My new Golden Banana Moray Eel

[srcleary]

That is exactly the scenario that happens after some type of poisoning that caused internal organ damage. Everything is fine and then out of nowhere the fish stops eating then dies. Organ failure sometimes takes time, that time has many variables. Thiaminese which I have mentioned also shows this same scenario. After several months to a 1.5 years +/- of excessive thiaminese they develop a vitamin B1 deficiency which becomes deadly. This will show in a collapsed appetite and what some describe as lock jaw. this appears as if the fish wants to eat but just doesn't quite grab the food. So do you freeze your fresh seafood before you eat it, I know you cook it, but I will sometimes just sear tuna or even eat tuna and salmon raw(sushi). Yes I know this is risky, but I have never frozen fresh food before I feed it. I've been doing this for 30 years plus and to my knowledge have never seen an issue, with me or others I've talked to. Go to your trusted seafood counter and get a small sampling of fresh stuff, I've been known to get 2 prawns, 2 squids, etc. Show them the pic of what you are feeding to quickly become a vip at your seafood counter. I eat salmon regularly, I slice a sliver off for my preds which will partake, although most of my current fish(lions and scorps) eat live food. Unless noted "does not contain Ethoxyquin", food found at the lfs will contain this preservative, as well as most pet food that contains seafood, so check your other pet food. This preservative is very deadly, and fish like eels, lions. predatory fish as a whole may be more susceptible to such additives, as they do seem to process many things differently. If you are feeding frozen; make sure it is frozen fresh, not at the end of the fresh cycle; there is a packed on date, it is being stored properly around 0 degrees, and you use it within the prescribed shelf life. I say trusted seafood counter, if it's "really" fresh, you can't smell it, and some even use chemicals to present "fake" freshness. If it makes you feel safer, freeze your small batch, just make sure you use it within just a few months, providing you are storing it properly.

I confirmed today that my LFS does run copper in the same tanks eels are in. It is very unfortunate. They didn't know the long term ramifications to running copper with eels. I will just have to see how it goes with Rio but very disappointed. They are also trying to find another Banana Moray for me and promised to no longer put eels in any tanks with copper. Again, while it is unfortunate they did this, they will no longer and that I guess is the only saving grace. Thanks for reaching out to me with this critical information. You may have saved a number of eels going forward.

 

[lion king]

I confirmed today that my LFS does run copper in the same tanks eels are in. It is very unfortunate. They didn't know the long term ramifications to running copper with eels. I will just have to see how it goes with Rio but very disappointed. They are also trying to find another Banana Moray for me and promised to no longer put eels in any tanks with copper. Again, while it is unfortunate they did this, they will no longer and that I guess is the only saving grace. Thanks for reaching out to me with this critical information. You may have saved a number of eels going forward.

I hope he wasn't in there long enough to cause serious damage. There are many variables, 1st off, eels are individuals, just like humans being exposed to the same toxins. The length of time he spent exposed, as well as the concentration of the dosage, as each lfs does it differently. It would be great to figure out some sort of liver detox or support, I guess the best you can do is provide an excellent diet and good water quality.

 

[srcleary]

I hope he wasn't in there long enough to cause serious damage. There are many variables, 1st off, eels are individuals, just like humans being exposed to the same toxins. The length of time he spent exposed, as well as the concentration of the dosage, as each lfs does it differently. It would be great to figure out some sort of liver detox or support, I guess the best you can do is provide an excellent diet and good water quality.

Yeah the owner felt bad and I promised to share more information with him. Do you have any articles I can point him to? He said he keeps the tank at 0.20 but it varies and could even be less depending on what is going on with the tanks. He was going to ask one of his guys when he returns from his out-of-town trip. I think Rio was at the LFS for three weeks. I wanted to get him in my tank sooner but the Texas cold and power outages delayed me a week. Is there any specific vitamins I should focus on? We have a Whole Foods just down the street so quality and fresh seafood is no problem. I have Selcon and was going to alternate with Vita Chem.

 

[lion king]

Yeah the owner felt bad and I promised to share more information with him. Do you have any articles I can point him to? He said he keeps the tank at 0.20 but it varies and could even be less depending on what is going on with the tanks. He was going to ask one of his guys when he returns from his out-of-town trip. I think Rio was at the LFS for three weeks. I wanted to get him in my tank sooner but the Texas cold and power outages delayed me a week. Is there any specific vitamins I should focus on? We have a Whole Foods just down the street so quality and fresh seafood is no problem. I have Selcon and was going to alternate with Vita Chem.

You'll have to search for your own articles, the industry as a whole tends to ignore the issues that copper and other meds present, much the same way of big pharma and humans. Copper being a bad deal for eels is pretty common knowledge, and I hate to talk down on your lfs, but running copper is just a really bad deal. All running sub therapeutic levels of copper does is suppress what ever disease may be present, it doesn't cure anything. It keeps a disease at bay long enough to get into some one's tank, then times comes roaring in. These lfs usually also run their sg at 1.018, I've even seen lower, to keep parasites at bay. They know they are doing damage to internal organs of every fish, and keeping any potential diseases at bay just long enough to sell the fish.

I have used selcon and vitachem, as well as Brightwell Aminomega, which is a good alternative to selcon also containing some B vits, vit c and e. I really don't really on supplementation any more. Comparing my success with the predatory fish I keep to others that religiously supplement, I found the diet is the key, as ones that religiously supplement still had no long term success to speak of. Supplements wash off and fat soluble vits can become toxic just as in humans, so you have to be aware of that.

An added nutritional tip, predatory fish do eat algae grazers and crustaceans, so try stuffing your food with an algae pellet. Carnivore's don't eat algae but they eat the stomachs and the nutritional value of algae eaters. A quality pellet food is usually highly dense in nutrients and protein, so a variety of pelleted food can be used, so take a few pellets and stuff them inside the chunks of food you are feeding. You can also use like one of marinade syringes to inject the supplements into the chunks of food, helps to maintain instead of rinsing off. I know I'm a nut, I don't do all the things I suggest at once, but I do enough of them regularly to make a difference.

 

[Thomashtom]

Just keep in mind i know people that treated their tank with copper with an eel in it years ago and it is still going strong! So like Lion king said its not an automatic death sentence!!

 

[lion king]

People continue to blow off my warnings against the prophylactic use of copper and other meds, and to steer clear of sources that run copper, other med cocktails, and run unusually low sg.

While you'll never, or rarely, find industry information on the dangers of copper, etc; I won't insult your intelligence, you know it exist.

This fish would live an average of like 20 years in the wild. I've researched 100s of fish over years from 2 high profile lfs. Fish that come from the stores that run copper in their systems have an extremely high mortality rate. Many dieing within a few months, and very few living into even into the few year phase. Tangs, angels, triggers dieing unexpectantly within just a year or 2. Lions,eels, puffers; forget about. As I stated earlier, there are viables, but the risk is there.

These lfs always blame the hobbyist, because it has been removed from the lfs by time. Most don't connect the dots of organ damage, and sometimes organ damage takes time. I've done enough necropsies to see the damage with my own eyes.

As I watch fish from these lfs die routinely a year or so later, I see fish from clean sources thriving a decade and more. If you must deal with a lfs that runs copper, have them order your fish and pick it up the transport bag. Don't let them put it in their system. This serves 2 fold; they don't get exposed to copper, and they don't have to go through 2 acclimations.

 

[srcleary]

People continue to blow off my warnings against the prophylactic use of copper and other meds, and to steer clear of sources that run copper, other med cocktails, and run unusually low sg.

While you'll never, or rarely, find industry information on the dangers of copper, etc; I won't insult your intelligence, you know it exist.

This fish would live an average of like 20 years in the wild. I've researched 100s of fish over years from 2 high profile lfs. Fish that come from the stores that run copper in their systems have an extremely high mortality rate. Many dieing within a few months, and very few living into even into the few year phase. Tangs, angels, triggers dieing unexpectantly within just a year or 2. Lions,eels, puffers; forget about. As I stated earlier, there are viables, but the risk is there.

These lfs always blame the hobbyist, because it has been removed from the lfs by time. Most don't connect the dots of organ damage, and sometimes organ damage takes time. I've done enough necropsies to see the damage with my own eyes.

As I watch fish from these lfs die routinely a year or so later, I see fish from clean sources thriving a decade and more. If you must deal with a lfs that runs copper, have them order your fish and pick it up the transport bag. Don't let them put it in their system. This serves 2 fold; they don't get exposed to copper, and they don't have to go through 2 acclimations.

It is really sad that the industry is as you explain. I wish there was more information and care about the long term health of the livestock. I used to raise exotics and everyone gave them deworming antibiotics every three months. Texas A&M begged ranchers not to do this as they were creating "super parasites". We choose only to treat animals that showed signs of being sick. Yes we lost some animals, and more early on, but over the course of time our herds were way healthier then the average. When we sold them we got top $$$.

I asked our LFS to let me know when my order arrives and I will pick up direct before they place them in any tanks. You can read post after post of eels that stop eating and they don't know why. It is sad no one is connecting the dots. I would like to be part of the solution, as I was when I was ranching, but it seems like an overwhelming problem. But again, most ranches never listened and over medicated. Then again most people tend to over use antibiotics. This was even more dominant in the deer industry. Perhaps there is little hope in changing behavior. I can tell you I agree with your assessment 100% and will do what I can to collect my fish the best way possible.

 

[srcleary]

Just keep in mind i know people that treated their tank with copper with an eel in it years ago and it is still going strong! So like Lion king said its not an automatic death sentence!!

Hopefully this is the case with Rio. He certainly doesn't deserve an early death, as. does any livestock, from human error! And perhaps it will make me more aware of providing excellent nutrition and maintaining the quality the water.

 

[lion king]

It is really sad that the industry is as you explain. I wish there was more information and care about the long term health of the livestock. I used to raise exotics and everyone gave them deworming antibiotics every three months. Texas A&M begged ranchers not to do this as they were creating "super parasites". We choose only to treat animals that showed signs of being sick. Yes we lost some animals, and more early on, but over the course of time our herds were way healthier then the average. When we sold them we got top $$$.

I asked our LFS to let me know when my order arrives and I will pick up direct before they place them in any tanks. You can read post after post of eels that stop eating and they don't know why. It is sad no one is connecting the dots. I would like to be part of the solution, as I was when I was ranching, but it seems like an overwhelming problem. But again, most ranches never listened and over medicated. Then again most people tend to over use antibiotics. This was even more dominant in the deer industry. Perhaps there is little hope in changing behavior. I can tell you I agree with your assessment 100% and will do what I can to collect my fish the best way possible.

Thats how it used to be, I started nore than 30 years ago, we knew copper and such were toxic way back then, you only treated when absolutely necessary. It was commonplace to keep your fish more than a decade. Now it's volume and that's it. I could go on and on, it's alot more difficult today, and sadly most think fish are ok to just live a few years in captivity. Do your research on moray eels and find the experts and well known magazines say moray eels being kept 2 to 4 years in captivity is the standard. We are talking about animals that some live 20 to 30 years in the wild.

 

[srcleary]

Rio continues to get more comfortable in the tank. It’s amazing to watch him swim through all the rock work. I know they don’t have good eyesight but he sure navigates the tank well. Here he is after today’s feeding. I thought he had enough but he thought otherwise!

Rio the Banana Eel after eating

youtube.com

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Great discussion in this thread.

 

[burningmime]

Rio continues to get more comfortable in the tank. It’s amazing to watch him swim through all the rock work. I know they don’t have good eyesight but he sure navigates the tank well. Here he is after today’s feeding. I thought he had enough but he thought otherwise!

Rio the Banana Eel after eating

youtube.com

The way they swim is so cool!
Love the Crosshatch Trigger too. Do you have 2 crosshatches or is that other one a blue throat?

 

[srcleary]

The way they swim is so cool!
Love the Crosshatch Trigger too. Do you have 2 crosshatches or is that other one a blue throat?

I love the way the swim. Especially during feeding time!

So far I have a male and female Crosshatch and the Linespot that was in the video. He’s the most active and most friendly of my triggers. Also the smallest.

 

[srcleary]

UPDATE: Rio is doing great. Very aggressive eater. I did add two more Banana Eels. (housing three was my goal). The good news is I got them direct from the LFS BEFORE they went Into their copper infested tanks! The bad news is Rio wasn't happy with the new addition. I made the mistake of not removing his favorite "den" and when one of them went into it, he swam in as well and attacked it.

Nasty bite marks on its head (see image). I treated the tank with some Melafix as I didn't want to remove him unless the attacks continued. Which, thankfully they didn't. There was a lot of bullying but when the new eels stuck ups for themselves (after about a week) Rio stopped the aggression. Obviously there is still some aggression (especially at feeding time) but they all seem to get along now. They will open their mouths and chase each other out of their favorite spots a bit but nothing serious. And the best news is I occasionally see them hanging out together! So hopefully I will have success keeping three Banana eels. They are all-out 12-14 inches and will be going into the 820g in a few months.

Picture #1: The wound on the new guys head after being attacked by Rio on the first day.

Picture #2: Rio and the new guy "Tiago" hanging our together. (The Linespot likes to photo bomb.)

Picture #3: The two new addition. Tiago and Praia. Praia is the largest one and has the most black spots. She (or he) looks amazing. She doesn't mess with anyone but the other two eels don't mess with her either. She is the largest and calmest of the three. (Rio is in the background) Of course this is except for feeding time as the eels have learned to steal food from the triggers' mouths!

 

[lion king]

UPDATE: Rio is doing great. Very aggressive eater. I did add two more Banana Eels. (housing three was my goal). The good news is I got them direct from the LFS BEFORE they went Into their copper infested tanks! The bad news is Rio wasn't happy with the new addition. I made the mistake of not removing his favorite "den" and when one of them went into it, he swam in as well and attacked it.

Nasty bite marks on its head (see image). I treated the tank with some Melafix as I didn't want to remove him unless the attacks continued. Which, thankfully they didn't. There was a lot of bullying but when the new eels stuck ups for themselves (after about a week) Rio stopped the aggression. Obviously there is still some aggression (especially at feeding time) but they all seem to get along now. They will open their mouths and chase each other out of their favorite spots a bit but nothing serious. And the best news is I occasionally see them hanging out together! So hopefully I will have success keeping three Banana eels. They are all-out 12-14 inches and will be going into the 820g in a few months.

Picture #1: The wound on the new guys head after being attacked by Rio on the first day.

Picture #2: Rio and the new guy "Tiago" hanging our together. (The Linespot likes to photo bomb.)

Picture #3: The two new addition. Tiago and Praia. Praia is the largest one and has the most black spots. She (or he) looks amazing. She doesn't mess with anyone but the other two eels don't mess with her either. She is the largest and calmest of the three. (Rio is in the background) Of course this is except for feeding time as the eels have learned to steal food from the triggers' mouths!

That's amazing. The wound doesn't look bad even for the 1st day, has it already healed up. Seeing one is a treat, but three; I hope you have them many years.

 

[srcleary]

That's amazing. The wound doesn't look bad even for the 1st day, has it already healed up. Seeing one is a treat, but three; I hope you have them many years.

Yes wound is healed. Thankfully. I assume the slime coating on their skin helps them heal quickly?

 

[Punksboops]

Had mine now for a little over a year eats a whole shrimp a day or 2 silver sides. Grown about 3 inches since I got him

 

[srcleary]

Had mine now for a little over a year eats a whole shrimp a day or 2 silver sides. Grown about 3 inches since I got him

Mine would eat a shrimp a day but it also spikes the levels! But they are spoiled and get more active the second day between feedings. 3” sounds growth good. I’m wondering how big they will get in captivity. The LFS had one growing like crazy. But it was only about 5” and he feeds every day. Mine freak out over clams!

 

[Punksboops]

Definitely going to try the clams. This 1 eats everyday for two monthes then goes on a month break. So strange

 

[lion king]

These little 2' moray will reach that full size and do grow pretty fast if fed properly. They usually reach full size in about 1.5 yrs or so. Feeding daily is a bad idea, their metabolism is set up for a gorge/fast feeding routine. One possible negative effect from too frequent feedings is fatty liver disease. By the time these eels are mature, once a week feedings are more ideal. Overfeeding usually in the form of too frequent feedings is one of the most common causes of an early demise.