Micro Scrubbing Bubbles.

[Cruz_Arias]

If your display is not cloudy, the bubbles are too big or you have very little.

Correct... the smaller the bubbles, the longer they dwell... the longer they dwell, the more that can build up and aggregate... (Starts off hazy)
Over the next few hours, the larger bubbles are released out of the water column due to buoyancy, while the smaller types of pinpoint bubbles continue circulating throughout the system.

Nanobubbles do not act like their slightly larger cousins found in the skimmer utilizing needlewheels... the needle wheel (mechanically) is the limiting factor in bubble size and ultimately bubble dwell time in the skimmer.

 

[Reeflogic]

If your display is not cloudy, the bubbles are too big or you have very little.

When I first researched the EC FB post and other threads here on R2R, I was under the impression you don't want it to look like a cloud of smoke, that you want it to be cloudy but still be able to view corals. This is what I have in my system. The bubbles remain fluidized for a long time, they aren't rising to the surface instantly, in some of my lower flow areas (which isn't much, I run 2x MP40's and a DC9000 return on a 48 x 24 x 21), the bubbles almost seem to be suspended, slowly bouncing off of the glass or sand or whatever. They look just like your video entering the water column of the display, just not the same amount, quite a bit less, actually.

 

[Cruz_Arias]

@Thales Hello. Hope all is well.

 

[Reeflogic]

the needle wheel (mechanically) is the limiting factor in bubble size and ultimately bubble dwell time in the skimmer.

Thanks Cruz, I may try the limewood diffuser just to see. I'm not sure what pumps Reef Octopus use for their nano-skimmers and I'm not sure it makes a difference on the manufacturer. I'll keep at it and posts my results. I'm 10 days in, I still believe my tank is clearer than it was before, not much to report on coral growth or fish health at this point, but no adverse effects to report! The only "odd" thing that has happened, and maybe with your experience Cruz, you can comment on this... I have had 3-4 BTA's split within the first few days of bubbling. These are clones off of an original BTA I purchased 2-3 years ago and they had not split in roughly 8 months, until last week, once I incorporated bubbling in my system. Coincidence? Have you observed this before? Oh and they remain more bubbled throughout the day now!

 

[Cruz_Arias]

When I first researched the EC FB post and other threads here on R2R, I was under the impression you don't want it to look like a cloud of smoke, that you want it to be cloudy but still be able to view corals. This is what I have in my system. The bubbles remain fluidized for a long time, they aren't rising to the surface instantly, in some of my lower flow areas (which isn't much, I run 2x MP40's and a DC9000 return on a 48 x 24 x 21), the bubbles almost seem to be suspended, slowly bouncing off of the glass or sand or whatever. They look just like your video entering the water column of the display, just not the same amount, quite a bit less, actually.

There are differing opinions on that... but so long as you're aerating into the DT enough to reach the sand bed (the smaller bubbles go all the way to the bottom without much energy) that's what is desired... It takes time to build up that smoky cloudy look... it's not instantaneous which is a misunderstanding... it is also not "INJECTED" with pressure in any means except the air stone in this demonstration.

"By the intake of the return pump" means just that... Not typically on or under the return pump intake, but not too too important for demonstration of how forgiving the method is...

Another issue to dispel is that when the ATO runs low and sucks in air uncontrollably, yes... you run into a situation where you can supersaturate your system... This is not the same as pushing the smallest of the small air nanobubbles through the system

With an airstone,
A) the amount of air you can push though it is limited
B) the amount of bubbles sucked in (if the air stone is placed correctly) is limited by size by the means of buoyancy.
C) when the ATO runs low and the return pump starts sucking in air... it has nothing to do with the air stone... (Isolated from not topping off)

The smaller bubbles will start growing in number... that's what you see in the videos... typically after 15 to 30 minutes after running...

 

[Cruz_Arias]

Thanks Cruz, I may try the limewood diffuser just to see. I'm not sure what pumps Reef Octopus use for their nano-skimmers and I'm not sure it makes a difference on the manufacturer. I'll keep at it and posts my results. I'm 10 days in, I still believe my tank is clearer than it was before, not much to report on coral growth or fish health at this point, but no adverse effects to report! The only "odd" thing that has happened, and maybe with your experience Cruz, you can comment on this... I have had 3-4 BTA's split within the first few days of bubbling. These are clones off of an original BTA I purchased 2-3 years ago and they had not split in roughly 8 months, until last week, once I incorporated bubbling in my system. Coincidence? Have you observed this before? Oh and they remain more bubbled throughout the day now!

Yes... we have OBSERVED it... but didn't understand why our BTAs split as well... and our toadstools... and of course mushrooms like TerriL's Bubbalicious...
But yes... something is happening and would be interesting if this had anything to do with it!
Many have said and reported that this was the case... after a few weeks... poof... lots of clones...

Would be awesome if someone would allow their science fair kid to do this experiment? Let's engage the younger generation in the hobby... They'll love it.

But until then I cannot confirm nor deny that the Elegant Corals, LLC Micro Scrubbing Nanobubbles had anything to do with the splitting.

 

[Cruz_Arias]

To once again dispel misconceptions misinterpretations, and misunderstanding:

No. I was never mad at RRoss. LOL

TWO issues we noticed in our numerous hobbyists' tanks that we maintain, help with, help setup there were two major issues that we have seen... Inherited accounts were horrible...

Lack of Proper Aeration and Heavy Detritus Build-Up...

Microbubbling has been our solution to keep the detritus from settling back down onto the rockwork we just cleaned... floated out bryopsis to the overflow to be filtered out by a mesh sock... etc... it was a tool I personally have utilized on my tanks since 1996...

 

[cb684]

Why don't we try to quantify the micro bubbles using a hanna colorimeter? I am guessing that if we compare before the bubbles and after, let's say, 20 minutes of turning the pump off, that would give a good idea of how much micro-nano bubbles were injected / volume. Does that make sense?

 

[Cruz_Arias]

When I first researched the EC FB post and other threads here on R2R, I was under the impression you don't want it to look like a cloud of smoke, that you want it to be cloudy but still be able to view corals. This is what I have in my system. The bubbles remain fluidized for a long time, they aren't rising to the surface instantly, in some of my lower flow areas (which isn't much, I run 2x MP40's and a DC9000 return on a 48 x 24 x 21), the bubbles almost seem to be suspended, slowly bouncing off of the glass or sand or whatever. They look just like your video entering the water column of the display, just not the same amount, quite a bit less, actually.

Also a Disclaimer... The Picture of the Bubble Plume was just that... For Show

 

[Cruz_Arias]

Why don't we try to quantify the micro bubbles using a hanna colorimeter? I am guessing that if we compare before the bubbles and after, let's say, 20 minutes of turning the pump off, that would give a good idea of how much micro-nano bubbles were injected / volume. Does that make sense?

We utilize colorimetry in dynamic fluid piping here at the chemical company... Optek Colorimetry and Turbidity sensors.
The problem is, once motion stops, the bubbles have a chance to rise and dissipate or gets absorbed (depending on gas saturation of the water and temperature of the water)

What would be simpler is a "good/not good switch type of sensor" that only measures obscurance of light or light intensity based on particulates... NBs are particulates can be counted (refraction of light)

 

[Cruz_Arias]

Why don't we try to quantify the micro bubbles using a hanna colorimeter? I am guessing that if we compare before the bubbles and after, let's say, 20 minutes of turning the pump off, that would give a good idea of how much micro-nano bubbles were injected / volume. Does that make sense?

Great idea though!!! but it has to be flowing fluid if that makes sense and the "sight glass" chamber of the sensors have to be humidity free, just in case of false readings from condensation and dust...

 

[Gomery12]

Set this up last night with a fusion air pump and placed stone right under the intake. Worked great. The only problem I have is that I wanted to program on/off with my RKE but for some reason when the RKE switches to off the air pump stays on. Trying to figure that one out.

 

[Thales]

Hey Rich
Carlson Surge Device... the Vortex squeezes the air column in the surge tank in the "whirlpool" as the surge device drains...
Look at Joe's Video at time 12:00 on...

I don't think it is fair to say Joe is bubbling.

 

[Cruz_Arias]

I don't think it is fair to say Joe is bubbling.

Not intentionally for the reasons I stated as visible observations of better water clarity, et cetera... but still doing it unaware is still doing it...

There was a guy I knew who stuttered when he was flustered... claims he doesn't.

 

[d2mini]

Set this up last night with a fusion air pump and placed stone right under the intake. Worked great. The only problem I have is that I wanted to program on/off with my RKE but for some reason when the RKE switches to off the air pump stays on. Trying to figure that one out.

I don't fully understand it myself but there was an earlier post in this thread about triac outlets not being able to handle such a small load from these tiny little pumps.
It needs to be plugged into a relay outlet instead.

 

[Cruz_Arias]

I don't fully understand it myself but there was an earlier post in this thread about triac outlets not being able to handle such a small load from these tiny little pumps.
It needs to be plugged into a relay outlet instead.

Grab a $10 electronic timer from Home Depot... Less headaches with the Triacs causing issues...

 

[Gomery12]

I don't fully understand it myself but there was an earlier post in this thread about triac outlets not being able to handle such a small load from these tiny little pumps.
It needs to be plugged into a relay outlet instead.

From DA site:

Channels 1 and 4 are traditional mechanical relays and while you can program


them to any of the functions the system has there are extra useful in

certain cases. Channels 2 and 3 are solid state switches and provide quiet

operation. There are some devices that have what is called a poor power

factor. It’s devices like this that can cause the solid state switches to not

release or turn the channel off. In that case the device should be moved

to the relay channels where that is not an issue.

Looks like I just need to move it to channel 1 or 4 and I should be good to go!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

the Elegant Corals, LLC Micro Scrubbing Nanobubbles had anything to do with the

You've named the bubbles after your company?

FWIW, more people might take the concept seriously if you removed some of the overhype from your facebook page.

These comments, for example, are incorrect and may turn off:

"Solubility of ions in a solution depend on electro negativity of the solute (water in this case)... water is not just water... it is a stream of life giving electricity..."

"The bubbles rubbing up against each other are like balloons or water droplets in the storm clouds... as they pass each other and rub and bump into each other, static electricity is generated... that's the difference between a stagnant dead lake and a dynamic healthy lake... moving water..."

 

[Reefahholic]

Cruz, do you have a video showing how small your micro bubbles are? I would love to see what they look like in your system.

 

[Cruz_Arias]

You've named the bubbles after your company?

FWIW, more people might take the concept seriously if you removed some of the overhype from your facebook page.

These comments, for example, are incorrect and may turn off:

"Solubility of ions in a solution depend on electro negativity of the solute (water in this case)... water is not just water... it is a stream of life giving electricity..."

"The bubbles rubbing up against each other are like balloons or water droplets in the storm clouds... as they pass each other and rub and bump into each other, static electricity is generated... that's the difference between a stagnant dead lake and a dynamic healthy lake... moving water..."

Named the Method... Kinda like the "PowerLift Technique" in the Chemical and Manufacturing industry teaching you how to "Lift Correctly"
http://www.safetytrainingnetwork.com/store/powerlift-lifting-training-that-works.

In regards to particulates including bubbles with a diaelectric as they rub up against anything including the water itself, there is a localized capacitance to the bubble itself.

In regards to solubility, if water was not polar, where there is a slight positive charge on the hydrogen end and a slight negative on the other.
For NaCl to dissolve there needs to be an electro-negative charge to water. being electrical we only look at e- as the energy carrier... because there is no such thing as an e+.