My Forever Tank - Plan/Build/Maintain Thread

[Bill Amaro]

Right hand side Aquascape. Have 2 more to build which will occupy the left 4 feet of the tank. This one has the joints mortared, but I have not added sand to cover the joints... Will do all 3 at once since I think it will be a very messy job. Left side of the arch is not connected yet... will glue that once I have it in the tank.

Tried to make sure I had some ledges and caves which don't show up too well in the pics

Took me about 8 hours to build this, but a lot of that time was sitting there staring at it, trying to figure out where the next piece goes. For me, I never worked more than an hour at a time, so everything could "cure" before I moved on and I could think about where the next set of rocks were going.

This took 1 x 10oz of BRS glue, 2 x 2OZ bottles of glue accelerator (Insta-Set) and about 70% of an EMarco-400 Mortar container. My estimate is that there is about 25-30lbs of rock.

Definitely helps that my tank is still 6-8 weeks out, so I don't feel rushed to complete it.

 

[Bill Amaro]

For return pumps, after much research I am leaning toward 1 x COR-20 and 1 x COR-15.

My overflow is rated for 2400 GPH and I am building a custom sump (40G Breeder) that will allow me to have some water flow thru all compartments in the sump, while the remainder would flow thru the mechanical filter and directly into the return chamber. This would allow me to increase my planned tank turn-over higher than 6X.

The COR-20 will move water from the sump to the 2 display tank returns. I believe a COR-15 could handle the load, but I need a stand-alone pump as I won't be moving my Apex over for a couple of months from my old tank while the new tank cycles.

The COR-15 will be used to push water thru my 25W UV to a 3rd display tank return.

I am running an APEX EL, so there is a tight integration via fusion which I really like. I also like the real-time checks of devices Fusion provides (also run two WAVs in my 90, will be running 3 on the new 150 tank).

My plan is to use the programming language to auto set the 2 pumps so that for 6 hours everyday, the flow thru the UV is high for Algae & Bacteria control and the other 18 hours for Protozoa Bacteria control with the COR-20 adjusted to match the flow of the COR-15 for a consistent return flow.

While there are other pumps out there, because I have an Apex EL, I would have to buy a VDM module which adds to the cost. Also, using the COR, I am able to free up 2 sockets on my Energy Bar (which I have 2 ) for other devices.

Comments and thoughts are always welcomed...

 

[Bill Amaro]

I have decided to drop the refugium and add an algae scrubber instead. Never had great luck with the refugium on my 90. Since I will have a decent sized Nitrate Destroyer, I am looking for the algae scrubber for the removal of ammonia, ammonium, nitrite, phosphate, metals and CO2 mostly. From what I have read, people have had great luck in controlling algae in the DT using one of these.

I plan on building a custom algae scrubber using my 3D printer and powering it with .
ReefBreeders Pico Refugium LED (already purchased it, so I want to use it). This LED has an array of five 660nm Deep Red and one 450nm Royal Blue LEDs and is good for up to 12 x 12.

I plan on running a stand-alone pump so I can fine tune it to 35GPH per inch of screen which is the recommendation.

Will post some build pics once I start the build (this is one of my last build projects).

 

[Bill Amaro]

Here is my first pass of my NSA Aquascape for my 150Gal "Forever Tank". Hard to tell from the pic, but it is about 5" long and 12" wide (tank is 72 L x 18W X 24H). I still need to add sand to the mortar joints, but ran out of mortar.

I am sure there will be some modifications once I add it to the tank.

I have been told, the construction of the tank has been started, so hopefully within the next 4 weeks it will show up at my door.

 

[Bill Amaro]

Here is my first pass of my NSA Aquascape for my 150Gal "Forever Tank". Hard to tell from the pic, but it is about 5" long and 12" wide (tank is 72 L x 18W X 24H). I still need to add sand to the mortar joints, but ran out of mortar.

I am sure there will be some modifications once I add it to the tank.

I have been told, the construction of the tank has been started, so hopefully within the next 4 weeks it will show up at my door.

The dimensions are 60" long by 12" wide with the max height being 18"

 

[xAndrewx]

I really like the aquascape!

 

[Bill Amaro]

I really like the aquascape!

Thanks.. still a work in progress. Really need to get it in the tank (when it shows up) to see what it looks like

 

[Bill Amaro]

As I work on my custom sump, I am trying to decided on my 1st level mechanical filtration.

On my current 90, I started out with no 1st level filtration and saw a lot of detritus floating in my tank.

I added a filter sock, but they clogged up pretty quick and found changing them out was painful as they were in the far back corner of the sump and getting them out was a chore. Wife was not happy watching me wash them in the washer.

My next attempt was to 3D print filter floss cups and a holder which is what I am currently using now. Easier to change out than the filter socks, but within 3 or 4 days, the top layer of floss compacts and I am not sure I am filtering as well as it should.

On the new 150, I am configuring the custom sump (40Gal Breeder) with a few different chambers. At the back of the sump I have one chamber that is 4" x 20". The 4 drains (2 active, 2 emergency) will flow into this chamber.

Water from this chamber flows over the chamber front into my mechanical filtration chamber. That chamber is 5" x 20" at this point, but could be reduced to 4" x 20"

My current thought is to build a DIY (love having a 3D printer and designing stuff like this) rollermat filtration system. I would print supports so that the full 20" inches would be covered in rollermat fleece with no sagging over that distance.

My thought is that with such a large fleece area, I can get some decent flow thru the mechanical filtration as required.

My initial build would be manual advancement, but if it works as expected, I will then add some automation to it down the road.


Based on my research so far, it seems many people use Coolant Filter Paper instead of fleece rollermats available from the reef supply stores. Just wondering if anyone would like to mention a brand of Coolant Filter Paper they have used. Also, if you have used it, have you ever taken a larger role and made several smaller widths from it by cutting it.

The reviews on the reef supply stores seem to have a current theme that the replacement rolls are not as good as the original and a few have mentioned using Coolant Filter Paper as a replacement, hence my previous statement. Anyone have experience with a rollermat brand they find works really well.

Thanks...

 

[Bepis]

I went with a 72”x 24 x24 also with a closed-loop in a Vectra l1 and it comes out at each of the 4 corners. Pro tip for a close loop, I don’t put the intake on the bottom of the tank rather on the wall since if there is a leak it can only go down to the intake. Algae scrubbers are really in right now so good job. Depending on your corals you are going to need a powerhead or gyre for additional flow. Also remember perfect symmetry for aquascaping isn’t always what makes it look good, reefs are usually asymmetrical so keep that in mind. If you need any advice on stocking or lighting I can help. I am following this thread so just give a shout!
Good start, it’s looking good.

 

[Bill Amaro]

I went with a 72”x 24 x24 also with a closed-loop in a Vectra l1 and it comes out at each of the 4 corners. Pro tip for a close loop, I don’t put the intake on the bottom of the tank rather on the wall since if there is a leak it can only go down to the intake. Algae scrubbers are really in right now so good job. Depending on your corals you are going to need a powerhead or gyre for additional flow. Also remember perfect symmetry for aquascaping isn’t always what makes it look good, reefs are usually asymmetrical so keep that in mind. If you need any advice on stocking or lighting I can help. I am following this thread so just give a shout!
Good start, it’s looking good.

I would have loved to get a 24 deep, but it just didn't fit in the space, so it is 72"x24"x18 (WxHxD)

My overflow is drilled at the top, so no drains at the bottom of my tank (that always made me nervous about my current 90).

Hard to tell from the pictures I posted but I did use the "Rule of 3rds". Really need to wait to get it in the tank to see what modifications I need to make it more natural.

Looking forward to designing my algae scrubber, another fun 3D printing project. Had a refugium in my 90, but it really never took off like I thought it would.

As far as powerheads, I plan on having 2 or 3 Neptune WAVs. I have them in my 90 and I really like them. People like to bash Neptune, but I think their products are pretty good, plus I run APEX and Trident, so I think Fusion does a good job showing you tank parameters and potential hardware problems.

Lights are Reef Breeders, have a 48" on my 90 and just purchased a 24 to cover all 6 feet.

Starting to give stocking some thought. My current 90 is a clown harem with a blue hippo tang and a rabbit face foxfish. Not sure I will go with the clown harem theme in the 150. Looking forward to chatting about stocking options.

Thanks for your interest...

 

[Bill Amaro]

As I work on my custom sump, I am trying to decided on my 1st level mechanical filtration.

On my current 90, I started out with no 1st level filtration and saw a lot of detritus floating in my tank.

I added a filter sock, but they clogged up pretty quick and found changing them out was painful as they were in the far back corner of the sump and getting them out was a chore. Wife was not happy watching me wash them in the washer.

My next attempt was to 3D print filter floss cups and a holder which is what I am currently using now. Easier to change out than the filter socks, but within 3 or 4 days, the top layer of floss compacts and I am not sure I am filtering as well as it should.

On the new 150, I am configuring the custom sump (40Gal Breeder) with a few different chambers. At the back of the sump I have one chamber that is 4" x 20". The 4 drains (2 active, 2 emergency) will flow into this chamber.

Water from this chamber flows over the chamber front into my mechanical filtration chamber. That chamber is 5" x 20" at this point, but could be reduced to 4" x 20"

My current thought is to build a DIY (love having a 3D printer and designing stuff like this) rollermat filtration system. I would print supports so that the full 20" inches would be covered in rollermat fleece with no sagging over that distance.

My thought is that with such a large fleece area, I can get some decent flow thru the mechanical filtration as required.

My initial build would be manual advancement, but if it works as expected, I will then add some automation to it down the road.


Based on my research so far, it seems many people use Coolant Filter Paper instead of fleece rollermats available from the reef supply stores. Just wondering if anyone would like to mention a brand of Coolant Filter Paper they have used. Also, if you have used it, have you ever taken a larger role and made several smaller widths from it by cutting it.

The reviews on the reef supply stores seem to have a current theme that the replacement rolls are not as good as the original and a few have mentioned using Coolant Filter Paper as a replacement, hence my previous statement. Anyone have experience with a rollermat brand they find works really well.

Thanks...

Found this thread that appears to answer many of my questions:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/comparing-filter-rollers-your-reviews-wanted.457947/

 

[Bepis]

Have you looked into the Klir- DP-4
You can just place them straight into filter sock holders

 

[Bill Amaro]

Have you looked into the Klir- DP-4
You can just place them straight into filter sock holders

I have spent hours looking at all of them and have decided that I can build a custom one that fits the custom spaces in my sump. I went from working 60 to 70 hours a week to retirement, so I have the time to design and test equipment that I find interesting. It keeps me busy and gives me a new skill to add to my list and a sense of accomplishment.

Right now on my design/build list is my RollerMat Filter Device, Algae scrubber, Media Reactor Stack, Nitrate Destroyer and custom return nozzles for my display tank.

My 90 gal has been up for over 2 years, so I am by no means an expert, but I have learned a lot of what not to do with that tank and the internet has a wealth of information.

 

[Bill Amaro]

My new tank showed up yesterday... Now I can get accurate measurements for building my stand...

 

[Nick Steele]

Very well thought out! Sorry you have mainly been talking to yourself here but you are making progress!

While I don’t have a ton of larger tank experience I have now worked in marine aquaculture for 2 years and have had my 20G reef for a year. So I have some insights.

As for the whole sock/floss topic have you giving any thought to doing just a floss rack? Something like InTank’s but made to you specs. You could go over top chamber A into chamber B into the floss and down under in chamber C. I know this will be the route I likely go when I upgrade will just have to find a way to implement it as wife already has put a NO GO on a 3D printer lol.

Something like this but longer and once or twice a week you can just change out the section of floss.

 

[Bill Amaro]

Very well thought out! Sorry you have mainly been talking to yourself here but you are making progress!

While I don’t have a ton of larger tank experience I have now worked in marine aquaculture for 2 years and have had my 20G reef for a year. So I have some insights.

As for the whole sock/floss topic have you giving any thought to doing just a floss rack? Something like InTank’s but made to you specs. You could go over top chamber A into chamber B into the floss and down under in chamber C. I know this will be the route I likely go when I upgrade will just have to find a way to implement it as wife already has put a NO GO on a 3D printer lol.

Something like this but longer and once or twice a week you can just change out the section of floss.

Thanks for your reply... I actually have something like that in my current 90. While it works, I find that the top layer of floss gets clogged pretty quickly. I also find that sometimes I pack the floss too tight and other times not tight enough, hard to be consistent. I have decided on a a DYI custom 3D printed rollermat system. The way my sump is setup, I can have a 4" x 20" chamber that my drain chamber will flow into. I have just started designing it, but I am thinking I will end up with somewhere around 14"-16" of filter area which is a pretty decent size. Once, I verify it works as I expect, I will add some automation, so it rolls forward as required via a motor. Based on the research I have done, most people love their rollermat devices and they appear to go a really good job of mechanical filtration.

I am sure some are wondering "buy vs build". I like the ability to customize solutions and I have the time since retirement to spend on design. Don't let anyone tell you DYI 3D printing is cheaper than buying. I usually build 3 or 4 prototypes to test, so when you add in the cost of materials and your time, sometimes it ends up more expensive than buying one off the shelf.

One of my design points is to automate as much as I can. Once, this virus is over, we are going to start to travel again, so the ability to leave my system on auto-pilot will be a good thing. I am trying keep this as a hobby and not make it into a lifestyle. Been married a long time and the first time I tell my wife we can't travel because I have to hold my tank's hand, will not go over well...

Really appreciate your comments. Based on your comment of talking to myself, I am fine with that. I started this thread for 2 reasons, one, so I can document my thought process and to help others think about stuff that they don't know they don't know. I am guilty as many, spend hours reading these threads, but very seldom comment.

 

[Bill Amaro]

Time to start to think about a stocking plan as I would like to quarantine all the new fish I will be adding. I don't plan on quarantining any of the current fish I have in my 90 when they move over.

My current 90 was setup to be a Clown Harem tank. As much as I like clowns, I believe I will be moving away from that theme and into more of a mixed reef/mixed fish.

Some of my experiences with the clown harem tank:

Nems are cool, but they frustrate me at times. My BTAs always seem to move next to some piece of coral and next thing I know, it has killed the coral.

If you have Nems, you need to have Nem guards on your power heads. The power head Nem guards clog up pretty quickly and when they do, it really affects the flow in the tank.

Also, with a clown harem, you need to feed (I feed 3X a day) to prevent aggression. Right now I am fighting a GHA outbreak which I am pretty sure is due to my feeding schedule. The sump in my 90 can't handle all the excess food breaking down, so I am building a pretty robust nutrient export system for the new tank so I can reduce the changes of a GHA outbreak.

Right now my thought is to move 1-3 pairs of clowns from my 90 to my new 150. The remaining will be go back to the LFS or some other reefer. Not really sure how many pairs of clowns will actually work. I am hoping that since they coexisted in my 90 for over a year together, 3 pairs will coexist.. Will have to see.

In addition to the clowns I will move over my Foxface Rabbitfish and my Blue Hippo Tang.

So I would like to start with what utility fish other hobbyist think would work well in the 150.


So far, here are my thoughts

For sand bed - utility fish are:

2 x Engineer Gobys (I think these guys are pretty cool)
1 x Sand Sifting Goby (I hear a Diamond Goby is a good choice, but really open for recommendations on this and can you have more than 1 in this size tank?)
Multiple crabs and snails and possibly sand shifting starfish once the tank is fully established.


For algae - utility fish:

1 x Lawnmower Blenny
I am counting on my RabbitFish and Tang to help out here)

For pests - utility fish:

2 x wrasses (heard 6 lines can be aggressive, what are your favorites and colorful).

What am I missing?

As from as cool fish for the display tank, my thought is to get the utility fish list down and then start to build that stocking plan.

Recommendations/Suggestions are most welcome.

 

[Bill Amaro]

Here is my prototype 3D Printed Custom Return. Needs some cleanup work on the print, but I wanted to show where I was headed. The "production" version will be printed with Black PETG which should make it blend in with the black back panel frame. So my goal was to have 15% or so of flow come out the 3 slots in the front to break up the surface tension. The remaining water will flow thru the 2 return pipes which are 4" and 8" below the return body, hence the diverter in the return body to ensure the distribution of water flows as expected. The nozzles are angled 15 degrees downward and also have a small slot in the back to allow flow out of the front and back.

The 3 front holes should prevent a siphon from ever forming as they are very close to the top water line and will allow air in once outbound flow has stopped.

Hooked it up directly to a pump that can push about 900 gallons per min and it handled that with no problem. There will be 3 of these in the tank, 2 for the direct sump returns, and the 3rd will be the return from my UV.

Based on my testing so far, no bubbles came out of the return pipes and the flow was what I expected. Really think these will do a decent job adding flow to the top and middle level of the tank.

 

[Bill Amaro]

I posted this on another group and got no responses... Thought I would try posting it here and maybe someone with experience can provide a recommendation:

Building a media box for my new custom sump. Basically, a 3D printed box (8" long x 4" wide x 10" tall) with trays that will be stacked inside the box and hold the media.

Water will flow from the top of the box thru the trays (and media) out the bottom of the box. Flow will be provided by a stand-alone pump in the sump which will also supply flow to my Algae Scrubber and Nitrate Destroyer.

The primary media I will be using (as required) is PhosGuard and/or Carbon. Will not be using GFO as this isn't designed to tumble the media.

Trying to understand how much flow I would need for this device. Low and slow [more contact time] (10 GPH) and something a little faster [more turnover] (50 GPH).

Can't seem to find any recommendations on the Internet for this topic

 

[Bill Amaro]

Here are some photos of my stand... It is 37" tall, 25" deep (I have a 6" space behind the tank for overflow, UV and plumbing) and is 6' 2" long which give me a little 2 inch cubby in the corner. Almost every joint is glued and screwed.

The right side will hold my 10gal ATO tank and my 40gal Breeder sump. The left side is my electrical compartment which I will access from the side.

The inside supports are all blocked at the bottom with 2x6 and 2x4 to prevent any movement.

Supports underneath the sump floor. Tried to paint everything that was going to be covered up during the build.

3/4" interior/exterior plywood was used mostly for added strength.

Since I wanted a double 2x4 rim, I used 6" pegs and glue to connect the rim to the upright corner supports. It worked very well.

You can never have too many plugs. Lucked out that I had an active outlet that ended up in the sump area. This circuit has a GFI up-steam and I have a whole house surge protector and an auto-switch 22KW generator. Would have loved to put in a 2nd circuit, but was just no way to run the line.

The space on the bottom left will have a fan to pull in cold floor air into the electronics compartment. I also lucked out as I have an internet cable that starts at my router and ends up on the right side of the tank. So I will be able to hardwire my Apex EL instead of using Wi-Fi by just extending the cable behind the tank. Also the sump area has a 1 1/2 high edging and going to coat this area with "Flex Seal" to make it waterproof incase of spills and such.

View from the electronics side. The upper shelf on the left is where my Trident will go so that it ends up higher than the top of the sump tank.

Joys of building something in place. You can adjust as you go up. Pretty happy with the way this stand came out (that is a 4' level).

Skin will most likely be 3/4 in pine stained to match the color of my desk. Won't start that till the tank has started to cycle.

Now I need to find some friends to help me lift the tank up to the top of the stand. 233lbs is more than the wife and I can handle.