Monster difference: What new challenges come with a big tank?

[Scorpius]

Don't get me started on bonsai. I have way too many of those. lol. Any Bonsai Nut members on here?

 

[Scott's reef]

That's pretty much my exact tank. Need to pics. Where's your build thread?

I haven't started one, I need to figure out where I need to go to start it. I'm not very good at figuring this stuff out.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

I haven't started one, I need to figure out where I need to go to start it. I'm not very good at figuring this stuff out.

You can come over to mine for ideas and things Not to do

 

[Charles Zinn]

I voted water changes and water chemistry
With a smaller tank water changes may handle any chemistry problems. Learned that just keeping salinity, alk. Calcium and magnesium level and steady my not be enough
Made a move tank and all. It was a big ordeal as I've developed some health issues. New local fish store owner is so beneficial to all
MARK takes time with all hobbieists to instruct and inform
Now do Icp test once a month maybe twice and have been doing trace elements
Iy has drastically reduce coral and fish turnover. Have had softies and anemones multiply and Sps are living and starting to grow. This makes the hobby less costly and provides less heartache. I also added a calcium reactor which will be paid for within 5 months by the savings on chemicals. Still in dial in period but already saving time and providing stability.

 

[MnFish1]

Monster difference: What new challenges come with a big tank?

Do you remember the classic line from the movie Jaws: “You’re gonna need a bigger boat” or the line from the Taco Bell commercial where the chihuahua says: “Uh oh, I think I need a bigger box”? When we add a monster tank, sometimes we realize that we need much bigger pumps, a LOT more lights, and even just putting the tank in place is a whole new challenge. Just building the aquascape or doing water changes can introduce new opportunities. What is the same and what is different with monster tanks? If you’ve ever built a monster tank, planned one, or helped someone build one, what tips do you have to share or what should be avoided? Let us know in the comments below!

Photo by @gws3

Sure, virtually all tanks need flow, light, filtration, and more. Is there a point or points along the spectrum of the size of a tank where the approaches change? It would seem that there is some operational differences between taking care of a 10g all-in-one and taking care of a 5,000 gallon reef tank. At some point do the way that you create flow patterns change or maybe a massive water change is no longer a realistic solution even though it would have worked with a smaller tank? Have you found this to be true? If so, where do you think that those thresholds or transition points are between different sizes of tanks. Please share you thoughts in the discussion below!

Getting it in and out of the house.

 

[Susan Edwards]

The only thing I did not have to worry about was supporting the tank as my house is on a cement slab. Everything else, yes. Bigger tank needs thought out flow, same for lighting and filtration.

For me, I stopped doing water changes--use my awc if I feel I need to do so (usually only after medicating). I find the tank stays more stable without them, plus to do 20% on a 240g means lots of water and salt. And cost. So I prefer to do 3-5 gal daily when needed.

Bigger tanks justify control systems as well. More money in the tank and set up and livestock, you need all the help you can get! Putting in 20-25k on a big tank just for set up make it easy to justify the control system.

The other thing to consider is the size of the tank in relation to your size. I'm 5'. Everything is more difficult. Need to see if I left something on the mesh lid? Nope. Tank is 60 " tall. Can't see. Get step stool. Need to get a coral that fell at the back? Step stool and leaning over enough I have to careful not to fall in. Have to use tools as a 25" deep and 25" wide tank make many inside tank tasks difficult. Like gluing frags toward bottom of tank. That is something I did not take into consideration!!!

and placement. I put the tank in my office. 10x10. Tank is 79" long. I have less than 2 feet on each side (fun times when I need to try to get behind tank with 2 control panels on the wall). 3 feet to my desk and 2 feet behind me (closet doors open so I can scoot chair lols) Humidity so added a dehumidifyer and hooked up a pump sump to drain it to laundry room

would I do it again? Hell yeah! It's been a wild ride

 

[Jarry]

FLOW. My biggest challenge in 10.5 feet 300 gallon. As a big Tunze fan, I asked them for advice - I wanted to achieve alternating (6 hours clockwise and 6h counterclockwise) gyre flow but without using high maintenance gyre pumps. We agreed on 4pcs of Tunze Stream 3 pumps and it took me hours over 3-4 days of experimenting and consulting with Roger (Roger was very helpful, he always had some new ideas) from Tunze to setup the pumps. But - we managed to setup great gyre flow and I haven't touched the pumps since then (over a year now). The rest for me is very similar to smaller tanks I had (30 + 80 gallon), water change takes me about an hour including sump cleaning and I'm not cleaning display tank itself, only front glass using Tunze + Flipper magnets. I usually put my hands into display once in 3 months, when I have to move some growing LPS and cut the plate Montipora a Echinopora.

 

[FishTruck]

Seriously !?! I’ve had many ’hobbies’ in my life, but NEVER have I had to build a HOUSE around them! Sorry, just can’t wrap my head around this …. lol.

Putting a tank in a wall removes the footprint effect in a room.... and... finding space for a four foot wide wall is easy when it's just drafting paper - not so easy in a house already built. This is for something like 1000 gallons we are talking about in this thread. I don't see that it's too much different than a bigger garage for working on old cars or storing a boat properly, or a workshop for woodwork, I could go on -

 

[skyrne_isk]

Agreed! Living in FL our humidity is high and then toss my tank on top of it and we have to run a dehumidifier most of the year. 50% is about the lowest we see in the house and without the dehumidifiers we get up to nearly 70%.

Okay, a random question: Do you have any idea what your dehumidifier costs to run? I ran an ancient dehumidifier in our basement over the summer and my power bill went up by probably 50-75 per month!

 

[Floyd-]

Okay, a random question: Do you have any idea what your dehumidifier costs to run? I ran an ancient dehumidifier in our basement over the summer and my power bill went up by probably 50-75 per month!

Not sure off the top of my head. We dont run the two units 24/7. Maybe 2 days a week for maybe 8 hours. Its just depends how humid it gets. These units work really well to get it down to 50%. After that it takes significantly longer to squeeze out those %.
Here are the units we have: Link to Unit (2000sqft)

 

[Treefer32]

I have maintained a 340 gallon for 4 years now and the biggest thing is just mundane cost to maintain. At $200-300 a month, random things like, Chaeto grow to keep the algae turf scrubber exporting nutrients, trace elements, denitrator media (pellets, matrix rock, etc), replacement roller mat media (going through a roll every 2-3 weeks that's $50-60 a month in paper). and that's after all the equipment of purchasing the scrubbers, the large skimmer, the roller mats, etc. I spend close to $30-$60 a month on reagents, testing alk 3 times a week, phosphates and nitrates 1-2 times a week. Replacement Trace Elements, occasional bottle of bacteria to keep the de-nitrators going.

I go through a 100 sheets of nori in two months. I make my own Fish food to save $300-400 per year in Fish food. Needing things like a CO2 Scrubber and media because of Vodka dosing. Needing to replace PH probes, Heaters every so often.

I have 4 x 80 Watt T5 bulbs plus 3 AI Hydra 52s for lights. The T5 bulbs I replace every 12-13 months as they're part of my main lighting on for close to 7 -8 hours a day. ($100 a year in bulbs).

Many of these things may be done on smaller systems, but at much smaller scales. On a 40-90 gallon system a person probably wouldn't need a algae scrubber, vodka dosing, pellet reactor (similar to vodka dosing), cannister filter just packed full of matrix rock (de-nitrifaction factory), skimmer, and roller mat. Maybe 2 of these at most.

This is all on top of the cheap stuff like making my own Soda Ash for Alk dosing (Baked Baking Soda) = $12 per year, a 7 lb bag of calcium chloride from BRS, and Mangesium sulfite and Magnesium Chloride from BRS - $30-40 per year (at most).

This is all in addition to the manual labor of cleaning the glass every 3-4 days, Taking apart and cleaning all 4 gyres. Soaking in citric acid for a few hours. Taking a part and cleaning the 2 MP 40s. Cleaning the skimmer occasionally. Cleaning the filter media every 4-6 months, cleaning the algae scrubber ever 6-10 days.

Every month I have to make a decision, do I need more random supplies or am I ahead enough I can maybe get more livestock?

I don't mind most of the work other than scraping the glass. I wish that were less time consuming. Everything takes more time and money on larger tanks. I've been wanting to get a smaller tank for my office, but I quite honestly don't know if I want to take time and additional cost to maintain it. The large take takes all my money. LOL.

 

[Dom]

Monster difference: What new challenges come with a big tank?

@Peace River

This is a GREAT question! I'm finishing up on a 125 gallon build which took longer than expected as I had many questions and little in the way of answers.

Weight: I was intimidated by the weight of the tank that I would be supporting. This was a tank that would be in the 2000 pound range and in a room whose floor was raised 28 inches above a concrete slab. When I post my build thread, you will see the lengths I went through to support the floor.

Lighting: Previously, the depth of my tanks didn't exceed 12 inches, so (2) Current USA LOOP IC Pro for a total of 4 fixtures wouldn't be enough to light a new tank whose depth is 20 inches. So I added a AI Hydra 32 to the center section and placed light hungry corals in the center and placed Zoas on the ends where they would be sustained by the LOOP Pro lights. But I'm not expecting much new growth due to the LOOP IC lack of penetration on a tank of that depth.

Water Changes: I am faithful to 20% weekly water changes. With a total of 145 total water volume, this comes to 29 gallons weekly. I've increased mechanical filtration and have implemented a dosing plan to maintain element levels. I won't be doing much in the way of water changes.

Temperature: It isn't enough to keep the tank warm. 300 watts wasn't enough to keep the tank at temp. I doubled to 600 watts in the form of (2) 300 watt titanium heaters.

In the end, ignorance is bliss. Had I thought of all these things before I Purchased the tank, I probably wouldn't have purchased the tank!

 

[RichReef]

In today's world ........ Quality would be the difference. Who knows where the materials are coming from.

The amount of stories I hear today about tank failure seems a lot higher than before. That could have it's own reasons though. More access to information. More people on the hobby forums. ect.

I am not limited to reef forums. Freshwater and planted tank hobbyists are seeing the same thing.

I was never afraid of a tank failure in my early years. I have metal rimmed tanks that are an easy 40 plus years old holding water. One of them even has a slate bottom. Still holding water.

This is a new fear for me and obviously the larger the tank the more fear there is.

 

[Dom]

In today's world ........ Quality would be the difference. Who knows where the materials are coming from.

The amount of stories I hear today about tank failure seems a lot higher than before. That could have it's own reasons though. More access to information. More people on the hobby forums. ect.

I am not limited to reef forums. Freshwater and planted tank hobbyists are seeing the same thing.

I was never afraid of a tank failure in my early years. I have metal rimmed tanks that are an easy 40 plus years old holding water. One of them even has a slate bottom. Still holding water.

This is a new fear for me and obviously the larger the tank the more fear there is.

I never worry about such failures with rimmed tanks... even if they were 50 years old.

 

[nuxx]

FLOW. My biggest challenge in 10.5 feet 300 gallon. As a big Tunze fan, I asked them for advice - I wanted to achieve alternating (6 hours clockwise and 6h counterclockwise) gyre flow but without using high maintenance gyre pumps. We agreed on 4pcs of Tunze Stream 3 pumps and it took me hours over 3-4 days of experimenting and consulting with Roger (Roger was very helpful, he always had some new ideas) from Tunze to setup the pumps. But - we managed to setup great gyre flow and I haven't touched the pumps since then (over a year now). The rest for me is very similar to smaller tanks I had (30 + 80 gallon), water change takes me about an hour including sump cleaning and I'm not cleaning display tank itself, only front glass using Tunze + Flipper magnets. I usually put my hands into display once in 3 months, when I have to move some growing LPS and cut the plate Montipora a Echinopora.

Tank looks great!!!

My tank was 10 feet and I used two huge returns and 6 oversized powerheads in the tank. Think my flow was decent. Also wrote all kinds of crazy random flow programs for the Apex.

You know since I had an Achilles and Achilles Hybrid, the tank HAD to be a surge zone

This was one of the more laid back flow programs I believe. The heavier ones would get some splash out the openings.

 

[Piscans]

another challenge i have honestly, is motivation, i wouldnt want a giant reef tank when i could have a big freshwater tank for 1/10 the cost with awesome fish.

 

[o2manyfish]

I ran a 400g display tank for almost 17 years with a total system volume that sometimes got as high as 1700g with additional frag tanks.

I then moved from the 400g to a 560g tank. Which was beautiful - but with dims of 120x30x36t I couldn't reach 1/2 way into the tank. Just feeding the tank took a step stool.

We just upped the 560g to a 750g tank 3 months ago - New Dims 120x48x30. Being our tank only has access from the 3 sides and the back is up against the wall - Reaching the back of the tank was going to be an issue. So in working with Titan Aquatic Exhibits - they engineered the top of the tank so the cross braces are strong enough to support my super substantial girth to lay across so I can reach the back of the tank.

Currently my system volume in 1500g. The 750g is the only part of the system in the house - All the other gallonage is outside. We are in So Cal - But just last night it hit 30 degrees and I won't tell you how much it cost to run out 9000watts of heaters.

Having run a substantial system for several decades I will tell you there are some huge benefits. But you have to be able to accept the costs. We installed a new Roller Mat from MRC - Over $2k - But so far the roll has lasted over 3 months and still doesn't need to be changed. We spent a fortune on a Dastaco EXt 9 Calc Rx. But it only requires big maintenance once a year - And peri pump tubing every 3 months - And a 50lb CO2 tank every 3 months.

When I buy salt I buy 800g at a time - because that's the max that Amazon will deliver to my door step. We don't do water changes, but we are always losing water working on the outside tanks and salt gets added irregularly.

You start to learn that saving money isn't always saving money. I loved Dolphin and Dart pumps - But after pumps continuosly losing seals and blowing out a sump at an inoppurtune time - You learn you aren't saving that much by what its costing you in lost time, materials, and livestock at risk. So you end up with a pair of Abyzz pumps.

But if you can bear the costs, which seems to come in waves, - if you consider $200 a month in just fish food not part of the wave - There are some benefits to a big system.

The system is stable. You monitor the basics and everything stays in line. If something were to get out of line dosing could be expensive and challenging on 1500g of water - But after having done ICP tests for over 7 years outside of Potassium and Magnesium there has never been any major dosing needed.

With a lot of automation - when my Dad had a heart attack a few years back I walked out the door for 10 weeks. I cam home once to change the co2 tank (which back then was a 20lb and good for 4-5weeks). Other than that - my wife fed the fish and the system did great no losses. Not many small tanks could go even 4 weeks with hands off - let alone 10 weeks.

Other than wiping the algae off the display tank panels, I can put as little or as much time as I want into the tank. There are always things that need attention. But the main stuff if pretty darn steady. And if something pops up in life, I can avoid the tank for weeks at a time without any pre-preparation.

But it is a lot of money. No way around that. For the 750g we already had all the equipment. But just running the plumbing across the patio, underground and up to the tank costs more than the majority of people pay for their first systems.

And after having a custom built steel stand - which I was proud of the cost budgeting of and the being involved with the design and construction. I was shocked by the cost to do the cabinetry work on the stand to finish it. A cost which would easily upgrade the majority of people's systems.

For flow in the tank as much as I love Tunze Stream 3s - It's just too much water for them to really move. So step in Panta Rhei Hydrowizard 63 and not 1 but (2) Abyzz Flow Canon AFC-150. Now I can move all the water in the tank with just 3 low maintenance pumps. Two pumps which have a 10 year warranty.

And the lighting, if we were getting a new tank it was the right time to update the lights- especially if the week you ordered your new tank was the week Ecotech announced it's G6 lights - So we just had to order 12 G630 Pros.

And once all that was done --- Couldn't sit with an empty tank - It was time to fill it up. And while we have been busy shopping for the first few months and have a good start at seeding the tank - there is still lots of room to fill in empty spaces.

When moving a big tank you can't always rely on your beer drinking reefer buddies to help get your tank into the house:

Of course your lights should go up and down remotely:

Ya gotta get water to and from the tank:

Over 1200lbs of live rock:

And a few months later you end up with this:

You can check out the tank live on it's webcam - www.o2manyfish.com - Check out the PTZ controls - Pick a coral and zoom in to the polyp level - Lights are on after 4pm PST

Dave B

 

[Reef Altitude]

The biggest issue is figuring out how to balance the cost of buying many of everything. Many lights, many power heads, many pumps, many heaters etc. Another key point was considering amperage for the circuit. With hundreds of watts of lighting and heating not to mention pumps your current draw becomes a real thing. You do not want to be pulling 13 amps on a 15 amp circuit and turn on the lights and the TV everything trips.

Now that its here, my biggest mental adjustment is that it will be a BIG deal if we ever have to move.

 

[1979fishgeek]

I found it easier to maintain, but cost is always a issue because you always need so much more!

 

[nuxx]

The biggest issue is figuring out how to balance the cost of buying many of everything. Many lights, many power heads, many pumps, many heaters etc. Another key point was considering amperage for the circuit. With hundreds of watts of lighting and heating not to mention pumps your current draw becomes a real thing. You do not want to be pulling 13 amps on a 15 amp circuit and turn on the lights and the TV everything trips.

Now that its here, my biggest mental adjustment is that it will be a BIG deal if we ever have to move.

LOL I was buying equipment and livestock at wholesale by the end and I was still having issues trying to explain the purchases to my wife lol