My Forever Tank - Plan/Build/Maintain Thread

[Bill Amaro]

The purpose of this thread is to document various steps of bringing my "Forever Tank" online.

Hopefully down the road it will help others understand the process I used to bring my "Forever Tank" online and I hope to solicit ideas for some of the components that will make up this tank.

I recently retired after 39 years as a software engineer. First half of my career was building worldwide complex computing infrastructures, the last 19 years were creating quantitative software for investing in the equities market. I share this as complexity and innovation are something I am very comfortable with and tend to think out of the box most of the time.

Started my first reef tank in December of 2018. It is a Marineland 90 gal tank with separate refugium and sump. The tank is set up as a Clown Harem tank with about 20 clowns, Blue Hippo Tang and a Foxface Rabbitfish. Have several types of nems (BTA, Long Tentacle, Rock), Zoa's, 1 Crocea Clam, Hammer Coral, several Acans, Blasto, Duncans, Xenia plus a few other assorted corals.

I had some SPS corals, but the majority of them died. I attribute it to high phosphate and Nitrate levels due to the fact that I feed the my tank 3 times a day to keep the clowns calm and less aggressive.

The plus side is I have learned a great deal on how to control nutrient export. Been running GFO and Phosguard and 3 months ago built a version of "Donovan's Nitrate Destroyer" which has allowed the nitrates to go from 40-50PPM down to currently 9.4PPM and still moving lower each week (would like to get closer to 5PPM)

I run Neptune Trident and DOS to measure and drive my 2 part dosing. Have a CO2 scrubber connected to my protein skimmer, so I am able to keep my PH between 8.1 and 8.3 consistently. We live in Florida, so opening a window isn't an option and pulling outside air is dangerous because either our pest guy or the county is spraying for bugs. One of few downsides of living in Florida.

I also purchased a QIDI X-Plus 3D printer, since I kept thinking of all these cool devices I wanted to create for this tank. For example, created a raised cover for my protein skimmer, so when it overflows, my CO2 scrubber doesn't fill with water. Also created filter floss cups for the water flowing into the sump that actually fit in my very tight sump space.

If you are willing to put in the time to learn a CAD program (I use Fusion 360), having a 3D printer really allows you to create some unique devices to solve the unique problems as the arise.

Net is, other than my failure to be able to sustain SPS coral (and in the next few weeks, I am going to add a trial SPS again), I view this tank as a success and a great learning experience. I still have a lot to learn, but feel pretty good that when questions are asked, many times the answer in my head matches what others have posted.

In the next post I will start to talk about my "Forever Tank" and my thoughts about its configuration and components.

Current 90.. need to clean the glass...

 

[Bill Amaro]

My "Forever Tank" will be located in my home office. Very few visitors go into my office, so the tank is primarily for my enjoyment. While I love having a reef tank, it is not the primary focus of my life.

I spend many hours each day in my office as I am still writing software (In the process of creating a prototype of an AI/Optimization application that will help offer advice/suggestions about your tank, but that is for another thread in the future).

I have a corner next to my wall that is 6 foot, 3 inches long and the 90 degree wall is 36 inches.

So I have decided that a 6' long, 18" deep, 24" high tank would fit nicely in that corner. I considered a depth of 24", but my 90 today is 18" deep and I have a hard time reaching the back of the tank to do maintenance.

This is considered a standard size tank by most tank builders, which will help keep the cost down.

Glass vs Acrylic - I have decided that I want to go with a glass tank. I see so many acrylic tanks out there for sale that say, great tank, has a few scratches. In 2 years, I have yet to put a scratch in my Marineland glass tank.

Tank Manufactures - I have spent hours reviewing and looking at tank builders. One of my criteria was that I wanted a quality tank, with an external overflow, with the ability to customize a somewhat standard sized tank.
So, on reviews, comments, customer service response, add-ons and price, I have decided to go with "Custom Aquariums.com" aka Lifetime Aquariums. They have videos of their build process online and I have been working with Nathan (National Sales Rep) and he has responded promptly and has provided a great deal of information.

My current Marineland tank as an internal overflow, left of center with 2 pre-drilled holes. Works well, but takes up a great deal of space on the left side of the tank. For this tank, I would like to go with an external overflow.
Custom Aquariums has 2 products that look very interesting in the overflow department H2Overflow, H2Overflow Stealthbox.

The Stealthbox has multiple possible out-flow connections, some for flow into the sump, others for flow to devices. Today, for example, I feed my "Donovan's Nitrate Destroyer" from my return manifold. With all these potential connections, I could feed it directly from the overflow. I have some other ideas for these connections will I will discuss in the future.

Using two H2Overflows, it appears I can get a 2400 GPH thru the Stealthbox. The H2Overflows are 7 1/4" long and 1 3/4" wide, so my thought is have them set up parallel to the back wall. They would block a minimal amount of light in that configuration.

They also have a product called Siphon Stopper which basically will prevent a siphon from forming on your returns. For a small fee, they will drill holes and mount them on the back (or any) wall of the tank.

Overall, I find these products interesting and somewhat safer than what I have on my 90 (overflow is drilled thru the bottom of the tank), my returns are over the top and partially out of the water to prevent siphon, plus I have a check valve in the return line.

Another advantage is that by drilling these into the back wall and having nothing over the top, I can create a pretty clean cover to prevent jumpers from carpet surfing or in my case tile surfing.

As far as stands and canopies and sump containers, my plan to custom build them myself. I want the wood on the stands/canopies to match my desk. Today, with my current 90, that is not the case. I once built my own house, so it shouldn't be a skills problems.

 

[Greybeard]

Sounds like a good plan. You and I have some commonalities... I'm also a software engineer, and went to a great deal of effort pre-planing my current tank.

Size: Your 72x18x24" size gives you a nice size tank, not so big that water changes are a nightmare, big enough to house a variety of creatures. Mines a bit smaller, short and fat, at 60x30x18. Mounted peninsula style, it's very easy to access without having to get my sleeves wet. I well understand your desire to limit size to make it accessible, myself, I'd rather have the large footprint and lower height.

I did a steel stand, welded up by a local fab shop, to my specs, then did surround, woodwork, etc. You might look into this option... steel gives you a very open stand, with whatever cabinetry you end up building being non load bearing. Really opens up your options.

I went with Planet Aquariums, but I did purchase the H2Overflows and Siphon Stopper returns you're looking at. Love the H2Overflows, but the siphon stoppers had to be severely modified to work for my reef. They introduce bubbles into the flow, you might ask about that. My H2Overflows are 4 years old now, and still going strong. Easy to clean, silent, take up very little space in the tank, I really like them. I didn't buy their stealth overflow box, just had a friend piece one together out of acrylic for me, so I don't have an opinion on that part.

I went with Octo Aquatics custom acrylic/screen top. Love it... but they're pricey. Guy that sells them is on here, very good to deal with.

Enjoy designing and building your new tank!

Oh... here's what I ended up with

 

[Bill Amaro]

Sounds like a good plan. You and I have some commonalities... I'm also a software engineer, and went to a great deal of effort pre-planing my current tank.

Size: Your 72x18x24" size gives you a nice size tank, not so big that water changes are a nightmare, big enough to house a variety of creatures. Mines a bit smaller, short and fat, at 60x30x18. Mounted peninsula style, it's very easy to access without having to get my sleeves wet. I well understand your desire to limit size to make it accessible, myself, I'd rather have the large footprint and lower height.

I did a steel stand, welded up by a local fab shop, to my specs, then did surround, woodwork, etc. You might look into this option... steel gives you a very open stand, with whatever cabinetry you end up building being non load bearing. Really opens up your options.

I went with Planet Aquariums, but I did purchase the H2Overflows and Siphon Stopper returns you're looking at. Love the H2Overflows, but the siphon stoppers had to be severely modified to work for my reef. They introduce bubbles into the flow, you might ask about that. My H2Overflows are 4 years old now, and still going strong. Easy to clean, silent, take up very little space in the tank, I really like them. I didn't buy their stealth overflow box, just had a friend piece one together out of acrylic for me, so I don't have an opinion on that part.

I went with Octo Aquatics custom acrylic/screen top. Love it... but they're pricey. Guy that sells them is on here, very good to deal with.

Enjoy designing and building your new tank!

Oh... here's what I ended up with

Beautiful Tank..will give the steel frame some thought, since it will only be seen on 2 sides, I would only have 2 skin those 2. I will review the Siphon Stoppers based on your comments.... Really appreciate you reply. Enjoy

 

[Greybeard]

On the Siphon Stoppers, Here's a video I took while testing. Note, this is a freshwater plumbing test, prior to initial salt fill of my tank. I showed the video to CustomAquariums support, they recommended I turn the siphon stoppers to the side until the tops were underwater to stop the bubbling. Obviously, that wasn't going to work. I ended up cutting the vent legs off of the siphon stoppers, and plugging the vent holes with silicone. I then drilled normal siphon vent holes in the tube, just below water level. It's worked fine, but honestly, for what I paid for these, a couple of bulkheads some PVC, and a bit of loc-line... could have done it myself, saved some money, and ended up with a cleaner solution.

 

[Bill Amaro]

On the Siphon Stoppers, Here's a video I took while testing. Note, this is a freshwater plumbing test, prior to initial salt fill of my tank. I showed the video to CustomAquariums support, they recommended I turn the siphon stoppers to the side until the tops were underwater to stop the bubbling. Obviously, that wasn't going to work. I ended up cutting the vent legs off of the siphon stoppers, and plugging the vent holes with silicone. I then drilled normal siphon vent holes in the tube, just below water level. It's worked fine, but honestly, for what I paid for these, a couple of bulkheads some PVC, and a bit of loc-line... could have done it myself, saved some money, and ended up with a cleaner solution.

Thanks for the video... That is a lot of bubbles... I have been toying with the idea of 3D printing some custom return nozzles.. Since I will have a few months before my tank will be built, it will give me time to do some prototyping which will incorporate some device which will stop a siphon from starting (I hope). Will let you know what I come up with if I get something to work. Have to say, love my 3D printer for stuff like this. Well worth the $1K investment.

 

[Bill Amaro]

What are the thoughts on a "passive closed loop system"

Currently, I plan on using 3 Neptune WAV pumps located along the back wall of the tank. In my current 90, I have 2 and they produce a great deal of flow in that tank. With just 2 and depending on the settings, I am getting somewhere around 40-60 tank turnovers per hour (typically, the highest I run these is 60%)

As mentioned above, I will be using a Custom Aquariums H20verflow Stealth box which has multiple connectors at the bottom of the overflow box.

I am thinking of adding two 1/2" holes to the back wall of my new tank about 1 foot in from the side and 6 inches from the bottom. I would hook up plumbing from the Stealthbox connection to bulkheads inserted into these holes.

This would allow water to passively flow from the overflow to the bottom of the tank adding some additional flow towards the bottom of the tank.

Trying to understand if gravity would overcome the pressure and I would actually get some flow or would water basically sit in the pipe due to equilibrium?

My other option is to add an inline pump (like a Cobalt E-X-T 800) to force the water to the bottom of the tank, but that adds one additional point of failure.

Opinions?

 

[Caseyz]

What are the thoughts on a "passive closed loop system"

This would allow water to passively flow from the overflow to the bottom of the tank adding some additional flow towards the bottom of the tank.

Trying to understand if gravity would overcome the pressure and I would actually get some flow or would water basically sit in the pipe due to equilibrium?

My other option is to add an inline pump (like a Cobalt E-X-T 800) to force the water to the bottom of the tank, but that adds one additional point of failure.

Opinions?

I am in the process of doing the same thing you are, designing my forever tank. I am also considering a closed loop system for flow. I don't think you will get any flow unless you use an inline pump. Just make sure you have access to it after the tank is in place and setup for maintenance.

 

[Greybeard]

Have to say, love my 3D printer for stuff like this. Well worth the $1K investment.

I love my 3D printers, as well. Using an FLSun Delta printer, for most things these days. I'd say 3D printing a return would be fairly simple, and could give you a very nice looking return. Gotta be better than the Siphon Stopper.

What kind of printer are you using?

Your 'passive' flow method isn't going to produce much, if any, flow. Same head pressure in and out of the tank. Actually, if you're overflowing from the tank to the outside box, head pressure outside will be slightly lower, so if anything, pressure is going to flow from the tank to the outside box. In any case, it's not going to move without some sort of pump.

I'd suggest sticking with wave pumps. You mention Neptune Wav's... I'm not a fan, but it's a reasonable option. What I've seen from Wav pumps tends to be less reliable than I can accept. Price is good, features are excellent, but they don't seem to last long. I ended up with Tunze stream pumps, connected to a 0-10vdc output on my Apex. That way I have Apex controlled pumps, with the reliability of Tunze. Cheap? Well, no... but reliability is something I won't compromise on.

 

[Bill Amaro]

I am in the process of doing the same thing you are, designing my forever tank. I am also considering a closed loop system for flow. I don't think you will get any flow unless you use an inline pump. Just make sure you have access to it after the tank is in place and setup for maintenance.

Yes, access is a problem with this tank since it will be placed in a corner of a room, I really will only have access from the back top, bottom thru the sump and one back via the side. One of the reasons for considering a closed loop system is that using a power head in that far back location will be a bear to service. I can plumb it so the pump and valve are located on the back where I will have access from the side. Thanks for your reply...

 

[Bill Amaro]

I love my 3D printers, as well. Using an FLSun Delta printer, for most things these days. I'd say 3D printing a return would be fairly simple, and could give you a very nice looking return. Gotta be better than the Siphon Stopper.

What kind of printer are you using?

Your 'passive' flow method isn't going to produce much, if any, flow. Same head pressure in and out of the tank. Actually, if you're overflowing from the tank to the outside box, head pressure outside will be slightly lower, so if anything, pressure is going to flow from the tank to the outside box. In any case, it's not going to move without some sort of pump.

I'd suggest sticking with wave pumps. You mention Neptune Wav's... I'm not a fan, but it's a reasonable option. What I've seen from Wav pumps tends to be less reliable than I can accept. Price is good, features are excellent, but they don't seem to last long. I ended up with Tunze stream pumps, connected to a 0-10vdc output on my Apex. That way I have Apex controlled pumps, with the reliability of Tunze. Cheap? Well, no... but reliability is something I won't compromise on.

I have QIDI X-Plus printer and I really like it... I have a nice 10 gallon tank and a 450 gph spare pump, so I can really do some serious prototyping. Looking forward to see what I can come up with. What are you using for a CAD design, I am using Autodesk Fusion 360 (Free for personal use).

My experience is limited to Neptune WAV's and Icecap 1K Gyre. I have to say, I really like the WAV, but one of mine did stop working after about 14 months. Created a service ticket, sent in the WAV and next thing I know, there was a new one on my door step, so if they break during the warranty period, they will replace it. Since I have several nems in my Clown Harem tank, I have nem guards on them, so I need to clean the guards once a week. Have it down to 5 mins, so I may clean my more than the average reefer. I agree, the features are outstanding. For example, 3 times a day I ramp each side of my tank up to 100% for 3 mins (think someone called this Hurricane mode) to really stir things up and they do a great job. I found them easy to set up and they have so many program options that you can mix and match. Also, I find the WAV to be very quite. With the Icecap, I have the net nem guards on them and once they get a little algae growth on them, it starts to hum. I don't hear it as much as my wife does (14 years in the artillery, so my heading is shot).

 

[Bill Amaro]

So after much thought, comments and research, I have abandoned the idea of running plumbing from the bottom of the Stealthbox to a bulkhead at the bottom of the tank.

The first reason, since I will need a pump, I will need to do pump maintenance. This will require me to plumb from the Steathbox to the left side of the tank (tank is in a corner, so limited rear access) and then to the bottom of the tank.

For the right side bulkhead, that would require somewhere close to a 9 foot run of pipe.

The second reason is this adds an additional point of failure. In my 90, the bulkheads are within my overflow. If one was to fail, theoretically, only the water inside the overflow would leak out. In the reference application, if the bulkhead was to fail, it could drain all but 6 inches of the tank.

While originally I thought this was a cool idea, after thinking it thru, not so much.

My new plan to ensure flow on the bottom of the tank is to add a Gyre pump mounted on the right side of the tank (I should have about 3 inches between the wall and the side of the tank for any dry side component)

 

[Bill Amaro]

Cabinet Layout - Since the tank will be 5 1/2" off the back wall and 3 1/2" off the corner wall, the available space under the tank will be close to 75 1/2" x 23 1/2".

I plan on allocating space as follows

3' for my sump
1' for Donovan's Nitrate Destroyer, ATO container, and Pentair 25W UV (UV will be behind the tank, so it will be easy to clean and replace the bulb)
6" for cable management
1.5' to house various electronics (Apex, Trident, etc). This will be accessible via a door on the side of the cabinet as the front 2 feet of cabinet will have a desk next to it blocking access.

 

[Bill Amaro]

Looking for opinions.

For nutrient export in my new 125Gal, I will have filter floss cups, Reef Octopus Classic 150SSS 6" Internal Space Saving Protein Skimmer, reactor holding PhosGuard and Donovan's Nitrate Destroyer.

In my current 90, I have all of the above, plus a 9 Gal refugium (the light burned out last week, so it really isn't active at this point).

My last set of numbers for my 90 have my Phosphate at .04, Nitrite at .008 and Nitrates 4.7. This is a clown harem tank, so it is feed 3 times a day, so a great deal of waste is generated.

I would like to not set up a refugium in my new tank if possible, but looking for opinions as if this is a good idea or not.

I will say Donovan's Nitrate Destroyer does a great job of reducing Nitrates. At one point my Nitrates were around 50 before I brought the destroyer online.

It is my understanding that the destroyer will also reduce phosphates, but only removes a small amount and it appears the PhosGuard is taking care of the rest.

Other than removing a dedicated area for pod production, with the devices/processes I have above, does the refugium perform some other functions that I would lose by not having one?

 

[Bill Amaro]

Looking for opinions and suggestions for this sump design.

The actual sump will be an Aqueon 40 Breeder. The outer dimensions are 36.26 X 18.25 X 17. Typically, I run my sump at 9" deep.

Flow is A->B->C->D->E->F->G->H and using 125Gal as my base gallons, I would like to try and get 6 X thru the sump on an hourly basis or somewhere around 750 gals per hour.


Chamber A (20" X 5") - I plan on using a Custom Aquariums H2Overflow Stealthbox with 2 H2Overflows connected. It will be configured with 2 overflows (with gate valves) and 2 emergency overflows. The width of Chamber A will allow all overflows to exit the StealthBox and terminate in Chamber A as straight runs. No elbows or bends.

Chamber B (20" X 4") will receive water from chamber A. Water will be free to flow over the top of the baffle between chamber A and B. Chamber B will contain 4 x (4 X 5) 3D printer filter floss containers. I have tried using filter socks on my 90 and I find the filter floss cups to require much less effort and work pretty well.

Chamber C (11" x 9") will receive water from chamber B. Water will flow under the baffle that separates chamber B and C. This is my refugium chamber. This is not my primary nutrient export, but I am adding to in an attempt to maintain a constant PH while in my lights out period. I plan on ensuring that the baffles that make up this chamber are blackened to prevent light from leaking to the other chambers.

Chamber D (5" x 18") will receive water from chamber C. Water will flow over the top of the baffle in this chamber. This chamber will contain my "Donovan's Nitrate Destroyer" and additional bio-media (such as MarinePure Ceramic Biomedia).

Chamber E (11" x 9") will receive water from chamber D. Water will flow under the baffle that separates chamber D and E. This chamber will contain my protein skimmer.

Chamber F (4" x 9") will receive water from chamber E. Water will flow over the baffle that separates chamber E and F. This chamber will contain a set of 3D printed stackable media trays which will allow me to add media like carbon and PhosGuard. Water will flow thru the trays and exit thru the bottom of the baffle to bubble trap.

Chamber G (2" x 9") This will be my bubble trap.

Chamber H (14"x 9") This is the chamber that will contain my return pump.


While most place their skimmer before their refugium, I put the skimmer in front as trying to clean the skimmer with the refugium light in front of it would make it a difficult task. My understanding is that I may lose a few more pods with this setup, but I am willing to accept that.

I am also toying with the idea of allowing part of the flow from chamber B (filter floss) to flow directly into chamber H (return chamber). That would allow to slow the flow thru chambers C->G, but still allow me to have 6x of the tank volume go thru some level of mechanical filtration.

Comments are most welcome...

 

[Bill Amaro]

Has anyone ever 3D printed baffle guides for adding baffles to a sump.

My thought is one side would be printed flat, the other side would contain a slot that would friction fit a piece of acrylic or glass.

The flat side would be glued /siliconed to the sump glass, the friction slot could still be sealed with silicone to ensure a watertight seal.

The sump I am proposing contains many 90 degree baffles and this would add strength to where these baffles connect to each other.

Haven't been able to come up with any cons at this point... Curious if anyone has done this before...

 

[Bill Amaro]

Has anyone done a partial bare bottom tank.

I have several Long Tentacle Anemones and my understanding is that they like to bury their foot in the sand to be happy.

I have a sand bed in my current 90 Gal and part of it has solidified, the part that is against the glass turns black if not maintained, basically pretty tough to keep clean and pretty looking.

On my new tank, I would like to build Zoa gardens on the bottom of my tank along with maybe some GSP.

However, my current thought is that a section of the bottom would have a rock retaining wall and within that enclosure would be a sand bed where the LT Anemones would we happy to plant their foot.

Just wondering if someone has done something like this before and how did it work out...

 

[Bill Amaro]

Lighting - I plan on moving over my ReefBreeders 48-V2+ from my current 90 gal tank. My initial thought is to buy an additional ReefBreeders 24-V2+ to fill in the missing 2 feet (going from a 4 foot to 6 foot tank).

Anyone think of a good reason to buy something like 2 AI Primes to occupy the 2 feet of space (I would put one on each end of the the ReefBreeders light.

I can think of more cons for going the AI Prime route (different lighting programs, cost and so on) than pros.

I really love my current ReefBreeders lights, but want to make sure I am not missing some much better alternative.

 

[Bill Amaro]

Ordered my 72L x 18W x 24H from Custom Aquariums and should be here in 9 to 11 weeks.

This is a standard framed tank.

The front and left side (which are the viewing sides) are ultra clear glass, while the bottom and back are standard tempered glass. The right side (which is in the corner of the room) is just standard glass.

I will be using their H2Overflow StealthBox which will have 2 H2Overflows for a potential flow of 2400 GPH into the sump.

I had them drill 3 additional 3/4" holes, 2 for sump returns and 1 as the return for my UV. Trying to keep the plumbing as straight forward as possible, so the additional return for the UV prevents me having to tie together the sump return with the UV return.

One thing I learned from my 90 is complicated plumbing really reduces flow. My return pump is rated for 1400 GPH and the best I can get out of it is 425 on a good day. Too many fittings and 90s, so I don't want to make that mistake again.

I have a 40Gal Breeder ordered (from my LFS) for the Sump. There is an earlier post that describes the sump layout that I am going to put in place.

​

 

[Bill Amaro]

This post will cover the Aquascape build for my new 6' tank.

The plan is to build an NSA (Negative Space Aquascape) for this tank. In my current 90, as you can see above, I went with the individual pillar aquascape. This aquascape has several problems; first, not many horizontal areas to mount coral on. Found it worked well for my rock flower nems and my BTAs, not so well for some of my LPS coral. Flow around the top of the pillars is decent, but flow toward the bottom, not so much, as the base pieces are pretty wide and prevent good flow at the substrate level.

I really like the look of NSA structures and have watched every video I can find on how to design and build them.

Made this my first project as I would like to get them built, so I can cycle them for a period of time before I place them in the new tank. I don't expect the tank to arrive until the end of Feb/beginning of March.

My goal is to build 3 structures, 2 toward the left side, 1 toward the right side of the tank using the rule of 3rds. This is going to be somewhat of a challenge for me. I am a software eng. by trade, so I think in binary Hopefully, there is some artistic talent somewhere in my brain.

For materials, I purchased 3 Large foundation Reef Saver Dry Live rock pieces. These make great base pieces as they are perfectly flat on one side. I like that the weight will be distributed over the entire foundation piece and unlike like my current pillars which have all the weight on a few contact points.

For the actual structures, I have 110lbs of Reef Saver Aquarium Dry Live Rock - MarchRocks. I have broken these in smaller pieces as you can see in the pics below.

My design points are as follow:

2 1/2" between any structure and the front or back glass panes. So for the 18" width of this tank, I have 12" of design depth.
Min of 5" from any side wall.

I am going to use the BRS video method for construction, BRS Glue, accelerant and then go back with Marco mortar and sand to seal the joints.

I have allocated 3 weeks for this project. The joys of being retired, you can work on stuff almost every day that interests you.

I will post some pics as the build progresses. The first pic below is the foundation rock. The 2nd is the 110lbs broken up. The box in the background contains small pieces of rock that I am sure I will use during the build. The bag is leftover rock dust.

As always comments and suggestions are always welcomed.