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MnFish1

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Sorry to be the bearing of potential bad news. But one of the replies had a link to how CC work. My reading indicates the CC company only temporarily put a hold on the charge until they get hold of MS. If they can’t recover funds from MS they reinstate the charge to you. I would contact CC company to verify.
I think you're incorrect - at least in some cases (ie I think most of the time you get your money back) - but agree with checking: https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-business-closed-customer-lost-money-03162018-story.html
 

adamsfour

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MnFish1

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The article says the same thing I said. They refund your money while they investigate. But it implies that is temporary. I plan to call my CC company and ask the what If question
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Right - it says the consumer gets their money back - and that the card issuer is the creditor.

“If you paid with a credit card, you have a little something extra in your back pocket,” said Greg McBride, chief financial analyst at Bankrate.com.

In some cases, customers don’t even have to pick up the phone. Some credit card charges can be disputed online.
For services that you paid for by credit card that weren’t performed, like the remaining six months in your yearlong gym contract, you should be able to get your money back, McBride said.
In fact, Cassandra Burke Robertson, a law professor at Case Western Reserve University, said paying with a credit card is the single most important way for a consumer to prevent a huge financial headache when a business they patronize closes.
 

ereccer

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Right - it says the consumer gets their money back - and that the card issuer is the creditor.
I agree, that's what seems to be the case based on that quote. If the card issuer becomes the creditor, it means that they have assumed the debt owed to you by the person/company that failed to deliver the product or issue the refund. The card company will work to get it back so they get the money back, but you, the purchaser, are off the hook.
 
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adamsfour

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It’s not how I read it. I read it’s only temporary and if the CC company fail to get the funds back from vendor they can reinstate the charge.
 

roberthu526

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I can confirm that all employees have been laid off.

It's a shame, I was really hoping they would turn this around.



This is the definition of a failed company. They absolutely were hoping to deliver the units. Having met and talked with several employees, no one was intentionally scamming anyone. Tech people tend to be very passionate about the technology and have rose colored glasses when it comes to estimating how ready it is.

Even under the best circumstances, ideas that seem good tend to be much harder to bring to market than anyone could predict. Especially very complex ones like this. I'll bet that's exactly what happened here.

I feel bad for the folks who bought a unit and used it for a couple months - no refunds for them, and now their unit will no longer work.

I feel bad for the kickstarter people - they're out of luck too.

I feel bad for the employees - hopefully they'll find new jobs.

This whole situation sucks.
The employees most of the time don't even know the true intention of the management team. I am not saying the management team had bad intentions from the beginning but obviously they didn't manage expectation and cash flow well enough to make this a real deal. The responsibility falls on the leaders, not the employees. In this case, the employees are also victims of bad leadership and management.
 

MnFish1

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It’s not how I read it. I read it’s only temporary and if the CC company fail to get the funds back from vendor they can reinstate the charge.
well - im ny opinion youre reading it wrong. lol:). and of course part of the reason most people pay theIR CC A fee each year- is to help cover such stuff. But time will tell. If your CC does not have a solution for this problem - my suggestion might be to get a new CC
 
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The best thing to do is call your CC company rather than debate it. They are all different.

For me, I needed to dispute a transaction after a stressful couple of months. The deal with my CC was, if you don’t receive the goods within 14 days you are entitled to your money. You had 120 days from the date of purchase (the vendor tried to string me along until this date past). The only sticking part was not whether they could get the money back, the deal was that if the seller could prove their case for keeping my money, the funds would go back. The thing is that my CC insures my transactions. Even if they couldn’t get the money I would have still gotten it from the CC. I asked them about this and they told me not to worry about that, they have their own legal to handle that.
 
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adamsfour

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Well either way someone should pursue fraud against them. Even if the CC company ends up taking the loss it hurts our hobby. The next time a starter company wants to make a breakthrough it could cause some to hesitate even if that company had a good product and good intentions. Best of luck
 

ca1ore

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I’m curious from folks that actually got and were using this device: did it actually work as claimed? Seems that it was in development hell for years. I’d not have touched one with the proverbial ten foot pole. Are probes/discs a viable approach. Good ideas are not always successful the first time around.
 
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ca1ore

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Well either way someone should pursue fraud against them.
Well, there have to be assets to claim against, particularly if the business was setup as a LLC.

Even if the CC company ends up taking the loss it hurts our hobby. The next time a starter company wants to make a breakthrough it could cause some to hesitate even if that company had a good product and good intentions.
There have been plenty of starter businesses go belly up in this hobby over the years. It’s simply the way of the world. I don’t think it has a lasting impact, at least not broadly. Maybe folks that got bitten this time will be a bit more judicious next time, but there always seem to be folks willing to take a flyer.
 

wmo168

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What I meant was - if I was one of the 7,000,000 investors (I was not) once I saw the product selling, and the razor razor blade issue working well (i.e the disks and the monitor) - I would not pull out unless - there was a problem with the product - or another company said - Hey - We'll give you xxx, xxxx.oo to just shut down. I have not clue - the product may have been horrible... IDK
True. Maybe another competitor with monitor water parameters bought the company and shut it down as this is a game changer in the industry. The key is. If you cant compete buy them out.
 
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Larry L

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I feel bad for the kickstarter people - they're out of luck too.
The Kickstarter campaign never met its goal, so nobody lost any of the money they pledged.


I’m curious from folks that actually got and were using this device: did it actually work as claimed?
I had one for quite a while, as both an alpha and beta tester. When it worked, it worked great - it's fantastic technology. But it also required super tight manufacturing tolerances for the LED sensors, the fluorescent foils, and the mechanical mechanism, which I think led to supply stream problems and lack of consistency from disk to disk (which was the main reason I didn't buy a production unit).

I'm really disappointed that it didn't make it to market for real, and I'm really disappointed in the way the company handled the rollout and subsequent fallout, but from what I know from having interacted with these people I am 100% convinced nobody was trying to scam anybody.

Hopefully the technology is not so tied up in patents that at some point someone will be able to get a similar product to market, I really think it would be a gamechanger.
 

saf1

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I’m curious from folks that actually got and were using this device: did it actually work as claimed? Seems that it was in development hell for years. I’d not have touched one with the proverbial ten foot pole. Are probes/discs a viable approach. Good ideas are at always successful the first time around.
Not a lot of threads / posts with regards to MS owners. I found that odd to be honest. I did come across one the other day of a well respected hobbyist here and in the industry - they tried to like it but it wasn't consistent for them. There are some posts but depending on what you read or say or by whom people are now trying to single out these members and say they are only adding fuel to the fire...
 

Darrell Brady

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Well either way someone should pursue fraud against them. Even if the CC company ends up taking the loss it hurts our hobby. The next time a starter company wants to make a breakthrough it could cause some to hesitate even if that company had a good product and good intentions. Best of luck
CC Company wont take the loss. The consumer will with increase rates.
 

SandJ

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Just got off the phone with our credit card company (Sams Club MasterCard). The representative said that as long as the evidence shows I did not receive the product and they rule in my favor (up to a 60 day process), I will be refunded. It does not matter if they are able to recoup their money from the company or not.
 

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