PH has creeped up in the last week since adding the fan in this position.
I think that between my plumbing (1”) , wrong return pumps and orientation of the old UV (horizontal vs vertical), it was a compound effect. Pumps working to hard against the pressure, possible air pocket in the UV.
As always, constantly learning with this hobby.

 

[ScottF]

I'm in Miami and also have had heat issues with my 250gal reef. A while back I added a small wall fan blowing down across the surface of my tank and set my Apex to turn it on at 80 degrees.

Since then my tank doesn't get above 80 degrees. Evaporation is a release of energy. Pointing a fan at the surface of the tank increases evaporation. Putting a fan in the sump helps some, but not nearly as much as pointing one at the surface of the tank.

 

[Clownfish2]

Fans can get you a 3-5 degree F reduction in water temperature easily. You’ll use a lot of ATO water due to evaporation but the watts required to run fans are very low.

My sump has a 12 inch fan mounted on top of it and is located in the garage. Garage is air conditioned to 79. Fan keeps my water at 80 even when it’s in the 90s outside and with my protein skimmer pulling outside air.

 

[ShawnSaucier]

Added two Vornado Pivots above the tank. Works like a charm. Tank stays between 77.8-78.5 degrees. All on the Apex.
Pulled the Manifold and second pump. Swapped to the 27w Ice Cap UV which runs every night from 9pm to 9 am.
It has been odd as I have not had heat issues before. With other tanks in the same spot in the house.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Let's start here:
A watt is a watt - a way to express energy. Heat and energy are synonymous.

1 watt for 1 hour is 3.41 BTUs of heat.

It takes 1 BTU to raise 1 pound of water 1 degree Fahrenheit.

Anything submerged in your tank or cooled by tank water imparts 3.41 BTUs per watt hour into the tank. That includes pumps, UVs, etc.

Your tank sheds heat several ways, but primarily through conduction, that is glass and water touching air, and evaporation at the surface. Maybe a bit of radiation and convection as well. Those vectors are limited to surface area and minor compared to the conduction and evaporation.

The only reasonable way to increase cooling outside of adding a chiller is to lower the room temperature, or drive evaporation. Evaporating 1 gallon of water removes just over 8,000 BTUs from the tank.

The best way to drive evaporation is to aim a fan parallel to the water surface, not pointing down at it. This quickly moves a sheet of air over the water surface, renewing the "dry" air layer and allowing it to absorb water vapor.

I will leave the math to you, but you can drive a lot of cooling via evaporation. The limit is what your room can handle and your ATO can replenish.

Happy Reefing.

 

[Jamie814]

A watt is a watt - a way to express energy. Heat and energy are synonymous.

1 watt for 1 hour is 3.41 BTUs of heat.

THIS ^
Changing pumps or to a different UV may not do anything to reduce heat. The watt draw on the pump or equipment is what is going to raise your temps. Reduce the wattage= reduced heat.

The best way to drive evaporation is to aim a fan parallel to the water surface, not pointing down at it. This quickly moves a sheet of air over the water surface, renewing the "dry" air layer and allowing it to absorb water vapor.

AND THIS ^
If this isn't enough a chiller may be necessary. IMO

 

[BeanAnimal]

And I should have been more clear, if we are being pedantic. Watts are are a rate of energy... A way to express how much energy over time, ergo how much heat.

 

[ShawnSaucier]

Thank you all for your replies. Fans have been perfect with less than a 1 degree fluctuation through out the day.
Yeah, my question on why the issues with heat on this tank; my last system was a close to a similar volume. And actually had a bit more of a power draw than the current system. More lights, bigger pumps, less water. Looking at it a bit more critically I think, and could be wrong, but my sump has compartments that are lidded (cryptic fuge, return compartment). Also the display is Euro braced and 3/4” glass. With a mesh lid on the display and the Euro bracing I am essentially covering 33% of the top of the tank. Last tank was rimless with a mesh lid. So I have cut open air flow quite a bit.
But seems to be sorted with the fans. Will remember this next time I go custom.