Neptune SKY LED

[flourishofmediocrity]

Do not have analytics on anything except for pricing, power, LED count. Pricing is in line with other 200 W leds:

SKY: $870 (219 W, 104 LEDs)
Orphek: $770 (160 W, 42 LEDs) to $1100 (210 W, 78 LEDs)
XR30: $840 (205-215W, 102 LEDs)
Kessil a500x: $740 (185 W, 100 LEDs)
CC: $900 (170 W, 68 LEDs)
GHL: $820 (195 W, 72 LEDs)

Everything else is speculation until we see the #’s. The only place that has given a consistent data set of data on a broad set of lights is BRS... so that is the video I am looking forward too.

wow, thanks for scraping that data together... I agree on the data from BRS. Marc did put par numbers that he and Terrance measured in the video, but that's pretty specific to his reef, but you do get an idea of what it can do. He also mentioned there is a bit of shimmer.

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

It’ll be funny if they took something from Phillips. Pretty dumb to poke a giant world-wide tech company.

Terrance said in Marc's video that Phillips supplies the LED's... Phillips is so big, a tiny company in comparison like Neptune is just a way to sell more LED's. Phillips is fine to take Neptune's money and give them LED's.... That's my take...

Sound's like phillips LED's are heat sink cooled and sky is fan cooled... the latter much lighter...

It also seems Sky has neptune functionality and that's neptunes contribution....

 

[SilverReefer]

I love Neptune and what they have done for our hobby, I had high hopes it was going to be on the next level, but after seeing the new "Sky/Philips CoralCare Gen 2 " lights and videos from Marc and Duane of them in action, I will remain on the Kessil train and probably look at the buying the Kessil AP9x or the Ghl mitras.

 

[SilverReefer]

I love Neptune and what they have done for our hobby, I had high hopes it was going to be on the next level, but after seeing the new "Sky/Philips CoralCare Gen 2 " lights and videos from Mark and Duane of them in action, I will remain on the Kessil train and probably look at the buying the Kessil AP9x or the Ghl mitras.

I also Hate the Orange

 

[A. grandis]

I dont understand... how do you test the gaps in spectrum missing from LEDs if not with a spectrometer?

You don't. Common sense tell me the way light is produced and distributed from both types will dictate how those spectra are different by nature. There are people who understand this deeply, but still can't actually publish the real differences, proving with papers.

 

[zalick]

I've heard you get about a 50% discount in the Neptune NSI.

Marc is an old-school reefer and he tends to stick to his tried and trusted equipment even if they are old.

He was happy with his old skimmer until he got the Nyos to review just like he was happy with his halides until he got a Sky to review.

I’ve read 50-80%.

and I believe that’s to use and provide feedback. Just like any other beta testing program.

This production from Marc was much more than feedback and gave Neptune far more value as can be seen by the publicity it’s generated. In exchange I assume Marc got them for free. But we will never know....

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

I’ve read 50-80%.

and I believe that’s to use and provide feedback. Just like any other beta testing program.

This production from Marc was much more than feedback and gave Neptune far more value as can be seen by the publicity it’s generated. In exchange I assume Marc got them for free. But we will never

Given the amount of editing and work that infomercial was, Marc should have gotten them for free....

I believe he is sincere is his opinion... and deserves (based on decades of videos, etc..) products from companies and that type of work... like another said... Gives him something to do to take his mind off his significant other passing away and I hope he stays with cranking out the work and videos...

 

[Jon's Reef]

You don't. Common sense tell me the way light is produced and distributed from both types will dictate how those spectra are different by nature. There are people who understand this deeply, but still can't actually publish the real differences, proving with papers.

Could you elaborate? Generally the “spectrum” is taken as the distribution of photons with energy ranging from 380-780 nm, which has been shown to be the range that zooxanthellae respond to. The spectrometer that BRS uses has a resolution of ~1 nm and FWHM of ~10 nm.

IMHO the difference between sources is the 420 nm range, unfortunately lacking in both G5 and Sky, but present in kessil x series as a separate violet channel)
Here is the spectrum of a few lights:
The sun as a function of depth (NOAA)

MH (Thread 'Radium vs Hamilton 20k spectrum'
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/radium-vs-hamilton-20k-spectrum.336497/ )

T5 blue plus:

Sky spectrum:

XR30 G5 Blue (AB+, tall peak is 450 nm, red peak is 650 nm)

Kessil (a360x, guessing a500x is similar)

Orphek Atlantik 4v2

Distribution of the light is a different topic. There is some data from BRS on uniformity, but generally aquascaping has the greatest effect and it is regarded that a source the size of the tank is best. MH has the benefit of a point and distributed source. I think that Ryan at BRS has the right idea that the key is to combine bright point sources with a broad illumination source. This is where LED can do better than MH. With MH the same spectrum is distributed from the point and the reflector. With LED you can have a white bright spot (ex kessil) and a blue fill light (ex Reef Brite) which mimics the white sun and blue sky.

 

[oreo54]

You don't. Common sense tell me the way light is produced and distributed from both types will dictate how those spectra are different by nature. There are people who understand this deeply, but still can't actually publish the real differences, proving with papers.

Pure bs till proof is shown

Find the spikes...
solis-2c
Start at pg 76
Data for LED in below:

Thorlabs - SOLIS-2C High-Power LED for Microscopy, 3000 K (Warm White), 3.2 W (Min)

Thorlabs specializes in the building blocks for laser and fiber optic systems. From optomechanical components to telecom test instrumentation, Thorlabs' extensive manufacturing capabilities allow us to ship high quality, well priced components and devices for next-day delivery. Optomechanics...

www.thorlabs.com

Same equip. and same smoothing as one measuring a MH..

 

[MasterChief]

I love all the arm chair scientists and old men hugging their metal halides....

 

[Kfactor]

I love all the arm chair scientists and old men hugging their metal halides....

Best place to be comfortable holding my metal halides with all companies trying to mimic the best lol

 

[reefiniteasy]

Terrance said in Marc's video that Phillips supplies the LED's... Phillips is so big, a tiny company in comparison like Neptune is just a way to sell more LED's. Phillips is fine to take Neptune's money and give them LED's.... That's my take...

Sound's like phillips LED's are heat sink cooled and sky is fan cooled... the latter much lighter...

It also seems Sky has neptune functionality and that's neptunes contribution....

Edit: I have deleted my comments as my opinion on the issue lacks no basis and I don’t want to be the cause of an argument.

 

[revhtree]

I have removed several posts and posts that quoted those posts. Flaming people or companies, being rude and calling names isn’t acceptable here at R2R. Other platforms may be more appropriate for flaming people and companies, NOT R2R. You are welcome to offer your opinion in a respectful way. Anything other than that will be addressed.

Thanks.

 

[C. Eymann]

I spoke with Terrence about the Sky and did a short interview on water chems in their farm tour video today and Im actually looking forward to seeing how it does.
I started using halides in 2001 and still love them, sure many are doing their best to replicate them with LEDs yes but practicality comes into play too, plus you can't achieve the coloration in some corals with halides that you can with LED.
I can't give any criticism on the the light yet as I haven't seen results first hand, but I like the design and spread. Look forward to seeing how it does over some of our corals when we get a chance to play around with it , any innovation in the hobby is a good thing as I see it.

 

[zalick]

.

 

[stephj03]

I actually like this move. Coral Care is a great light but based on how the roll out has gone, Phillips just doesn't have a heart for the American market.

So why not OEM/Co-Dev deal with someone who does (Neptune)?

I like it that Neptune chose a market leader at the component level instead of whoever they did the Wav and Feeder with.

 

[stephj03]

The real comparison isn't to CC, but rather to Straton IMO. Phillips just isn't behind the CC Enough to unseat Radion in the U.S.

But I could see ATI putting a sustained effort behind Straton. If Sky holds up well against them, they could sell pretty big IMO.

 

[stephj03]

I never thought I'd say this but I actually think the panel form factor has peaked/maxed out.

And bc of that I would have liked Sky to:

1. Have honest SPS dominant level of power density on board.

Keep the same footprint but go to 300w, so that when it's run at 75% I get a much closer rival to MH (spread and blend with minimal shadows and SPS PAR over the full 2'*2').

Or

2. Move on to what will replace panels: controllable bars and racks/mounts with integrated power so I can put 3 -5 rows on a tank without visible cords.

But I get it, this was a safe move to a decidedly better layout than Radion on any Considerable footprint.

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

I totally disagree with you. They may be using Phillips LEDs but the design appears to be a clear use of Philips’ patent and design.

What are u disagreeing with? Didnt i say neptune is using phillips led's... isnt phillips just getting paid by Neptune so neptune can use their leds/patent/technology?.

I see it as phillips is making a buck with neptune in a partnership.... no?

phillips makes money on their leds in both lights... why would they care if the (ugly) neptune logo is one of them?

 

[A. grandis]

Could you elaborate? Generally the “spectrum” is taken as the distribution of photons with energy ranging from 380-780 nm, which has been shown to be the range that zooxanthellae respond to. The spectrometer that BRS uses has a resolution of ~1 nm and FWHM of ~10 nm.

IMHO the difference between sources is the 420 nm range, unfortunately lacking in both G5 and Sky, but present in kessil x series as a separate violet channel)
Here is the spectrum of a few lights:
The sun as a function of depth (NOAA)

MH (Thread 'Radium vs Hamilton 20k spectrum'
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/radium-vs-hamilton-20k-spectrum.336497/ )

T5 blue plus:

Sky spectrum:

XR30 G5 Blue (AB+, tall peak is 450 nm, red peak is 650 nm)

Kessil (a360x, guessing a500x is similar)

Orphek Atlantik 4v2

Distribution of the light is a different topic. There is some data from BRS on uniformity, but generally aquascaping has the greatest effect and it is regarded that a source the size of the tank is best. MH has the benefit of a point and distributed source. I think that Ryan at BRS has the right idea that the key is to combine bright point sources with a broad illumination source. This is where LED can do better than MH. With MH the same spectrum is distributed from the point and the reflector. With LED you can have a white bright spot (ex kessil) and a blue fill light (ex Reef Brite) which mimics the white sun and blue sky.

Sure... I think what I'm about to write could definitely help people to understand why halides are really the king of lights and why it's so safe to use at the same time. The sunlight is much stronger and also safe when used accordingly!
The range of spectrum utilized by zooxanthellae for photosynthesis is kinda wide (full spectrum), and the processes involved aren't only confined between ~380-~780nm as some may think. Those processes are somehow connected and dependent on variables in the ocean's shallow water. I still believe there is a huge amount of data to be discovered!!! That is the main reason why I say practical experience is the best way to "prove" things!
Photoinhibition is most of the time controlled in the natural environment (read the ocean) with water temperature and water chemistry stability. Natural environment also allows many types of responses and processes with a perfect selection of position/location, geographic selection, of corals in balance (natural selection) and with the natural "stable" and well balanced DLI so the colonies can thrive in areas that we would normally call "harsh environments". Daily variables play also big time.

For example: some corals have a relatively low onset saturation point. Those corals also will have a low onset inhibition point. Why such corals still can survive extreme higher amounts of PAR without being destroyed? For example: Porites lobata (zooxanthellae clade C15 - onset Saturation Point: ~250 µmol·m²·second and onset Photoinhibition Point: ~350 µmol·m²·second) can support PAR levels of near ~500 -1500 µmol·m²·second during low tide in a tide pool and still live very healthy for many years. We often see another species of Porites, P. lutea, (with the same zooxanthellae clade C15) , in the same environment we find P. lobata. P. lutea has a different pigmentation and it's Onset Saturation Point is ~400 µmol·m²·second, while it's Onset Photoinhibition Point: ~750 µmol·m²·second. There is more than just that. The zooxanthellae in P. lutea has a thermally resistant and will tolerate higher water temperature. Selectively, in tide pools, we still can find both corals really healthy independent of the amount of red light and IR or extreme PAR rates received daily. Temperature of water and a perfect position will allow P. lobata to be well in tide pools that receive constant water exchange to cool the environment. We can see also many algae that depends on cool water in those areas. P. lutea can be found in areas where the water temperature is a bit higher and uncomfortably warm. This is to illustrate why it's so important to keep the aquarium cool at about ~78°F, generally speaking. One can use lots of power with MH lamps and still have absolutely perfect environment and amazing color and growth that way. Who says nature saves energy???

How Much Light?! Analyses of Selected Shallow Water Invertebrates’ Light Requirements

Dana examines the optimal amounts of light required for select stony corals, soft coral and a Tridacna clam, and is intended to complement his previous article 'Too Much Light!' (July 2004).

reefs.com

400W 10K halides + 8 X 24" and 2 X 24" Actinic VHOs


3 X 600W HQI


I don't think I can put much better than the way I wrote in the first post.
Tullio also mentioned that in one of the videos, but when I asked him about it he didn't go much further into the subject. There must be papers somewhere for him to mentioned that! I've already tried to talk to him 2 times about that. It must be a very complex process.

With MH, simply the way the light is produced by using gases will offer a totally different type of spectrum than by LEDs, by nature. If you look at the spectrum charts you pasted in your post you will see a huge difference between them and every single one has it's particular signature. The Orphek fixtures use UV and IR diodes to mimic a bit what metal halides (and sunlight) offers, and also T5s. Orphek uses LEDs for that matter, which is a different process to produce photons, simply. The process the sun produces light also involve gases. The difference between Orphek and halides is also the intensity and the LED matrix. Orphek implemented those UV and IR diodes because of a study done in Germany using their IR LEDs based on the needs for the corals. I can't find that study! I have communicated with Ofir (Orphek) for multiple times about this and all he give me is what they have on their website about Emerson Effect today (below). He doesn't have the study. The German link is down. I also have tried to talk to Dana about it, but had no success in going too deep into the subject. He is very busy right now, so...

Basically speaking Emerson Effect is the increase in the rate in photosynthesis after the chloroplasts are exposed to wavelength of 680nm and more than 680nm (red light and far red combined). That way, the rate of photosynthesis obtained is greater than the red and the far-red combined. That is the reason why metal halides are so efficient when applied in the right proportions. Even when an excess of light intensity is well distributed, with the right reflection, water temperature and water motion, the strong radiation from metal halides can still offer a very safe amount of excess quality light to the corals and ALL the organisms in the system, after proper adaptation.

Tullio have said that the amount of UV produced by metal halides is basically impossible to be reproduced by any LED, so that is another reason why metal halides will never be defeated by LEDs in that respect.

The spectrum in between the PAR range isn't all we should offer to captive corals. That is the main difference and the reason why we see higher growth rates and unique pigments' formation from halides.
Pigments also depend on proper nutrition, like trace elements and amino acids, feeding the corals osmotrophically. But there are pigments that only proper light will enhance/produce.

This is just one of the "real" information we have about IR and reef aquarium application to achieve the best we can, often called "optimal" IMO...
Here is what Orphek has on their website ( I will paste here just in case something happen to their website years from now, link is below):



March 26, 2017

Infrared penetration into water, Emerson effect, Orphek Atlantik V4 new spectrum​

ORPHEK CHANGING HISTORY!​

We are very happy to announce that now we have the research to share with you about our new spectrum and the penetration of infrared into the water.


Till today you heard that in general infrared light from 780 nm can no longer penetrate the water. In addition, that light waves above 780 Nm are no longer perceptible to the human eye.


Well, not according to Ronny Schöpke from the German reef website www.salzwasserwelten.de who ran un experiment using the premises of Emerson and a combination of 2 Orphek 850 Nm Leds (5 watt) and 1 Orphek wide Red (5watt).

The results of this experiment leads to the following conclusion: The measurement with the Ocean optics Flame spectrometer thus proved that the wavelengths of 850 Nm in the infrared range penetrate easily through 60 cm salt water 35 PSI. A filter effect of 950 Nm was also found. The penetration of 850 nm would explain fluorescence measurements and absorption measurements, which often led to measurement data in the infrared range. Infrared therefore seems important similar to UV and UV. Just in the dark light of synthesis.


Thank you Ronny Schöpke for bringing this update information on infrared penetration and the possibility to show once more that Orphek is always ahead in its technological developments!


To read and check the entire experiment please enter to INFRARED LIGHT USABLE?


Orphek Atlantik V4 Aquarium LED lighting is proven to be the most technologically advanced with the highest performance level and maximum photochemical efficiency!


Our newest Atlantik V4 combines 16 new types of custom made dual core LEDs in the nanometer range from 380nm to 850nm for maximum photochemical efficiency.

So Infrared 850nm is one of the new improvements?​

Orphek innovations are mostly focused on the research to improve LED light spectrums and by doing so we have been a leader in the market for years.


The starting point of this new Orphek product started with the idea of developing a new LED Lighting solution that would mimic Nature by providing spectrums that are present in a natural environment.


Sun light provides a range of wavelengths and different lengths of light waves do not penetrate through the water equally. Red light is the first to be filtered out and can only penetrate a short distance. If you look at a coral reef in Nature you will notice that shallow reef corals live in warm waters.


The idea was to add to the ATLANTIK V4 enough infrared color to satisfy coral of all habitats. This new development isn’t something that happened overnight. A year of testing and experimenting went into this project before we were convinced that we came up with the ultimate spectrum for growing coral and the added benefit of viewing the coral with a more natural look.


The new ATLANTIK V4 LED Panel contains 16 new types of custom made dual core LEDs in the nanometer range from 380nm to 850nm.


Check our new ratio:





if you need more details:

Why the New ATLANTIK V4 is the best product Orphek has produced today?​

• 16 new types of custom made dual core LEDs in the nanometer range from 380nm to 850nm.
• Renders most natural appearance to the tank form 10K to 50K
• Provides enough RED and IR LEDs needed
• Contains Full dimming capacity in all channels, 0-100% with progressive dimming.
• Provides IoT technology & Free apps available (App Store & Google play)
• Gives the ability to control and program 200+ individual units!

What else Orphek is offering you that others are not?​

• A LED light that is made of full body acrylic. Our light is not only solid and durable, but also beautiful to display.
• A LED light that has a length of 24.21” (615mm), a width of 9.37” (238mm) and a height of 2.11” (53.6mm) .
• A LED light that comes not with any driver, but with Mean Well driver (model HLG-240H-48A) – we give you what the market has best to offer!
• A LED light that comes with a customized plug for your region.
• A LED light that comes with a hanging kit with no extra costs.

---

FEATURES​

PROGRAM/CONTROL/MONITORING (IoT)


CHECK ATLANTIK V4 VERSATILITY AND WHAT IT CAN DO FOR YOU!


Connectivity & Monitorning

• Built- in Wireless Worldwide Remote and Local programming, control and monitoring
• Compatible with Wi-Fi/ 3G and 4G Internet connectivity
• Compatible with IOS (Iphone and Ipad) and Android (Cell and tablet)
• Free apps available (App Store & Google play)

Programming

• Ability to program multiple Atlantiks individually, in groups or in unison.
• Eight pre-installed programs/ unlimited custom programs and group programming.
• Large storage with capacity for additional programs.
• Full dimming capacity in all channels, 0-100% with progressive dimming.

LEDS & LENS​

CHECK THE NEW SPECTRUM FOR OPTIMAL CORAL BEAUTY, GROWTH, COLOR & HEALTH!

• New 78 customized high efficiency 5w Dual-Chip power LEDs – total of 156 individual LEDs.
• New 16 different types of Dual chip wide range LEDs. 380nm UV to 850nm Infra red!
• First company to introduce the Infra red 850nm
• New Spectrum for better coral growth, color and health.
• Four separate control and programming channels.
• Lens Options: Wide convex for tanks under 42” deep and 90 degree narrow for tanks over 48” deep.

SPECTRUM & EFFICIENCY​

• Highest PAR/PUR per watt.
• Highest Spectrum output.
• High efficiency power supply.

CHECK WHAT COMES WITH YOUR LIGHT! (INCLUDED)

• Power cord with waterproof connector
• Stainless steel hanging kit
• Driver
• Mean well Fan-less IP65 power supply

If you wish to know more about this product click on the ATLANTIK V4 PRODUCT PAGE


If you are also from Europe or any country around the globe and you are also wishing to:

• Improve the quality of life of your corals and marine species
• Install a neat and easy to clean fixture
• Own not only a conceptual design LED light solution, but a true color & growth technology

We will be very happy to find the best Orphek LED Lights for your tank.



FROM:

Infrared penetration into water, Emerson effect, Orphek Atlantik V4 new spectrum •Orphek

ORPHEK CHANGING HISTORY! We are very happy to announce that now we have the research to share with you about our new spectrum and the penetration of infrared into the water. Till today you heard that in general infrared light from 780 nm can no longer penetrate the water. In addition, that light...

orphek.com

I want to give the credit to @jda for this because he was the first one I know mentioning the subject. He also believe in the importance of the UV keeping corals.
Most LEDs' companies know about what I'm posting here. That is why they added "UV" diodes to their fixtures.