Need to raise alkalinity

[Oregon Grown Reef]

Hey @Randy Holmes-Farley,

First off, thank you for all that you do. You're greatly appreciated by everyone here. Without you, a lot of people wouldn't be able to make it in this hobby.

Now that I've kissed the ring on your finger, time for advice. I'm wanting to raise my alkalinity from 6.8 to 8.2-8.5. I'm currently dosing soda ash from BRS based on your recommended concentration. My alk was stable at 8.0-8.3 for a long time. It's been a long time since I've done a water change, but I'm not really wanting to do one yet. I don't have problems with algae or anything. Since I haven't done any water changes in awhile, my nitrates have risen, therefore my alk has lowered. What's the safest increment I can raise alk without causing problems (ie. burnt tips, bleaching)? I'd obviously make up a solution of sodium bicarbonate instead to make the adjustments.

Also, does rising nitrates only affect alkalinity? It's been awhile since I've tested calcium, but I can't imagine it's far off from my salt mix if there is no affect on it.

 

[laverda]

There is a good chance your CA is lower as well if your Alk is low due to coral consumption, not nitrates increases.
I would raise it less than 0.5 Dkh a day.

 

[Hincapiej4]

Wait. Your nitrates are going up, and your alk etc are going down?

You need to do a water change lol...

If you don't want to do that...then test cal, mag, alk. Dose fritz...

You can't just go without water changes and expect magic. You need some type of nitrate export and a way to replenish trace elements, etc....honestly...

 

[redeyejedi]

Very nice words to Randy and its true. But it doesn't sound like it is his ring finger you are kissing lol.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hey @Randy Holmes-Farley,

First off, thank you for all that you do. You're greatly appreciated by everyone here. Without you, a lot of people wouldn't be able to make it in this hobby.

Now that I've kissed the ring on your finger, time for advice. I'm wanting to raise my alkalinity from 6.8 to 8.2-8.5. I'm currently dosing soda ash from BRS based on your recommended concentration. My alk was stable at 8.0-8.3 for a long time. It's been a long time since I've done a water change, but I'm not really wanting to do one yet. I don't have problems with algae or anything. Since I haven't done any water changes in awhile, my nitrates have risen, therefore my alk has lowered. What's the safest increment I can raise alk without causing problems (ie. burnt tips, bleaching)? I'd obviously make up a solution of sodium bicarbonate instead to make the adjustments.

Also, does rising nitrates only affect alkalinity? It's been awhile since I've tested calcium, but I can't imagine it's far off from my salt mix if there is no affect on it.

Thanks.

I'd suggest raising it by 0.4 dKH per day is OK. Demand will rise as the alk rises.

If nitrate rises by 50 ppm, alkalinity is depleted by 2.3 dKH. The same is true in reverse. A decline of 50 ppm nitrate (or dosing of that much over time at a constant value) boosts alkalinity by 2.3 dKH.

 

[Oregon Grown Reef]

Thanks.

I'd suggest raising it by 0.4 dKH per day is OK. Demand will rise as the alk rises.

If nitrate rises by 50 ppm, alkalinity is depleted by 2.3 dKH. The same is true in reverse. A decline of 50 ppm nitrate (or dosing of that much over time at a constant value) boosts alkalinity by 2.3 dKH.

Thanks, Randy! .4dkh it is!

 

[Oregon Grown Reef]

Wait. Your nitrates are going up, and your alk etc are going down?

You need to do a water change lol...

If you don't want to do that...then test cal, mag, alk. Dose fritz...

You can't just go without water changes and expect magic. You need some type of nitrate export and a way to replenish trace elements, etc....honestly...

This comment makes it sound like you're still in the learning stages. My trace elements are being replenished through dosing. My corals needs haven't changed at all. After the nitrate stabilized, which it did, the alk doesn't continue to lower. It's been stable for quite some time. I'd rather not do a water change, just to have the nitrates creep back up to where they are, and have another swing in alk. If I see a problem in color/growth, maybe then I'll do a change, but so far things are growing like weeds.

 

[Guy714]

Carbon dosing can also help with the nitrate issue.

 

[Oregon Grown Reef]

Carbon dosing can also help with the nitrate issue.

I've never had good luck with carbon dosing. My tank always winds up with mass amounts of cyano. I'm thinking about building a "DIY" chaeto reactor by siliconing LED's to my Aquamaxx hob 1.5 skimmer and removing the internal components. It's not going to be enough to keep things ultra low, but it'll be enough to stop things from raising too much. Just checked the phosphates today. They're marginally high at .11, but not enough to make me want to throw everything else out of whack for it. Maybe I wait to dose alk until I give the chaeto a week or so to grow.

 

[laverda]

I think you would get better results converting it to an ATS. For some ideas see my thread Under $30 ATS

 

[Hincapiej4]

This comment makes it sound like you're still in the learning stages. My trace elements are being replenished through dosing. My corals needs haven't changed at all. After the nitrate stabilized, which it did, the alk doesn't continue to lower. It's been stable for quite some time. I'd rather not do a water change, just to have the nitrates creep back up to where they are, and have another swing in alk. If I see a problem in color/growth, maybe then I'll do a change, but so far things are growing like weeds.

Learning stages? Ok, let's see.

What are you dosing that's replenishing trace elements?

Why would nitrates creep back up after a water change?

"I'm wanting to raise my alkalinity from 6.8 to 8.2-8.5. I'm currently dosing soda ash from BRS based on your recommended concentration. My alk was stable at 8.0-8.3 for a long time."

Meaning your current way you're running your tank is not keeping up. Sorry to tell you, but my reading comprehension is up to par. I take offense to being low key called an idiot or "learning stages" when I'm using your own information you gave me.

Try again.
Why would you have a swing in alk from a water change?

I thought you said your alk was low and you wanted to bring it up to 8.something?

 

[Hincapiej4]

Tbh, you sound like the learner here..

You're worrying about nitrates creeping back up, and you want some magic answer, but it's pretty simple. Increase your export or decrease your import.

Aka, feed less or lengthen your light time in your refugium. Carbon dose..or *gasp* do water changes every week until your coral catch up with your import....

Clean your sump more? Clean your sand more? Clean up crew to clean rotting foods..
I mean.. what else you want? Me to come over and do your maintenance for you?

 

[Oregon Grown Reef]

Learning stages? Ok, let's see.

What are you dosing that's replenishing trace elements?

Why would nitrates creep back up after a water change?

"I'm wanting to raise my alkalinity from 6.8 to 8.2-8.5. I'm currently dosing soda ash from BRS based on your recommended concentration. My alk was stable at 8.0-8.3 for a long time."

Meaning your current way you're running your tank is not keeping up. Sorry to tell you, but my reading comprehension is up to par. I take offense to being low key called an idiot or "learning stages" when I'm using your own information you gave me.

Try again.
Why would you have a swing in alk from a water change?

I thought you said your alk was low and you wanted to bring it up to 8.something?

I didn't call you an idiot. Not knowing something doesn't make you an idiot.

Nitrates rise in my tank and stabilize around 15-20 because of the amount of feeding I do now. When I do a water change, it lowers the nitrates in my tank, but they creep back up to 15-20. Because of that increase in nitrates, my alk is therefore lowered again. I know what to add for alk, I just wanted to know the safest amount I could increase it daily.

There's no reason for me to post any of the other supplements in the question as they have nothing to do with the answer I need. However, to entertain you, this is what I'm currently dosing: https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/brs-pharma-balling-method-bulk-total-package-bulk-reef-supply.html

There's no need for me to do a water change to lower nitrates just to end up back where I'm at.

Summary: A water change would slightly bump up alk, but as the nitrates return, I'm back at square one. I also don't like being called low key lazy for thinking "magic" happens in my tank. Lol.

 

[Oregon Grown Reef]

Tbh, you sound like the learner here..

You're worrying about nitrates creeping back up, and you want some magic answer, but it's pretty simple. Increase your export or decrease your import.

Aka, feed less or lengthen your light time in your refugium. Carbon dose..or *gasp* do water changes every week until your coral catch up with your import....

Clean your sump more? Clean your sand more? Clean up crew to clean rotting foods..
I mean.. what else you want? Me to come over and do your maintenance for you?

I'm not worried about nitrates creeping up. My nitrates are fine where they're at. I'm worried about doing a water change, then having alk drop again because of nitrates rising back to their stable levels. There's no need for me to do a water change if my nutrient levels aren't out of whack.

How did this turn into me being worried about nitrate?

 

[Hincapiej4]

I guess we both did something neither liked. *** for tat.

Well, your nitrates are just going to do that. Its what happens until your export is dialed in. You can try using tropic Marin synbiotic. It'll carbon dose for you and a bunch of other things that help.

Try lengthening your photo period in your refugium.

 

[Hincapiej4]

Well, just dose your alk in the new water to the parameter you want..

Though, maybe your tank is trying to tell you something and you should listen..what's your cal doin? Mag?

 

[Hincapiej4]

I'm not worried about nitrates creeping up. My nitrates are fine where they're at. I'm worried about doing a water change, then having alk drop again because of nitrates rising back to their stable levels. There's no need for me to do a water change if my nutrient levels aren't out of whack.

How did this turn into me being worried about nitrate?

Well if your convinced that your nitrate is affecting your alk...then your worry is both alk and no3..how does that not make sense??

 

[Hincapiej4]

Also, it can be co2 affecting ph affecting your alk...

 

[Oregon Grown Reef]

Well if your convinced that your nitrate is affecting your alk...then your worry is both alk and no3..how does that not make sense??

I'm not worried about either. My demand is static at this time at my current nutrient level. If ph was a factor here, then my alk would continue to drop because my corals would have a higher demand due to increased ph. This post was not meant to be a discussion on my nutrient levels or my frequency of water changes. It was only meant to ask how much I could raise my dKh without ill effects.

I explained to @Randy Holmes-Farley my reason for the decrease in alk, which he understood, and then promptly gave me the answer.

 

[Hincapiej4]

Meh, anything I have to say here is just gonna keep this thread going, and I'm over it. Have a good day, good luck with the ALK increase.

Also you had someone else gave you the answer, which you seemingly ignored. Why not just directly PM the person you wanted the answer from? People are weird man.