Mindstream

[LiamPM]

I dont think he has a hidden agenda. I'm not sure why you would say that. I was only implying 'nothing has changed' - it wasnt meant as a criticism. I guess I should say (again) - I personally am concerned as well.

addendum - if the owner of this site was able to get more information behind the scenes - I'd be all for it. iff that meant he decided to remove SAI as a sponsor I guess that would be his decision. Your post implies that I am some kind of cheerleader for SAI - I am not (especially recently). Just because I have an opinion that might differ from yours doesnt mean my post isnt 'family friendly'. I could make the case that your post criticizing me was 'not friendly' as well. But - I case @kzp was offended or something - I apologize

But you have implied people are posting because of some other agenda (The quote below for instance) and not just voicing their opinions on a company that may have done wrong......Apologies if im getting the wrong end of the stick but as someone literally only interested in reading the happenings (as im unable to buy even if i wanted to due to location) this comes across as you assuming someone has some hidden agenda.....Gives the impression if you haven't purchased one or going through the drama others have with this product then you should not comment because you are just commenting to damage their reputation. But thats not the case at all.....Thats the problem and the sour turning point, people can and do comment on issues regardless as to weather its a direct effect on them. Does that mean they suddenly have a mission to destroy the product, no.

You didnt respond to my questions: You just joined this site a short time ago - many of your posts seem to relate to Mindstream. Why? Its not a common product - Where did you first hear about it? What was the due diligence you did before tossing your money to them? I mean - for example - as a beginning reefer - the last thing I would be thinking about buying would be a mindstream. Forgive me for calling you out - but - most new members post pictures of their tanks, etc etc - You have only commented on Mindstream. Anyone that wants to check this out can easily look in the profile

This is an interesting little 'aside' while everyone waits for the real answer about 'whats up'. Right? But - I find it extremely odd for this site. Which is supposed to be 'friendly'. Are the people on both sides being 'friendly'? I can read my posts - I think they are. The rest seem like making a mountain of a molehill - when they have no 'dog in the fight'. Unless - they really do have a dog in the fight but its 'hidden'. Now - before someone calls me paranoid for saying that. If one looks at other threads - the only reason people post - is if they have potential interest in a product - or a critique of the product.

@Silver14SS @TheHarold @kzp - rather than repeating the same old stuff over and over - maybe it would be best for the site and the reefing community to just stop - and wait. There will be plenty of time to say 'I told you so If/when' the product is released or not. I continue to be amazed that people are debating something that neither side has any information to provide

This.....As an outsider reading you are literally insinuating he has some other reason for signing up to this forum and posting other that just voicing his opinion to a place the company pays to be a part of. You are questioning why he is posting on a forum meant for posting.
You honestly believe "calling someone out" stating they only signed up to post bad posts about a company that has taken their money and gone silent friendly? You literally told people to go through someones profile to see where they have posted because your assuming they only posted on this thread because of some malicious intent. Thats friendly to you? Maybe, just maybe, they signed up specifically to post just here because SAI are a paying sponsor and realistically should be looking at these threads.


I dont think your a cheerleader for SAI at all, in fact the complete opposite. I think you are just as pee'd off as everybody else but get the impression you are tired of reading about your money being tied up and held without any communication, repetitively being told theres a good chance this company has folded with your money in hand, but this forum is here for these exact reasons, especially when its a sponsors product. If you dont want to read the repetitive stuff, simply dont, rather than assuming its repeated to harm a business.

I respect your opinion massively on this forum and like the fact you question posts more than most, but the non "family friendly" part comes from you questioning peoples motives(a lot) when they post about this subject. Insinuating people arent just voicing their opinion and are trying to achieve something else is not being friendly. Weather you meant it like that or not, that's how its read from the majority just reading.

Correct, your opinion may differ from mine or everyone else's, and that does not mean its not family friendly, but assuming everyone's opinion that differs from yours is only to damage the company is not friendly in the slightest. You used the term "family friendly" and "agenda" before anybody else here.

 

[Eric R.]

Sorry for anyone who is still waiting on one of these. I'm in Vermont and my friend used to work for the company, and according to them Step Ahead Innovations ran out of money and laid everyone off. Apparently another Vermonter drove by the business yesterday during what should have been business hours, and it was closed with missed package notices on the door. Hope this information helps some people, I don't know anymore than this.

 

[Zoajohn]

How many units did the company oversell?

 

[Scurvy]

Sorry for anyone who is still waiting on one of these. I'm in Vermont and my friend used to work for the company, and according to them Step Ahead Innovations ran out of money and laid everyone off. Apparently another Vermonter drove by the business yesterday during what should have been business hours, and it was closed with missed package notices on the door. Hope this information helps some people, I don't know anymore than this.

Not shocking at this point but what a way to deal with your customers and supporters by not sharing that publicly. For anyone still holding out hope I hope you are able to recoup your losses.

 

[Heathd]

Sad. Was really hoping this thing could be successful. Some competition in this market would be nice.

 

[MnFish1]

But you have implied people are posting because of some other agenda (The quote below for instance) and not just voicing their opinions on a company that may have done wrong......Apologies if im getting the wrong end of the stick but as someone literally only interested in reading the happenings (as im unable to buy even if i wanted to due to location) this comes across as you assuming someone has some hidden agenda.....Gives the impression if you haven't purchased one or going through the drama others have with this product then you should not comment because you are just commenting to damage their reputation. But thats not the case at all.....Thats the problem and the sour turning point, people can and do comment on issues regardless as to weather its a direct effect on them. Does that mean they suddenly have a mission to destroy the product, no.




This.....As an outsider reading you are literally insinuating he has some other reason for signing up to this forum and posting other that just voicing his opinion to a place the company pays to be a part of. You are questioning why he is posting on a forum meant for posting.
You honestly believe "calling someone out" stating they only signed up to post bad posts about a company that has taken their money and gone silent friendly? You literally told people to go through someones profile to see where they have posted because your assuming they only posted on this thread because of some malicious intent. Thats friendly to you? Maybe, just maybe, they signed up specifically to post just here because SAI are a paying sponsor and realistically should be looking at these threads.


I dont think your a cheerleader for SAI at all, in fact the complete opposite. I think you are just as pee'd off as everybody else but get the impression you are tired of reading about your money being tied up and held without any communication, repetitively being told theres a good chance this company has folded with your money in hand, but this forum is here for these exact reasons, especially when its a sponsors product. If you dont want to read the repetitive stuff, simply dont, rather than assuming its repeated to harm a business.

I respect your opinion massively on this forum and like the fact you question posts more than most, but the non "family friendly" part comes from you questioning peoples motives(a lot) when they post about this subject. Insinuating people arent just voicing their opinion and are trying to achieve something else is not being friendly. Weather you meant it like that or not, that's how its read from the majority just reading.

Correct, your opinion may differ from mine or everyone else's, and that does not mean its not family friendly, but assuming everyone's opinion that differs from yours is only to damage the company is not friendly in the slightest. You used the term "family friendly" and "agenda" before anybody else here.

I can see where you have gotten some of your opinions. Let me clarify a couple things.

IMO there's a difference between having an 'agenda' vs. a 'hidden agenda'. In other words - what I was posting is that several people (since July) have been as negative on the comapany as they are today. They did not seem to be coming here to 'get information' or 'talk about the product' - but only to repeatedly talk about how late it was (while repeatedly saying they weren't ordering the product. To me that is an agenda. Of course it isnt a hidden one though.

As to the money part - Because at least a couple PM'd me - I decided (a couple weeks ago) - to send an inquiry with my credit card - I received an immediate provisional credit - I also had called the company well before this - to make sure there was no 'time limit' that they used in allowing a dispute. I also posted an entire thread on the topic - to help others.

So for at least a month or so - I had no worries about whether I would 'get my money back' . What I did find somewhat disappointing is the number of people posting things along the lines of 'you only have 60 days, etc. Basically saying I was either lying or just plain wrong. Despite posting the rules from the FTC (including the fact that many companies start the 'dispute clock' when delivery was promised - as compared to when the charge was made.

I already apologized for @kzp for mentioning the fact that the only topic he has posted on was the mindstream. It was an observation - not meant to be unfriendly.. In thinking about it - it probably came across in an unintended way.

BTW - I debated whether to respond to your post - I only did to point out that perhaps things don't always come across in print as intended. (On both sides of this issue) - Of course - there is now only one side on the Mindstream issue

 

[signal_4]

Sorry for anyone who is still waiting on one of these. I'm in Vermont and my friend used to work for the company, and according to them Step Ahead Innovations ran out of money and laid everyone off. Apparently another Vermonter drove by the business yesterday during what should have been business hours, and it was closed with missed package notices on the door. Hope this information helps some people, I don't know anymore than this.

Thank you ! This is really the news everyone has been waiting to hear ! Filed a return funds with my credit card Co after reading this

 

[adamsfour]

I think another sad point is there are a number of investors who invested money that is now lost. Unlike the ones who charged their purchase and now contacting their CC companies these poor folks are out of luck. This certainly doesn’t help out hobby but only hurts it. The only glimmer of hope would be if someone bought the rights as I believe they were close to making it work but needed more time to work out the kinks.

 

[fcmatt]

This really puts MACNA into perspective.

The company must have known they were on the ropes. Spent good money to go mingle at MACNA and look for investors. All the while taking discounted orders to show possible investors how hot this was.

Once back.. nothing panned out.. scrambled one more time all the while leading customers on with fake stories. They did not even bother share the real reason it failed because that is valuable information and the customers are not valuable at this point.

Sneak away and here we are.

I have to say this is a new low. Makes Vertex almost seem reasonable if my memory is correct. At least they still have a glimmer of hope... lol.

Oh well. I guess I will wait for spring to see what shakes out controller/testing wise.

 

[adamsfour]

Very good point. I had to cancel going MACNA because of the storm. I truly believe I would have drank the cool aid especially at a discount. Hopefully the legal system will prevail and bring them to justice

 

[Opus]

Very good point. I had to cancel going MACNA because of the storm. I truly believe I would have drank the cool aid especially at a discount. Hopefully the legal system will prevail and bring them to justice

They've been at the last 3 or 4 MACNA shows plus some of the other big shows the last few years. Plus a busted crowd funding attempt. If they communicated internally like they did externally, they didn't have much hope.

 

[Joe Rice]

I think another sad point is there are a number of investors who invested money that is now lost. Unlike the ones who charged their purchase and now contacting their CC companies these poor folks are out of luck. This certainly doesn’t help out hobby but only hurts it. The only glimmer of hope would be if someone bought the rights as I believe they were close to making it work but needed more time to work out the kinks.

Investors are knowingly taking a risk. It's up to them to do their due diligence and decide if the risk is worth the potential reward. As someone who once lost a good chunk of change investing in a startup, I don't feel especially bad for the investors. As an investor, you win some and you lose some.

I do feel bad for the employees who worked on the product and worked on building the company for so many years. It has to be awful to work on something for so long only to see it fail. And I'm sure many of them feel terrible that it ended on such a sour note.

And I feel bad for the hobbyists who ponied up cash and either didn't get a product or now own an expensive doorstop. Charging people for a product that wasn't ready for prime-time (or the company wasn't in a position to manufacture or support) is unconscionable and the president of the company should be ashamed.

 

[adamsfour]

I don’t totally agree with investors. If you are presented will all of facts and you invest I totally agree. But in this case it was totally BS and fraud and gave investors a false sense of the potential success.

 

[Joe Rice]

I don’t totally agree with investors. If you are presented will all of facts and you invest I totally agree. But in this case it was totally crap and fraud and gave investors a false sense of the potential success.

Perhaps that's true for the very late stage investors. But Mindstream wasn't "total crap". They clearly had a real product and real technology - even perhaps breakthrough technology. From the outside at least, it looks like it was a pretty standard startup for most of its existence. And, as someone who does invest, you know that you're never presented with all the facts - you're pretty much always presented with a best-case scenario. It's up to you to do your due diligence and come to your own conclusions.

And, of course, it's the professional investors about whom I speak. I do feel bad for any friends and family type investors.

 

[roberthu526]

Sorry for anyone who is still waiting on one of these. I'm in Vermont and my friend used to work for the company, and according to them Step Ahead Innovations ran out of money and laid everyone off. Apparently another Vermonter drove by the business yesterday during what should have been business hours, and it was closed with missed package notices on the door. Hope this information helps some people, I don't know anymore than this.

Thank You for sharing this information! I was still debating myself before Thanksgiving but finally made the decision to get my money back through credit card company. I am sure many people who paid for it are still hoping the company would deliver. Now with this information they can make up their mind and get this sorted out.
This is the most valuable information so far since MACNA!

 

[MnFish1]

I think another sad point is there are a number of investors who invested money that is now lost. Unlike the ones who charged their purchase and now contacting their CC companies these poor folks are out of luck. This certainly doesn’t help out hobby but only hurts it. The only glimmer of hope would be if someone bought the rights as I believe they were close to making it work but needed more time to work out the kinks.

The people that invest in this type of start up company are (or should be) well aware that 9/10 startups fail. There are also criteria that investors in such companies much meet (unless they were in Kickstarter - those are the people I feel sorry for)

 

[MnFish1]

I don’t totally agree with investors. If you are presented will all of facts and you invest I totally agree. But in this case it was totally crap and fraud and gave investors a false sense of the potential success.

To me this is patently ridiculous. They shipped units - people stated they were working (including at least one staff member on this site) - But - perhaps you have a better insight than I do

 

[MnFish1]

Here is an interesting article - if you havent taken action - probably best to do so - according to this;https://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/deposit-refund-bankrupt-company-1267.php

 

[roberthu526]

This really puts MACNA into perspective.

The company must have known they were on the ropes. Spent good money to go mingle at MACNA and look for investors. All the while taking discounted orders to show possible investors how hot this was.

Once back.. nothing panned out.. scrambled one more time all the while leading customers on with fake stories. They did not even bother share the real reason it failed because that is valuable information and the customers are not valuable at this point.

Sneak away and here we are.

I have to say this is a new low. Makes Vertex almost seem reasonable if my memory is correct. At least they still have a glimmer of hope... lol.

Oh well. I guess I will wait for spring to see what shakes out controller/testing wise.

I actually feel bad for the ones who were testing and promoting the product without knowing what was truly happening. I placed my order because I watched someone who had been testing the product for a while and promoted the product on his youtube channel. If he knew what was going on I am sure he would have never ever talked about it on his channel.

 

[roberthu526]

I don’t totally agree with investors. If you are presented will all of facts and you invest I totally agree. But in this case it was totally crap and fraud and gave investors a false sense of the potential success.

My wild guess is the investors were tired of pumping money in and not seeing return for 7 or 8 years and finally pulled the plug. That promoted the company to rush to production so they could have another source of cash inflow but the product wasn't even ready and they didn't even have a reliable contractor to manufacture the product. The presale was the company's last hope to keep the company running but obviously the cash was not enough to turn it around.

The way this ended is truly ugly. The company didn't even have the integrity to refund the customers who paid upfront. They didn't even announce the company was broke. I don't understand how some people could comfortably walk away with other people's money in the pocket knowing nothing was going to be delivered. Coming up with something like "overwhelming amount of orders" is just disgusting.