My speculation: Vibrant has some fluconazole in it...

[MnFish1]

I assume it should be extract ?

Or maybe according to the steps outlined, sounds like bacteria filtrate.

Look - Imho - here is the decision: Use the product - or don't use the product. The tests -again - though awesome - show a correlation - not a causation. I'm somewhat concerned that people are deciding to do tests to 'debunk' products - with various methods - key - that have to be modiified - to show results. This is a repetitive topic. I requested @Daniel@R2R to start an experiment topic here - to post all of these things together - but it seems like some just want to try to 'debunk' products. all good - if those tests are valid. To me this needs to be vetted. No offense to the people doing testing. I'm sure they have valid reasons for what they are doing. But - they ignore the reasons that their tests are not valid - according to the methods in the original research (at least to my reading)

Thus - to me - it comes down to - does the product work? Yes or No.
Does it cause damage - Yes or No?

For example - a lot of people feed their coral - I do not - can I prove that they are wrong? No. etc etc

 

[a.t.t.r]

Look - Imho - here is the decision: Use the product - or don't use the product. The tests -again - though awesome - show a correlation - not a causation. I'm somewhat concerned that people are deciding to do tests to 'debunk' products - with various methods - key - that have to be modiified - to show results. This is a repetitive topic. I requested @Daniel@R2R to start an experiment topic here - to post all of these things together - but it seems like some just want to try to 'debunk' products. all good - if those tests are valid. To me this needs to be vetted. No offense to the people doing testing. I'm sure they have valid reasons for what they are doing. But - they ignore the reasons that their tests are not valid - according to the methods in the original research (at least to my reading)

Thus - to me - it comes down to - does the product work? Yes or No.
Does it cause damage - Yes or No?

For example - a lot of people feed their coral - I do not - can I prove that they are wrong? No. etc etc

Idk there is something to be said about honesty in labeling and not accepting companies that try to push this hobby back to the dark ages.

 

[Sesty22]

Been following along since the start. I've been using Vibrant weekly for about 2 months, maybe a little longer.

I've been happy with my results.

But I have skipped the last 2 weeks as I got more interested in this thread.

You are all MUCH smarter than I am so I just wanted to clarify. When it's said that the unknown chemical we are putting in our tank can be possibly "dangerous", what are we talking about? How dangerous? I get that with out knowing exactly what it is, its hard to say but from what we do know is there any way to know what the risks might be?

Is Sticking my arm in the tank going to give me cancer? Any type of off-gassing possible from this chemical into my home where I have a new baby? Any health concerns for people with any sort of pre existing conditions? My wife has MS. What about my indoor dog?

These are the types of concerns that popped up for me as I followed along. Especially when you see some of the crazy side effects other pesticides have caused in people and other animals.

When I first started using this product I had a question and I somehow got a cellphone # and was able to text someone at @UWC . They answered my questions very quickly and I thought ... "Hey I'm happy to support this company with great service", now I'm worried about the health of people in my house.. All because I wanted to get rid of stupid algae.. I really hope whatever is in Vibrant isn't dangerous. Maybe a little reassurance for people supporting you and your product would be cool. Don't wait for the awards or whatever.

 

[DrZoidburg]

@MnFish1 Yes and also maybe 3'd party testers. I have seen this person booger tests before and get odd results. How do we not know they had some bias and did something to get different results? @taricha your spectrum analysis would be good, if you had supporting data before a conclusion. Typically in research papers they list all of the ingredients, all of the instruments, all of the procedures and tests done before any conclusion. This would eliminate all of the guessing had to do.

 

[a.t.t.r]

Been following along since the start. I've been using Vibrant weekly for about 2 months, maybe a little longer.

I've been happy with my results.

But I have skipped the last 2 weeks as I got more interested in this thread.

You are all MUCH smarter than I am so I just wanted to clarify. When it's said that the unknown chemical we are putting in our tank can be possibly "dangerous", what are we talking about? How dangerous? I get that with out knowing exactly what it is, its hard to say but from what we do know is there any way to know what the risks might be?

Is Sticking my arm in the tank going to give me cancer? Any type of off-gassing possible from this chemical into my home where I have a new baby? Any health concerns for people with any sort of pre existing conditions? My wife has MS. What about my indoor dog?

These are the types of concerns that popped up for me as I followed along. Especially when you see some of the crazy side effects other pesticides have caused in people and other animals.

When I first started using this product I had a question and I somehow got a cellphone # and was able to text someone at @UWC . They answered my questions very quickly and I thought ... "Hey I'm happy to support this company with great service", now I'm worried about the health of people in my house..Because I wanted to get rid of stupid algae.. I really hope whatever is in Vibrant isn't dangerous. Maybe a little reassurance for people supporting you and your product would be cool. Don't wait for the awards or whatever.

I doubt it is harmful to people especially as it seems related to pool polyquat. However one thing struck me on their instructions about stressing water changes no matter what and that is possible fear of accumulation in the system and a possible slow natural breakdown. I would wait until someone much smarter then I comments on the chemicals in algaefix.

 

[JCOLE]

At this point @UWC needs to find some new material ASAP and also dump the scapegoats on this thread that call themselves "DR's and Scientist's."

@UWC I swear to you if i have to find out from these "Hobbyists"(as some fools on here will say) that there is a pesticide in here then I promise you, I will SUE your company out of existence for not killing 95% of my livestock, but for putting me and my family in danger for using a product that has no warning of this chemical!

I have waited patiently and it's been almost a month since you personally wrote me and said you would let everyone know what is in Vibrant that is showing this "quat" substance. You have been given plenty of chances and your responses have been nothing but unprofessional. Nothing you have said has showed anything to anyone what this "quat" is. Your responses lack empathy or compassion for the many that have decimated their tanks from using your product.

And for those that think I am making stuff up about @UWC saying this to me. See below. Now is your chance!

 

[DrZoidburg]

@JCOLE Yes notice the uwc put in parentheses "quat" because despite what some people think it's really not polyquaternium. Now I have a few different guesses. However bacteria wont live in something well with antimicrobials. Shall I copy and paste the testers private messages about how they boogered other tests?

 

[Duffer]

You know what is amazing the folks that are bashing a vendor…why the need for that…it’s your choice to use it or not …this thread has gotten to the point it’s ridiculous…do I care vibrant is not answering , maybe, but in the end it’s up to me if I want to use it or not…some of you are just unbelievable

 

[JCOLE]

@JCOLE Yes notice the uwc put in parentheses "quat" because despite what some people think it's really not polyquaternium. Now I have a few different guesses. However bacteria wont live in something well with antimicrobials. Shall I copy and paste the testers private messages about how they boogered other tests?

No. I want the company to! This cat and mouse game is getting very old.

 

[a.t.t.r]

@JCOLE Yes notice the uwc put in parentheses "quat" because despite what some people think it's really not polyquaternium. Now I have a few different guesses. However bacteria wont live in something well with antimicrobials. Shall I copy and paste the testers private messages about how they boogered other tests?

What I don’t understand is why you are attacking testers instead of proposing different test all while defending a company who has now under their own admission said that the label does not equal actual ingredients.

 

[DrZoidburg]

What I don’t understand is why you are attacking testers instead of proposing different test all while defending a company who has now under their own admission said that the label does not equal actual ingredients.

Because the testers have a history, and a bias from another website. I don't think it is fair to bash a product from a company that has started from humble beginnings based on crap tests.

 

[JCOLE]

You know what is amazing the folks that are bashing a vendor…why the need for that…it’s your choice to use it or not …this thread has gotten to the point it’s ridiculous…do I care vibrant is not answering , maybe, but in the end it’s up to me if I want to use it or not…some of you are just unbelievable

You didn't read the whole thread did you? It's not about "it's your choice to use it or not". It's about that I chose to use this product based on the claims its bacteria that targets the algae. However, it appears it's not, which is called false advertisement. This false advertisement is a possible reason I crashed my tank and dosed a chemical that I wouldn't want around me let alone my 4 year old son who helps me do water changes, etc.

The company has been given multiple opportunities to explain why the tests @taricha and others are doing that show similar traits to Algaefix and yet they don't say anything.

 

[UWC]

At this point @UWC needs to find some new material ASAP and also dump the scapegoats on this thread that call themselves "DR's and Scientist's."

I am not one to go around and flaunt things but you better believe it when I say "I HAVE VERY DEEP POCKETS!" @UWC I swear to you if i have to find out from these "Hobbyists"(as some fools on here will say) that there is a pesticide in here then I promise you, I will SUE your company out of existence for not killing 95% of my livestock, but for putting me and my family in danger for using a product that has no warning of this chemical!

I have waited patiently and it's been almost a month since you personally wrote me and said you would let everyone know what is in Vibrant that is showing this "quat" substance. You have been given plenty of chances and your responses have been nothing but unprofessional. Nothing you have said has showed anything to anyone what this "quat" is. Your responses lack empathy or compassion for the many that have decimated their tanks from using your product.

And for those that think I am making stuff up about @UWC saying this to me. See below. Now is your chance!

At this point @UWC needs to find some new material ASAP and also dump the scapegoats on this thread that call themselves "DR's and Scientist's."

I am not one to go around and flaunt things but you better believe it when I say "I HAVE VERY DEEP POCKETS!" @UWC I swear to you if i have to find out from these "Hobbyists"(as some fools on here will say) that there is a pesticide in here then I promise you, I will SUE your company out of existence for not killing 95% of my livestock, but for putting me and my family in danger for using a product that has no warning of this chemical!

I have waited patiently and it's been almost a month since you personally wrote me and said you would let everyone know what is in Vibrant that is showing this "quat" substance. You have been given plenty of chances and your responses have been nothing but unprofessional. Nothing you have said has showed anything to anyone what this "quat" is. Your responses lack empathy or compassion for the many that have decimated their tanks from using your product.

And for those that think I am making stuff up about @UWC saying this to me. See below. Now is your chance!

Well, if that’s your stance, I’m sorry. There’s too much going on to blame anyone, including us.

Need help - Big RTN episode on my SPS tank.

Hello everyone! I wanted to reach out to see if I can get some opinions from everyone regarding a big RTN episode on my system. Please bear with me as this is a lot. A little background on the system. I have a 150 gallon SPS dominant tank which is about 2 years old. I started the tank off with...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[JCOLE]

Well, if that’s your stance, I’m sorry. There’s too much going on to blame anyone, including us.

Need help - Big RTN episode on my SPS tank.

Hello everyone! I wanted to reach out to see if I can get some opinions from everyone regarding a big RTN episode on my system. Please bear with me as this is a lot. A little background on the system. I have a 150 gallon SPS dominant tank which is about 2 years old. I started the tank off with...

www.reef2reef.com

Again, I said for NOT killing my livestock. I can't prove your product killed my corals and nothing will prove that. What I am more concerned about is a chemical in my tank that I would have never dosed had I known it was in there.

I have dosed Fluc and Chemiclean on multiple tanks throughout the years with 0 losses. If you read through my thread you posted then you will see my pieces were not looking good after both Vibrant doses. The tank looked sterile and the pieces lost a lot of color. Yes, I did dose fluc and chemiclean and yes, that is why I cannot say that Vibrant was the only factor. This is why I chalked it up as a loss an moved on. That was until this thread started and it appeared there is more to Vibrant than what is being advertised.

 

[DrZoidburg]

I see that reading that thread... A lot of dosing things, and a lot of things going on how can you blame one thing?

 

[a.t.t.r]

Maybe everyone should just put down the keyboards for the night.

 

[nereefpat]

@JCOLE Yes notice the uwc put in parentheses "quat" because despite what some people think it's really not polyquaternium. Now I have a few different guesses.

Care to enlighten us? Or maybe you have some tests that could disprove algaecide? Or tests that might prove or rule out what you suspect?

 

[MnFish1]

You didn't read the whole thread did you? It's not about "it's your choice to use it or not". It's about that I chose to use this product based on the claims its bacteria that targets the algae. However, it appears it's not, which is called false advertisement. This false advertisement is a possible reason I crashed my tank and dosed a chemical that I wouldn't want around me let alone my 4 year old son who helps me do water changes, etc.

The company has been given multiple opportunities to explain why the tests @taricha and others are doing that show similar traits to Algaefix and yet they don't say anything.

Its your job to then discuss with the company make a complaint - as far as legality goes. I do not think it means you agree with everyone who says x vs. y. Go ahead - sue them? Nothing is stopping you. I have already said - I dosed vibrant and had coral loss - of course I perhaps dosed the salt-water as compared to the reef version - and I dosed in excess of their recommendations. Am I blaming them? No - Do I believe the tests done here - with their modifications - not entirely. And - I'm beginning to not care. You should take up your complaints with UWC iMHO - and I hope you have a successful resolution. My question - before that is - what was the problem in your tank that required you to use a product in the first place.?? obviously there was 'something' causing the algae. What was your problem? (in the tank)

 

[outhouse]

Lol. What a joke. Been reefing for 30 years now. Ish, using vibrant 6 months. Not lost any coral, growth amazing. No algae and glass stays clean for the month. 300 g system I dose 30ml weekly. Will Continue because the stuff works. My DSB is 7 years old and expired. Yet tank looks amazing. This is not fluconazole I have used that for years and my tank and coral react differently including build up on glass. GOOD PRODUCT

 

[JCOLE]

Its your job to then discuss with the company make a complaint - as far as legality goes. I do not think it means you agree with everyone who says x vs. y. Go ahead - sue them? Nothing is stopping you. I have already said - I dosed vibrant and had coral loss - of course I perhaps dosed the salt-water as compared to the reef version - and I dosed in excess of their recommendations. Am I blaming them? No - Do I believe the tests done here - with their modifications - not entirely. And - I'm beginning to not care. You should take up your complaints with UWC iMHO - and I hope you have a successful resolution. My question - before that is - what was the problem in your tank that required you to use a product in the first place.?? obviously there was 'something' causing the algae. What was your problem? (in the tank)

I am discussing it with the Company, right now on this thread. Or atleast trying to. Am I not?

Not continuing this troll game with you. I am done wasting my time with you.