MH & LED Mix Help with par/photo period

[wrassie86]

Hello
Above my tank (180g standard) is 3 x 250 watt phoenix bulbs (electronic ballast), 4x viparspectra black boxes half the white optics are removed and 2x Blue 470nm light bars flanking the other lights. lights are 16 inches above the water ,Now I know this is enough light to melt even the most light loving acro. But looks fantastic throughout the photo period. since I have all the lights my goal is a ramp through out the day with the benefits of both lights. but confused on par levels when it comes to the LED.

Right now is
2x Light bars 12 hrs
4x viparspectra 10 hrs total, par 180 to 200 at the top of my rocks 130 to 150 at bottom of tank.
MH runs for 3 hrs working them up to 4 hrs total run time. Still need to get par for all lights on.
While I don't have any sps corals in this tank right now (getting ready to order some) My lps at the bottom of the tank have been under this lighting for a week now and look great.
With the par being 200 just from the led I assume this is still less par than I would have with 400 watt metal halide.Using the 250" as a peak sun. Just wondering if anybody would think this is to much/ not enough. any thoughts?

 

[blaxsun]

Only a PAR meter could tell you for certain.

 

[wrassie86]

Only a PAR meter could tell you for certain.

I have a par meter, Today I will get the par readings with all lights on. My concern lies with seeing a lot of people/ farmers running their tanks at 200 par with LED for SPS, that is where mine is now without the MH coming on for 3-4 hrs. My LPS corals seem pretty content and have not lightened at all. So thinking I'm in the ballpark for what I was trying to achieve.

 

[blaxsun]

It sounds like it. Most of my SPS are in the 125-150 PAR range and seem to do well at those levels.

 

[Nonya]

I have a par meter, Today I will get the par readings with all lights on. My concern lies with seeing a lot of people/ farmers running their tanks at 200 par with LED for SPS, that is where mine is now without the MH coming on for 3-4 hrs. My LPS corals seem pretty content and have not lightened at all. So thinking I'm in the ballpark for what I was trying to achieve.

Which PAR meter are you using? Some are notorious for not reading the blue spectrum well at all.

 

[wrassie86]

Which PAR meter are you using? Some are notorious for not reading the blue spectrum well at all.

I believe it is the MQX 210 will have to look it up. I have always questioned it's reading of blueish light.

 

[jda]

The MH are enough light. Even on electronic ballasts, they are enough output for nearly anything that you want to keep at any level in that tank. This is especially true if you are going to continue your LPS at the bottom and keep the SPS up higher. I am assuming that the reflectors are not junk.

Work those phoenix up to 8-10 hours a day. Use the LEDs to fill in the look that you want - blue-it-up, dusk-dawn, whatever. You can even turn the LEDs off when you are not viewing the tank to save power and life span on the panels.

I run MH on my tanks and I do not supplement them at all - no need for the corals or for me since I love the look of 14k Phoenix alone. I do have a frag tank with MH and also some T5s and a ReefBrite XHO over it since some people like to see the frags this way. I only turn the T5s and XHO on in the evening or when somebody is over and wants to see.

Those 14k Phoenix have more to offer, if you ever need it. You can run them on electronic ballasts on Super Lumems or HQI setting and get ever more output. You also can run them on real m80 ballasts and get a whole pile of output probably 25-40% more than just on electronic ballasts.

 

[jda]

MH will have usable spectrum that a PAR meter cannot see or capture. They only catch visible light and, even then, are soft on the edges. Your 14k Phoenix will have usable spectrum from 350-850nm and the Apogee 210 will only capture from about 420(ish) to 680(ish). If you get a reading for 400, for example, on the 14k Phoenix, you have more light that the corals can use.

 

[Pntbll687]

The MH are enough light. Even on electronic ballasts, they are enough output for nearly anything that you want to keep at any level in that tank. This is especially true if you are going to continue your LPS at the bottom and keep the SPS up higher. I am assuming that the reflectors are not junk.

Work those phoenix up to 8-10 hours a day. Use the LEDs to fill in the look that you want - blue-it-up, dusk-dawn, whatever. You can even turn the LEDs off when you are not viewing the tank to save power and life span on the panels.

I run MH on my tanks and I do not supplement them at all - no need for the corals or for me since I love the look of 14k Phoenix alone. I do have a frag tank with MH and also some T5s and a ReefBrite XHO over it since some people like to see the frags this way. I only turn the T5s and XHO on in the evening or when somebody is over and wants to see.

Those 14k Phoenix have more to offer, if you ever need it. You can run them on electronic ballasts on Super Lumems or HQI setting and get ever more output. You also can run them on real m80 ballasts and get a whole pile of output probably 25-40% more than just on electronic ballasts.

^^^ THIS

I would also run the halides for 8hrs with the LED adding more blue to how you like it.

You'd probably be fine with just the halides and light bars, the 4 black boxes might be overkill

 

[wrassie86]

^^^ THIS

I would also run the halides for 8hrs with the LED adding more blue to how you like it.

You'd probably be fine with just the halides and light bars, the 4 black boxes might be overkill

Yes it was overkill the par readings were all over the place. I since have abandoned the black boxes. Never hurts to try, it did look really good.

 

[Nonya]

^^^ THIS

I would also run the halides for 8hrs with the LED adding more blue to how you like it.

You'd probably be fine with just the halides and light bars, the 4 black boxes might be overkill

How funny is it that you mention light bars and an advertisement for light bars shows up directly below your post on my screen? It's like Google keeping track of everything it hears me say on my phone.

 

[minus9]

Quanta Pro meso blue bars look awesome with my 14k hammies

No filter used with the pic. The bars were just hanging to get a sense of how everything would look.

 

[Nonya]

You'd probably be fine with just the halides and light bars, the 4 black boxes might be overkill

Or replace the halides with BBs. They'll be around long after the death knell of halides.

 

[wrassie86]

Or replace the halides with BBs. They'll be around long after the death knell of halides.

You just don't give up do you either way I've tried to go led only 3 times and it has been a failure each time. I've come to the conclusion my tank as a whole does not like them.

 

[jda]

If halides do go away in 50 years, you can get some black boxes at that time, which won't be these ones and will likely be a lot better... or at least newer to start the clock on the life span.

 

[Nonya]

You just don't give up do you either way I've tried to go led only 3 times and it has been a failure each time. I've come to the conclusion my tank as a whole does not like them.

I just had to. It was way too tempting not to.

 

[wrassie86]

MH will have usable spectrum that a PAR meter cannot see or capture. They only catch visible light and, even then, are soft on the edges. Your 14k Phoenix will have usable spectrum from 350-850nm and the Apogee 210 will only capture from about 420(ish) to 680(ish). If you get a reading for 400, for example, on the 14k Phoenix, you have more light that the corals can use.

Maybe a hard question, But any guesses as to how much that par meter could be off with measuring a mostly blue spectrum? like say 200 par could be closer to 250 par or less?

 

[wrassie86]

Quanta Pro meso blue bars look awesome with my 14k hammies

No filter used with the pic. The bars were just hanging to get a sense of how everything would look.

Nice! looks really blue, I thought the 14k hammy would be whiter or you have the bars on? any chance of a pic without the bars on?

 

[jda]

I tried this once, but it is so meter and bulb dependent. I have an Apogee 510, which does a better job in the low 400s than the 210 does - the sensor is better. It also depends on how much you value IR - I value it a lot and believe that the Emerson Effect is totally legit and why corals don't mind as much PAR with MH as they do LED.

This is totally a guess, but maybe 20% with the Apogee 210 for a Phoenix 14k and more like 10-15% with the 510 with the wider range sensor?

This is nothing scientific.

 

[Nonya]

Maybe a hard question, But any guesses as to how much that par meter could be off with measuring a mostly blue spectrum? like say 200 par could be closer to 250 par or less?

Depends on the PAR meter used. My SQ-520 is very accurate between 400 and 700 NM.