My battle with Ich

[IanMauger]

I had unintentionally introduced Ich into my reef on what I can only assume was a piece of coral almost 8 months ago. Unable to completely QT the entire community (breaking down the tank was not an option, so much money, time, and resources went into the coral colonies). Breaking down the entire system just couldn't happen. The tank residents were Purple Tang, Yellow Eye Kole, Clown, Blue Damsel, 6-line wrasse, and a Royal Gramma. Having limited options I began to dose Polyp Lab Medic and completed the entire 20 day regimen. While trying to bolster the fish health. I did end up losing the Kole Tang and Royal Gramma. The Purple Tang was in rough shape, but he began to improve as with all the other inhabitants. Half way through the treatment of Polyp Lab Medic I did purchase a 24w UV sterilizer and have been running it continuously 24/7 since purchased.

Fast forward 2 months ago. I continued bolstering my fish by providing plenty of variety in fresh foods. LRS Reef Frenzy, Mysis, Brine, New Spectrum pellets, and Nori which I would rotate and soak the Mysis or Brine is Aquaforest vitamins. Never used garlic or any other type of enhancer. After not seeing a single speck or behavioral sign of Ich I decided to take the chance of introducing a new fish. After spending 3 weeks in QT and in good health and a theraputic copper treatment, I introduced a Clownfish into my main display. Since then the clowns have been courting and laying eggs, no signs of Ich or any other parasite. Since I was really upset about losing my Kole Tang, I decided to take my chances again. I purchased a new Kole who just finished his 3 weeks in QT with a copper treatment and introduced last week. So far no spots or signs of parasites. Everyone is eating voraciously.

Now I am not saying I cured or eradicated my tank just yet, but I am highly confident that some the techniques I used surely helped. I can't even credit Polyp Lab Medic because I seemed to cause more issues then anything, while its possible it may have helped I don't believe this is what caused me to win the battle (and hopefully the war).

In medicine, the sole purpose of vaccination is for immunity. Not only personal immunity, but herd immunity. This is how we as humans were able to eradicate Smallpox, Polio, and Measles (unfortunately due to disinfo some are coming back because do to an anti-vax movement). So, like a sick person I used the power of a well balanced diet, vitamins, and easing any stressors that may have a negative affect on the immune system. Coupled with the use of a high wattage sterilizer I may have been able to ruin the cycle enough to kill off the parasite. That being said, the 2 newer fish I added are still being carefully watched. Hopefully I was able to eliminate Ich or at very least knock it back so much that its virulence is minimal.

 

[jsker]

Have you tried metroplex? If not, dose metroplex with seacheme's focus with your frozen. The focus binds the antibiotic/metroplex to the food and also feed the AF vitamins mixed into the food. That should do the trick. This is the way I have treated in the past successfully. I also use vitamin C for the immune systems of the fish. dose this for a minimum of a week.

I my experience ich comes and goes due to stress more that anything. The stress could be due to even to many water changes.

 

[Gweeds1980]

Worms!! You need to feed worms... seriously. If you're intending to go down the route of an immune tank, then worms is the answer... just ask @PaulB. That and fresh shellfish, with guts intact.

Good luck... I've been kinda headed down that route too as didn't want to take down my system following ich. It's only been a month or so, but so far so good... no losses at all, no recurrence of ich.

I feed live blackworm twice daily and at least 2 fresh (or frozen fresh) mussels daily. I also feed nori sheets, pellets and flake, although these last 3 have zero to do with immunity.

I've added two fish since starting this regimen. I still QT but I don't prophylactically treat, just observe and get onto the same feeding regime. The two fish were a coral beauty and a green wrasse. 14 days in QT and no signs of any infections, straight into the QT and both have been there around a week and a half with no signs of any infection.

I appreciate that this is very early days, but I'm determined to see this through and I'm sure it will work. I'm a biologist by education so it makes perfect sense to me. Plus as Paul B says, these fish are subject to these pathogens and parasites in their natural environment so have evolved an immune system to deal with them. It's just when we reduce the efficacy of that immune system by removing the exposure that we then have problems down the line.

Good luck!

I may even write my journey up in a separate thread now

 

[Gweeds1980]

It's worth adding that I have acanthurus and other tangs in residence.

 

[IanMauger]

I certainly hope total immunity coupled with the UV and lower stress is what will eradicate this menace. Thanks for the tip with the live blackworms, I am going to purchase some and incorporate them into my feeding regimen. As I said, so far the new arrivals are eating, strong, and enjoying their new home. Fingers crossed because I still am reluctant to say I'm out of the woods yet.

 

[Humblefish]

Immunity is certainly possible if the resident fish can withstand whatever pathogen is afflicting them. Many of these fish will remain asymptomatic carriers, but that also does mean the pathogen's numbers will remain low. Each new fish must pass the same "trial by fire" in order to acquire immunity, or they themselves may introduce a new disease/strain into the aquarium for the "resident fish" to deal with.

While not impossible, the odds are very much stacked against this working out in the long-term. Which is why we only see Paul and a handful of others professing natural immunity. These are the lucky ones, or those with years of experience utilizing many different methods to keep the overall number of parasites down, while simultaneously boosting the fishes’ immune systems to deal with the parasites that survived. I call this "disease management" and if it works for you, then I say great.

However, we must compare those few "lucky ones" to the thousands of people who did not quarantine and then experience disaster, that this forum and others now see each year. ;Wideyed For these, the odds did not work out in their favor or they lacked the skills required to be successful at disease management. Neither option - quarantine or disease management - is 100% successful because nothing in life happens 100% of the time.

Having done both, I personally feel proper quarantine has a higher success rate (in the long run) than disease management. But the worst thing you can do is hope & pray. Pick one - quarantine or disease management - and learn everything you can about how to best implement it.

 

[IanMauger]

Immunity is certainly possible if the resident fish can withstand whatever pathogen is afflicting them. Many of these fish will remain asymptomatic carriers but that does keep the pathogen's numbers low. Each new fish added must pass the same "trial by fire" in order to acquire immunity, and they themselves may introduce a new disease/strain into the aquarium for the "resident fish" to deal with.

While not impossible, the odds are very much stacked against this working out in the long-term. Which is why we only see Paul and a handful of others professing natural immunity. These are the lucky ones, or those with years of experience utilizing many different methods to keep the overall number of parasites down, while simultaneously boosting the fishes’ immune systems to deal with the parasites that survived. I call this "disease management" and if it works for you, then I say great.

However, we must compare those few "lucky ones" to the thousands of people who did not quarantine and then experience disaster, that this forum and others now see every year. ;Wideyed For these, the odds did not work out in their favor or they lacked the skills required to be successful at disease management. Neither option - quarantine or disease management - is 100% successful because nothing in life happens 100% of the time.

Having done both, I personally feel proper quarantine has a higher success rate (in the long run) than disease management. But the worst thing you can do is hope & pray. Pick one - quarantine or disease management - and learn everything you can about how to best implement it.

Absolutely. In this hobby, I wish we wouldn't see these threads because a lot of is so preventable.

Think about it, an average saltwater fish aside from the typical clown or damsel will run you anywhere between $30-60 with some fish running over $100+. There really is no excuse in my opinion for not QTing. A simple 20g tank during the Petco dollar per gallon sale, a simple filter, the seachem ammonia badge, thermometer, cheap heater and cheap HOB filter/sponge filter will run you less then $100. For the investment we made in hobby this is peanuts compared to the horrible outcome. I am now QTing all my corals now too since the introduction of ich on what I only can assume was a coral frag.

 

[Paul B]

Which is why we only see Paul and a handful of others professing natural immunity.

Yes, there is me and Atoll with his 36 year old tank. We found a "different" way which the fish seem to approve of.

There is only one reason I don't quarantine, and that is because I like to argue with Humblefish.

Every year when my reef is another year older he grits his teeth, that is the reason his front teeth are all ground down. :mad:

 

[4FordFamily]

It's worth adding that I have acanthurus and other tangs in residence.

Which acanthurus tangs and for how long?

 

[4FordFamily]

Immunity is certainly possible if the resident fish can withstand whatever pathogen is afflicting them. Many of these fish will remain asymptomatic carriers, but that also does mean the pathogen's numbers will remain low. Each new fish must pass the same "trial by fire" in order to acquire immunity, or they themselves may introduce a new disease/strain into the aquarium for the "resident fish" to deal with.

While not impossible, the odds are very much stacked against this working out in the long-term. Which is why we only see Paul and a handful of others professing natural immunity. These are the lucky ones, or those with years of experience utilizing many different methods to keep the overall number of parasites down, while simultaneously boosting the fishes’ immune systems to deal with the parasites that survived. I call this "disease management" and if it works for you, then I say great.

However, we must compare those few "lucky ones" to the thousands of people who did not quarantine and then experience disaster, that this forum and others now see each year. ;Wideyed For these, the odds did not work out in their favor or they lacked the skills required to be successful at disease management. Neither option - quarantine or disease management - is 100% successful because nothing in life happens 100% of the time.

Having done both, I personally feel proper quarantine has a higher success rate (in the long run) than disease management. But the worst thing you can do is hope & pray. Pick one - quarantine or disease management - and learn everything you can about how to best implement it.

Well said. I too practiced ich management for a decade with relative success -- still lost more fish than I should have (I know that now because I can benchmark my "success" against proper QT results)

 

[Gweeds1980]

Which acanthurus tangs and for how long?

An OST, it was the third fish into the tank 12 months ago.

 

[Paul B]

I call this "disease management" and if it works for you, then I say great.

Me and the fish call it, "Natural Fish Immunity".

The handful of tanks that use this method are the oldest tanks in the hobby. Just an observation. (But Humble will disagree. I just know it. )

 

[Humblefish]

Me and the fish call it, "Natural Fish Immunity".

The handful of tanks that use this method are the oldest tanks in the hobby.

Unfortunately, many who attempted to duplicate these methods are now out of the hobby. Why it works for some, but ends in disaster for others I do not know.

 

[Paul B]

I do know, they did it wrong.
Some people think they can just throw fish in their tank, feed what they perceive to be good food because there is a pretty fish on the cover and it is expensive. Then they wonder why everything is covered in spots.
I once spent 20 minutes trying to teach someone about the proper food to get his fish spawning and healthy, then after he thought about it a while he said, so then I can just get really good flakes and feed that. :mad:

 

[4FordFamily]

An OST, it was the third fish into the tank 12 months ago.

Those are a rare exception - many can handle ich management systems. The odd sohal tangs can occasionally as well.