Need guidance for Stabilizing phosphates!

[ajremington68]

How to stabilize a low level of phosphate with tangs?
I have a 45g system. (30g Frag Tank) 0 tangs
I have a 65g system. (55g Tank) 1 tang
I have a 220g system. (180g Tank) 5 tangs
Now my 30g frag tank I have no tangs and have 1 clown, 1 damsel, 1 bangeye and my phosphate sits around 0.32ppm. Which seems high but is good for me because my 55 and 180 both have tangs and cap my ULR Phosphate checker out at 0.90. My 55g has 1 purple tang, 2 clowns, 1 melanarus wrasse, 1 yellow watchman goby, 1 mandarin goby. I feed New Life spectrum pellets to it and have cut back the nori to once a week maybe. Now the 180g has 1 hippo tang, 1 dejadini tang, 1 purple tang, 1 tomini tang, 1 blonde naso tang, emperor angel, flame angel, coral beauty, and 6 smaller clowns. they get 1 piece of nori a day just because they amount of tangs and I think it keeps them tame, especially the purple... the 180g also get new life spectrum pellets and a little bit of flake for the clowns.

Now I have used Brightwell Phosphate-E in the past and still have it and can use it. But I have heard the story with tangs and with the stocking in the 180g it makes me raise concerns. I have not used but know about phosphate reactors, but haven't heard great things about it lowering phosphates but more keeping them stable.
Reason for wanting to get a grip on the phosphates now after so long is I don't have much of any SPS rn (only easy ones) and they do okay in high nutrient waters. I also have softys and euphilla, and they don't really mind either or they are adjusted. But I would like to start dabbling more into SPS and figure its a good time to start correcting what I have been pushing under the rug for a long time. Also, want to see if my tank can do better.

Question is how do I go about correcting the phosphates? At what rate do I want to lower the phosphates with them being elevated for so long. ( I have some really expensive torches thriving so would like to not risk them. ). Once I get my phosphates down how do I keep them down. If I use Brightwell Phosphate-E Do I need a skimmer to pull out the phosphates to lower them? Will I be able to keep the phosphates down with so many herbivores in the 180g?

Going to add cuts of my test with the numbers and dates so you can see my trends and give me your best advice. Thanks for the read and help!

 

[ajremington68]

Also here if photos of my tanks going in order of 30g, 55g, 180g. Also would like to add no alage in the 55 with the high nutrients. The 30g it comes and goes with that one being more stable. The 180 well the photo says a lot. Also it’s newer and I am yet to put in an order to reef cleaners to add to the tank, but want to get the nutrients in check. Then get a lot of the alage out, via nutrient control, blackout, hydrogen peroxide dosing and bacteria. Then add a big clean up crew to avoid loses from the hydrogen peroxide.

 

[MarineandReef Jaron]

I am a big fan of lanthanum chloride for phosphate reduction. I personally use TLF PhosbanL and dose a little every day to my 180 with 6 tangs. I have never had an issue with the tangs.

I think the problem is when people add a lot at once. It is much better to add a small daily amount and measure the change over weeks rather than look for an overnight change. I would use the phosphate E you have but dose a little every day and if you have a dosing pump all the better. start with a low dose of 1ml per day or so and then leave it alone for a week. If it doesn't budge then up it a little and see where you are the next week.

I dilute my Phosban L 3 to 1 as TLF recommends and dose 22ml per day. This maintains the phosphate and is very low maintenance. I just refill the dosing container when needed.

 

[ajremington68]

I am a big fan of lanthanum chloride for phosphate reduction. I personally use TLF PhosbanL and dose a little every day to my 180 with 6 tangs. I have never had an issue with the tangs.

I think the problem is when people add a lot at once. It is much better to add a small daily amount and measure the change over weeks rather than look for an overnight change. I would use the phosphate E you have but dose a little every day and if you have a dosing pump all the better. start with a low dose of 1ml per day or so and then leave it alone for a week. If it doesn't budge then up it a little and see where you are the next week.

I dilute my Phosban L 3 to 1 as TLF recommends and dose 22ml per day. This maintains the phosphate and is very low maintenance. I just refill the dosing container when needed.

1ML a day of phosphate E according to online calculator (http://larryl.emailplus.org.user.fm/fish/dosing-instructions-phosphate-removers.html) will lower it .1 is that okay or shoot for even less? Also could I dilute the phosphate E with rodi water say or would it ruin the effectiveness?

 

[ajremington68]

@MarineandReef Jaron If i was to dose some today how long do you think you should wait to test to see what its reaction was? day, 2 days, week, 2 weeks?

 

[ajremington68]

@MarineandReef Jaron also have you ever used a phosphate reactor? If you have why did you stop using it? Or have you done liquid phosphate remover and it just works? Have you ever stripped all your phosphates out or do you under cut how much you dose so it doesn’t strip?

 

[Dkmoo]

Based on your history it looks like you have periods of low to no nitrate in all three tanks. This suggests that part of the high po4 is caused by ur primary N and P absorbers being nutrient limited by N.

This is a common problem bc algae absorbs both N and P in a certain ratio, which tend to be higher on the N side than a lot of what we feed, which relatively speaking is more P. So cumulatively over time you get excess P compared to N from your natural nutrient export (removing algae). I think if you can keep N available and let nature do its thing, P will stabilize. Don't start feeding more bc that'll also increase P. Instead, dose N.

This will fuel growth, both good (coral) and bad (algae) but it will allow you to take out more P in the process

For that newer tank it looks like rocks are new so po4 could also be leaching from the rock depending on the type of rock and now much P was bound in it vs ur water.

 

[rishma]

This is how I do it with GFO, once stable I just use carbon source.

A way to use GFO to slowly and sustainably lower phosphate

GFO works and there is nothing innovative here, but perhaps this will be helpful to others. I previously struggled to get good results with GFO in small water volumes. I keep a stable PO4 range around 0.08 ppm most of the time with carbon dosing (NP bacto), skimmer, and consistent food...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[rishma]

double

 

[MarineandReef Jaron]

@MarineandReef Jaron also have you ever used a phosphate reactor? If you have why did you stop using it? Or have you done liquid phosphate remover and it just works? Have you ever stripped all your phosphates out or do you under cut how much you dose so it doesn’t strip?

I have used GFO and aluminum oxide in reactors but find that dosing lanthanum is easier for me. No media to exchange or a reactor to clean.

I also find it is much easier to control how much phosphate you remove. With Lanthinum you learn if I add X amount of Lanthinum I get X amount of phosphate reduction. With solid meida, they work great at first and then slowly stop working so you loose effectiveness between media exchanges. I also find it harder to measure how much media you need to get the desired effect.

I have never been able to strip phosphate with Lanthinum but you definitely can with GFO and Aluminum oxide.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm not sure I'd risk using lanthanum in a tank with tangs, unless it was very high.

GFO, aluminum oxide, soluble iron dosing, and growing macroalgae or turf algae will all work. With the latter, you may need to dose N as well.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have never been able to strip phosphate with Lanthinum but you definitely can with GFO and Aluminum oxide.

One can drive phosphate into the dirt with lanthanum if you dose more than needed, just like you can with GFO and aluminum oxide.

 

[MarineandReef Jaron]

1ML a day of phosphate E according to online calculator (http://larryl.emailplus.org.user.fm/fish/dosing-instructions-phosphate-removers.html) will lower it .1 is that okay or shoot for even less? Also could I dilute the phosphate E with rodi water say or would it ruin the effectiveness?

.1 is really not that much of a reduction. If you dose 1 ml per day for 7 days your PO4 should be .2 which I would consider good. Watch your livestock and make sure everything is behaving well and then check back in a week. In reality it will almost certainly be higher than .2 because you are still feeding the fish and adding more PO4 everyday.

If you have continual problems I would make it my goal to dial in a regular dose to maintain low phosphates. It may be 1ml per day or it could be 1 ml every other day. You just need to watch the trend and adjust accordingly.

 

[vadryn]

I feel that GFO has got so expensive I've been looking for an alternative. Going to look for article/posts on Phosban for my 90. I feel like I can stabilize dosing like I do for carbon dosing and not wonder when my GFO will run out of steam. Would you expound on the dilution you do and why?

 

[MarineandReef Jaron]

I use Phosban L the TLF product. I have it linked below.
https://www.marineandreef.com/Two_Little_Fishies_PhosBan_L_500_ml_p/rtl42236.htm
The instructions recommend diluting and I follow the instructions. I do not dose into a filter sock I just dose small amounts. I currently add 22 ml per day into a 200 gallon tank but split it into 48 doses using a dosing pump. It is always better to add a little at a time rather than all at once.

 

[ajremington68]

th

I use Phosban L the TLF product. I have it linked below.
https://www.marineandreef.com/Two_Little_Fishies_PhosBan_L_500_ml_p/rtl42236.htm
The instructions recommend diluting and I follow the instructions. I do not dose into a filter sock I just dose small amounts. I currently add 22 ml per day into a 200 gallon tank but split it into 48 doses using a dosing pump. It is always better to add a little at a time rather than all at once.

thanks for all the info. I am going to roll this out on my 55g starting today and see what I can achieve. Also going to use up my brightwell phosphate E first but definitely getting 2LF phosban due to the price curve and I love julian sprung. Also the diluting I really like. with not dosing in a filter sock, do you still dose before your protein skimmer in the sump?

Also am really bad with changing socks and floss weekly or as needed just because life gets busy sometime, and with the media exhausting I will defiantly have swings of not checking it.

 

[MarineandReef Jaron]

th

thanks for all the info. I am going to roll this out on my 55g starting today and see what I can achieve. Also going to use up my brightwell phosphate E first but definitely getting 2LF phosban due to the price curve and I love julian sprung. Also the diluting I really like. with not dosing in a filter sock, do you still dose before your protein skimmer in the sump?

Also am really bad with changing socks and floss weekly or as needed just because life gets busy sometime, and with the media exhausting I will defiantly have swings of not checking it.

I dose into the skimmer chamber but I don't run the line directly into the skimmer.

 

[BryanM]

I have dosed LC in to a filter sock for the last 3 months with a powder blue, no issues thusfar.

It is important to go slow if you go down the LC road.

 

[ajremington68]

I have dosed LC in to a filter sock for the last 3 months with a powder blue, no issues thusfar.

It is important to go slow if you go down the LC road.

@MarineandReef Jaron

What kind do you use? I have a surplus of brightwell phosphate E that I am going to use but want to dilute it so I was thinking of doing 1/4 of 50 phosphate E to 150 of rodi water. Would that be to potent or should not? And start at 1ml and go up from there. However it will be hard to tell the effect at the start because my phosphate checker is a Hanna ULR and it’s maxing out at .9

 

[ajremington68]

@MarineandReef Jaron what is you dilution numbers of phosphate remover to rodi water?