Need help beating Dinos and Cyano!

[Auburn866]

Sorry in advance for the long post! Years ago I started my first reef tank and I think I ran it too clean, I ran a large protein skimmer for filtration and after going fallow due to Brook, nutrients bottomed and I got Dino. I tried everything I could to kick it, and unfortunately never did. After a year long fight I ended up getting out of the hobby for a few years, partially due to the frustration of always having ugly sand and rock due to Dino. I decided to get back in the hobby earlier this year. This time I decided to run a higher nutrient softie/LPS 20G nano tank with no skimmer, using only filter socks for filtration. Fish were added after a month long cycle with One and Only and nutrients ran fairly high (~ 20 PPM No3, .1 PPT Po4). At the 3 month mark I started getting cyano, tried manual removal which was a losing battle and eventually started dosing Microbacter 7 and Clean. Nutrients bottomed rapidly adding Dinos to the mix. I have been fighting both going on 5 months now (tank is now 8 months old) and have tried everything I can think of. I have little consumption of nitrates and hold at 10 PPM but phosphate consumption is .03 per day and I am dosing Neophos daily to hold Po4 at .08 PPM. The Dinos disappear from the sand completely at night (which made me think they are Ostreopsis, but they have no bubbles and aren’t stringy at all). Maybe it’s Amphidinium? I’ve tried using a microscope but honestly all I saw in the scope was the cyano. I’m not dealing with cyano alone, however, as I can clearly see a few small mats of dark red cyano on the rocks alongside this brown sludge on the sand. Also, water source is RODI, filters changed according to schedule and is 0 TDS.

What I have tried that hasn’t worked:

3 day full blackout (lights out and covered tank): Did nothing

Dosing Microbacter 7 and Waste Away: Dosed together for 2 weeks at full strength and did nothing to the Dino but irritated corals and removed some of the cyano

Daily syphon sand through 5 micron sock and blowing off rocks: I did this daily for 2 months and stopped a week ago. Removes them for the day then they always come back strong the next.

24 watt UV: Been running 24/7 for 2 weeks, water is super clear now but Dinos remain

Any ideas on where I go from here? I’m tired of looking at the tank the way it is but I’m also done throwing chemicals and equipment at this that clearly aren’t working.

 

[Kmst80]

You're doing the right thing. I would get a cheap microscope to determine which dino you are fighting.
Apart from what you are doing I dosed silicates to promote diatom growth.
Think about culturing and adding phyto as well as copepods.
Wouldn't worry about cyano right now.
Keep at it, my fight lasted half a year.

 

[Auburn866]

You're doing the right thing. I would get a cheap microscope to determine which dino you are fighting.
Apart from what you are doing I dosed silicates to promote diatom growth.
Think about culturing and adding phyto as well as copepods.
Wouldn't worry about cyano right now.
Keep at it, my fight lasted half a year.

I was able to get a microscope and get a look at them, definitely Dino but can't tell if it's Prorocentrum or Amphidinium, any thoughts? I'm leaning toward Prorocentrum as I can't see a defined "beak". Sorry for the low quality photos, I couldn't get the videos to load

 

[Kmst80]

Check out this pdf in tarichas I'd thread, very informative.
I had prorocentrum and fought them forever. The tide turned when I started dosing sodium silicate.

Dinoflagellate Identification Guide

I've had this laying around for a while. Had some recent interest, so I tweaked it a bit and am posting it. Not really about cures just ID pictures, videos, and a few short facts. Hope it can be helpful.

www.reef2reef.com

 

[DaScubaSteve]

My nutrients bottomed out and I had a Dino outbreak after cleaning my sandbed. Search Elegant corals, they have a regime that I have used in the past and it works.

UV in tank 1 watt per 3 gallons (I am running a jebao 36 watt for my hundred gallon with a sicce pump right in the tank for now $86 dollars on amazon)

Bubble Scrub the tank ( Get a wooden airstone and place it in the return section of your sump or wrap it around a power head) Every night I blow the rocks off with a maxijet suspending the dino in the water column while the bubbles bring it down the overflow, I run my bubbles at night only but you can run them 24/7 with no harm

Get 5 MICRON Socks. Collect all the bubble scrubbed dinos and catch them in 5 micron socks, they will clog 2 to three times a day. I hose them off in the slop sink with a garden hose attachment twice a day Afternoon and before bed.

Jake Adams (rip) was on a podcast once and says to dose Iron, (the cohosts agreed and made it sound like a magic bullet) One guy said he dosed it before going on a week vacation and when he came back the dinos were gone/ I dosed some Iron two days ago seems to have helped, algae started to grow better.

Try for red field ratio with nutrients

Dose silicates (water glass) Loud wolf sells a safe silicate product. I've been dosing the Brightwell silicates about 40 drops a day for 3 days, I don't see diatoms yet, supposedly the Brightwell stuff is very diluted.

I got a 3d reef uv wand for the sand bed, it helped but the next day they were right back. I used it maybe 6 or 7 times maybe it put a good dent in the pop count after all.

Lastly, which I have yet to do, is to dose bacteria and Vodka to get them abundant, Only do this if you bubble scrub because a bacteria bloom can cause low oxygen. Elegant Corals regime is big on this

I now have much more cyano and a little dinos and its been about 10 days. I think I will try to add bacteria like dr tims waste away, siphon the sand, and keep nutrients stable and it should clear on its own.

Hammer those dinos hard constantly blow them off, bubble scrub and clean 5micron filters, run the UV and you will eradicate them BE PERSISTENT.

PS this guys approach seems like something different than what you tried:

I won against Prorocentrum Dinos, here is how.

Hi everyone. Been battling Dinos for a few months and I have finally decimated them. So I wanted to share what I did in case anyone find this information useful. The thank is a 75 gallon. I mostly have soft corals with a few LPS and SPS, I have very high nutrients: Nitrate around 50 and...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Auburn866]

For a month I've been overdosing silica, phyto, and alternating Microbacter 7 and Microbe Lift bacteria. Now I have Dino and diatoms, both seem to be thriving. Tank is looking rough.

 

[Auburn866]

I Decided to try the UV Sweeper by 3D reefing to at least reduce the number of Dinos on the sand bed. After the first treatment, the Dinos already appear to be fading in color. Also for the first time my nutrient levels are actually rapidly climbing instead of falling, No3 jumped from 10 to 20 ppm and Po4 jumped from .15 to .29 ppm. Here is the tank after the first treatment.

 

[Kmst80]

I Decided to try the UV Sweeper by 3D reefing to at least reduce the number of Dinos on the sand bed. After the first treatment, the Dinos already appear to be fading in color. Also for the first time my nutrient levels are actually rapidly climbing instead of falling, No3 jumped from 10 to 20 ppm and Po4 jumped from .15 to .29 ppm. Here is the tank after the first treatment.

Are you still doing regular manual removal? That mustard like colour on the sand are diatoms, that's good, means they competing with the dinos.

 

[Auburn866]

Are you still doing regular manual removal? That mustard like colour on the sand are diatoms, that's good, means they competing with the dinos.

No I stopped doing manual removal as that seemed to make it worse and instead just ran it over with the UV Sweeper. I did have some lingering Dinos in the corners of the tank and near the rock where the UV couldn't reach so I've been lightly blowing the sand in attempt to move them. So far the results have been very positive, it looks like it will take at least 3 weeks to completely clear. I've also stopped dosing silica.