Need advice on water parameters for Xoas

[Pattheerin]

I'm struggling to figure out why most of my xoa colonies, torches, etc. just seem kind of uninterested in fully coming out or growing much. Most of the time lights are on they are either barely out, or some of the polyps are open and others aren't within a colony. What other water parameters should I be checking to make these guys happy and want to be out in full force most of the time?

PH: 8.1
Salinity: 1.026
Nitrates: .05
Nitrites: 0
Ammonia: 0
Alk: 12.4

Would my high alk have something to do with them not coming out much? I recently switched to RODI water from treated tap water, and did a 12% water change a few days ago with no change in alk too btw.

Thanks for any help you guys can provide!

 

[tuesdayd]

Everyone runs their tank differently, but...

Your nitrates appear to be too low. That would be a good number for phosphates. I try to keep nitrates around 10-20. Also, your alk is higher than I would run it, but like I said, we all do things differently.

 

[NS Mike D]

1. ALk. Yeah 12.4dkh is on the high side. Also, you usually see high ALK with high NO3/PO4 tanks while low ALK is with low NO3/PO4. I know Red Sea recommends 11.5 dkh for mix reef, with NO3 1-2ppm and PO4 0.08-0.12ppm, however I found maintaining high Alk difficult to do. The theory is that high alk is more prone to precipitation (the hard white dots that form in the pumps and other hardware surfaces) and higher Alk leads to faster coral growth and thus fast ALK and CA uptake (presuming you also have sufficient NO3 and PO4 to support the faster coral metabolism).
For illustration Red Seas SPS recommended parameters are 8dkh and 0.25- 0.5ppm NO3 and 0.01-0.02 ppm PO4.
So, your tank appears to be running ALk for a higher nutrient tank, while your nutrients may be for a low ALk tank.


2. NO3and PO4 What test kits do you use to test NO3, API is not reliable. No PO4 test? Let's nail these down before taking any steps.

3. Lights. Too much light can cause polyps to close. Conversely, they will stretch in low lighting

 

[Pattheerin]

1. ALk. Yeah 12.4dkh is on the high side. Also, you usually see high ALK with high NO3/PO4 tanks while low ALK is with low NO3/PO4. I know Red Sea recommends 11.5 dkh for mix reef, with NO3 1-2ppm and PO4 0.08-0.12ppm, however I found maintaining high Alk difficult to do. The theory is that high alk is more prone to precipitation (the hard white dots that form in the pumps and other hardware surfaces) and higher Alk leads to faster coral growth and thus fast ALK and CA uptake (presuming you also have sufficient NO3 and PO4 to support the faster coral metabolism).
For illustration Red Seas SPS recommended parameters are 8dkh and 0.25- 0.5ppm NO3 and 0.01-0.02 ppm PO4.
So, your tank appears to be running ALk for a higher nutrient tank, while your nutrients may be for a low ALk tank.


2. NO3and PO4 What test kits do you use to test NO3, API is not reliable. No PO4 test? Let's nail these down before taking any steps.

3. Lights. Too much light can cause polyps to close. Conversely, they will stretch in low lighting

Hey Mike! Thanks for the reply, this is much appreciated.

Would high alk be a reason my xoas only come out intermittently, as well as most being barely or half open most of the time?

1) I'm thinking that my salt much be a high alk salt, and that I should probably switch to a lower alk one at this time if this is a determining factor in my issues.

2) I haven't tested for phosphates, but can grab a kit today if this is also an important factor (apologies, I'm scrambling to learn as best as possible). And yes, the test kit I use for ammonia, PH, nitrites/nitrates is API.

3) I'm using a single Hydra 26HD over a 40b, everything in the tank is at least a few inches from each end. I have a pic of the schedule attached. Doesn't seem like it would be too much light to me, but would love for you to take a look.

Thanks for all this help, really want to nail this down and start enjoying the tank more, as currently it's just stressing me out trying to figure things out.

 

[NS Mike D]

Lets assume when you get your NO3 and PO4 test, you have both and within an acceptable low range and that you are reading and testing the ALK correctly (I factor in user error on my alk test even though I have done them 100's of times and still cannot confidently tell you when it starts turning from blue to green).

Bring down down the ALk slowly. With ALK, the consensus is is that stability is more important that the actual number. With you numbers (assuming low nutrients) I have seen a number of threads that report sps tip burning/bleachinhg.

As for salt mixes, good idea. I switched from Reef Crystals to Instant Ocean. I was influenced by the word Reef and the image of a reef tank on the box and had no idea the salts composition. "I have a reef tank so this must be the right one". Over time two things. I could never maintain ALk anywhere near the RC numbers and the more I learned the more I realized I was overpaying for a salt mix I don't need.

My tank has always settled in the 8-9 Alk range, and so I listened to my tank and that's where I keep it. Since your are at 12.4dkh I think 9-10 dkh might be a good range.

Good saltwater mixing helps with Alk stability.

Test your salt mix before adding to the tank so you know what you are adding. Make sure your process, mix salt into water, not the other way around, drop in a pump and a heater and wait a few hours or over night for complete dissolve, proper temp and CO2 equilibrium with ambient air- which affects pH. Also. make sure you are mixing to 35ppt salinity. Most salt recipes mix to lower SG.

As for you lights, I can't tell how much PAR is reaching them, but it looks like you ramp these up to full blues quickly and hold them there all day. Consider a long ramp up and ramp down. For example I do my first ramp from 7am - 10am. Then a second ramp to my highest level by noon and hold it there for 2 hours before ramping down until lights out. I think a long ramp up will help indicate if it's too much light for them if they fully extend on the way up and then retreat at some point,. And then you'll know the range in which they will be happy.

 

[jeffchapok]

My zoas are growing well with these parameters. As softies, they like 'dirty' water. I suspect your nitrates are too low, and I would try to drop the alk below 12.

 

[Pattheerin]

My zoas are growing well with these parameters. As softies, they like 'dirty' water. I suspect your nitrates are too low, and I would try to drop the all below 12.

Easiest way to get Nitrates up a little? Currently I only have a couple clowns and a royal gramma as fish in the tank.

 

[NS Mike D]

My zoas are growing well with these parameters. As softies, they like 'dirty' water. I suspect your nitrates are too low, and I would try to drop the all below 12.

what went on with the SG swing in a week's time? Was it temp? or a change in salt? @Pattheerin notice the swing in ALK/CA and MG with the swing in Salinity.

 

[NS Mike D]

Easiest way to get Nitrates up a little? Currently I only have a couple clowns and a royal gramma as fish in the tank.

hold off. we do not know your actual nitrates. you may be ok. generally speaking, we keep nitrates lower for new tanks than we do for mature tanks. IMO, the first year of reef tank keeping is the hardest.

 

[MrZoaCrazy]

Zoas love dirty water raise your nitrate levels

 

[jeffchapok]

what went on with the SG swing in a week's time? Was it temp? or a change in salt? @Pattheerin notice the swing in ALK/CA and MG with the swing in Salinity.

I was dealing with a frogspawn head bailout, detailed in another thread I started here. People advised I raise temp, salinity, and calc. So I did so over the course of a week. I started dosing Reef Fusion to raise the calc slowly, with a result of the corresponding rise in alk.

My alk normally runs 8.7-9.2.

 

[NS Mike D]

I was dealing with a frogspawn head bailout, detailed in another thread I started here. People advised I raise temp, salinity, and calc. So I did so over the course of a week. I started dosing Reef Fusion to raise the calc slowly, with a result of the corresponding rise in alk.

My alk normally runs 8.7-9.2.

nicely done, good luck with the frogspawn.

 

[NS Mike D]

Zoas love dirty water raise your nitrate levels

We don't know the nitrates. We suspect they are low, and I agree that zoas do well in higher nitrate tanks, but they also do well in low nitrate tanks.

Assuming nitrates are 0.05ppm, what level NO3 do you recommend to target?

Lastly, it's a new tank (and from a video he posted it looks new). how do you reconcile raising nitrates with the generally accepted practice of keeping NO3 and PO4 low to help battle new tank algae issues?

 

[Pattheerin]

We don't know the nitrates. We suspect they are low, and I agree that zoas do well in higher nitrate tanks, but they also do well in low nitrate tanks.

Assuming nitrates are 0.05ppm, what level NO3 do you recommend to target?

Lastly, it's a new tank (and from a video he posted it looks new). how do you reconcile raising nitrates with the generally accepted practice of keeping NO3 and PO4 low to help battle new tank algae issues?

If the API kits are so inaccurate, how should I be testing the nitrates?

 

[NS Mike D]

If the API kits are so inaccurate, how should I be testing the nitrates?

nitrates and phosphate

you'll see these suggested off the top of my head

Red Sea
Siefert
NYOS
Hanna Checker

The problem with API NO3 and PO4 tests is that they are not sufficiently sensitive for reef tanks as we run very low numbers than say a fish only saltwater tank.

 

[Pattheerin]

nitrates and phosphate

you'll see these suggested off the top of my head

Red Sea
Siefert
NYOS
Hanna Checker

The problem with API NO3 and PO4 tests is that they are not sufficiently sensitive for reef tanks as we run very low numbers than say a fish only saltwater tank.

Thoughts on this budget one?

 

[NS Mike D]

Thoughts on this budget one?

yup. I cannot vouch for them personally, but there are many others who do .

here is their PO4 test - unless you's rather spend the $$$ on the hanna - PO4 is more critical to keep low but not zero





the hanna PO4.

 

[Pattheerin]

yup. I cannot vouch for them personally, but there are many others who do .

here is their PO4 test - unless you's rather spend the $$$ on the hanna - PO4 is more critical to keep low but not zero





the hanna PO4.

Thinking of just grabbing this and replacing all my API tests:

 

[NS Mike D]

That's a nice bundle I'm going to save it to my wish list.

Keep your APi in case you ever need to test for ammonia or nitrites (I can't recall last time I tested them).

 

[Pattheerin]

That's a nice bundle I'm going to save it to my wish list.

Keep your APi in case you ever need to test for ammonia or nitrites (I can't recall last time I tested them).

Thanks for all your valuable input. I really appreciate it!