Neptune System Yay or Nay?

[AcanthurusRex]

Ad hominems don't impact my ability to give unbiased information or spread truth. Quite frankly, you insult my intelligence. I am not only a computer scientist, but I am profoundly gifted. I used to have an Apex. I tore it apart to figure out exactly what was running it, before selling it and realizing that they're simply the only company that has taken the risk....soon they won't be.

I am a computer scientist, I graduated magna *** laude, and I received the highest calculus 1,2,3 scores of any student at my University, with over 100% (professors all gave extra credit questions on exams).

I certainly know my way around numbers, which is the building block of anything computer-oriented.

I'm telling you how it is. Many people would rather pay the exhorbitant price for convenience and "ease" of use even though they make you program the thing by yourself anyway using their procedural, declarative psuedo-language.

Please continue telling me about how my opinion doesn't matter and that it's comical even though it's based on science.

I'm impressed!!! So grateful that you can spare just a few cycles.

 

[scott11106]

well, I am pretty sure we successfully killed this topic so to recap :
1. if you can afford a controller it is a great option but not required
2. pick the controller you feel is right for you and buy it now or set your timers and move on
3. start a new thread for best BBQ in the Reef2reef world

 

[dsh92056]

Didn't know if I wanted to take the Neptune plunge. I tried to way out pros and cons and still didn't know if it was worth it to take the plunge. A fellow reefer told me I needed to get one and tried to explain the reasons why and it just made it more confusing if I should get one. I finally pulled the trigger and purchased one about a year and a half ago. I love it. I think what I love most about it is that I can go away for a week and not have to worry about anything and be able to control my tank remotely from my phone, laptop, or ipad. There are other things I love about it but it's really just too many to mention. I would get one again if the need arises.

 

[User1]

I'm looking into uprading my system next year and was very impressed with the various features of the neptune. Would you recommend.. Tank is a 180g with 60g sump. Not sure if my dosing pumps and lights are apex compatible tho.

If you like off the shelf products then Apex or say GHL are both solid choices. Read their briefs and see which one will meet "your" needs. In my opinion that is the best advise I can give you. You should know what you want to do, your growth plans, thoughts on if you are going with x type of lighting, automated dosing, control, etc. Then you read up on Apex, then on GHL, and see how their ecosystem(s) could help you manage your requirements. Really comes down to that. What are your requirements and then see which fits the best. If it turns out you don't have a requirement list then I'd say don't worry about a controller now.

Keep in mind a controller isn't necessary much like a skimmer isn't necessary. People will tell you they are but like some have said here they have run successful tanks without. See the pattern? What works for one user may not work for another let alone be required. And if you are to match my build in the end your tank may, or may not, look has good as mine. Yours may in turn look better than mine.

If you are a DIY sort of person, know some basic programming skills, and want to just mess around while your tank matures then you can go with one of the Pi packages. Or, check out the Reef Angel. It is a pretty amazing library set which keeps me using it today although I have most of everything else controlled by a Apex. I've been using the Neptune ecosystem since 2001, then switched to Reef Angel, then employ both Apex and the Reef Angel now.

I'm not here to generate more noise but just wanted to say they are nice to have but not mandatory. The key is what you want one for. That requirement list. Then it is just a matter of deciding what one works for you. Don't let me tell you other than suggest the two larger units on the market today (Apex/GHL) and a good open source or two :)

 

[scott11106]

My display is different than yours. How did you get to this from the standard display with all the info shown?

post a pic of what you see and i will be able to see the difference..im sure it is just adding your tiles

 

[MPS]

For those of us that are not gifted, computer scientists. I think that having a controller is a good thing. My research came up with little that could compete with the Apex. It’s important to understand that it does have its shortcomings though. I am only 90% satisfied with mine but I would recommend it still. I control my EcoTech pumps and lighting with it, for instance. It’s control of those is not as good as it should be but I’ve been told that is the fault of EcoTech and not Nuptune.
I travel a lot so having a single point of access and control is key. As I am busy, I do not have the time or interest in creating a DIY control system. If you are like me, you need to weight the functionality vs the price to see if the value is worth it to you.
I hope this perspective helps you.

 

[ReeferReefer]

Ad hominems don't impact my ability to give unbiased information or spread truth. Quite frankly, you insult my intelligence. I am not only a computer scientist, but I am profoundly gifted. I used to have an Apex. I tore it apart to figure out exactly what was running it, before selling it and realizing that they're simply the only company that has taken the risk....soon they won't be.

I am a computer scientist, I graduated magna *** laude, and I received the highest calculus 1,2,3 scores of any student at my University, with over 100% (professors all gave extra credit questions on exams).

I certainly know my way around numbers, which is the building block of anything computer-oriented.

I'm telling you how it is. Many people would rather pay the exhorbitant price for convenience and "ease" of use even though they make you program the thing by yourself anyway using their procedural, declarative psuedo-language.

Please continue telling me about how my opinion doesn't matter and that it's comical even though it's based on science.

r/iamverysmart

 

[pelphrey]

I was in the same situation a few years ago, I got a used apex classic and really enjoy it. This was my thought process -

• I needed a way to control the kessil lights I had at the time (VDM port)
• Heater controller & the ability to run 2 heaters off of one controller
• Float switches for fail safes

When I added up the cost of the kessil controller and a heater controller it made sense for me to get the classic. It was a few more bucks but it offered me more for my money.

I don't use it to it's full potential and I have 3 outlets unused. I have the used PH probe that came with it, it reads 2.6 daily I haven't tried to re-calibrate it I probably need a new probe. The PH value really isn't something I pay attention to so I've left it alone. I know my PH stays in the low 8's.

 

[Aquius]

As to the benefits of having a controller, I really think it is a no brainer. The real question is which system to invest in.

Not to start a flame war, but here are my $0.02

I have "looked under the hood" of the Neptune stuff and I was not impressed. There was still flux on the one of the boards... o_O My GHL Doser MAXI and Doser 2.1 electronics are much better quality.

Programming: Depends on what you like. I will say that GHL's interface can be a little kludgey at times, but as an industrial controls guy, I have worked with WAAAY worse. Neptune is a bit better in this regard, and they keep on improving.

Considering I would have spent about the same for each system, I think GHL is more quality for the money. I am not saying Neptune is bad, per se, just that I think GHL's hardware is in a different class from a quality perspective. From what I gather, they are working on their interface, so we will see what we will see there.

(I am running an APEX classic on my nano, and for my 150 build, I am switching over to GHL.)

 

[User1]

I am not saying Neptune is bad, per se, just that I think GHL's hardware is in a different class from a quality perspective.

Interesting point - and one that I'd take note of if I was a Neptune sales or marketing rep. I think I said it in my original reply but I owned one of their earlier controllers dating back to 2001 with the X10 controllers for outlet control. I currently own the Apex and a open source Reef Angel. While I do not own a GHL product I will say that their packaging and design is superior in both looks and finish when comparing it to the Apex side by side. It wasn't enough to make me purchase it but it was something that made me pause.

Small complaint I guess in the grand scheme of things. I'm not saying it is bad either since I own one but I agree with your assessment. The design and circuit layout I find is rather, well, odd and toyish (I know, not a word...).

 

[vetteguy53081]

post a pic of what you see and i will be able to see the difference..im sure it is just adding your tiles

 

[navathehutt]

Sure, so I'll give you context. The price of the system is quite literally insane. They play off of others ignorance...and it works.

It's essentially a $30 mini computer with extra components. Look up Reef-Pi here on the forums. Other people have duplicated the Neptune system because quite frankly it's the farthest thing from revolutionary.

To put it into perspective, when you buy a Neptune product you are buying a Kia. All of the R&D was done by other companies and then they decided to smash them together into their own product and sell them for a 2000% profit margin. When Neptune has done their own R&D (trident) they are unable to actually do so...and disappointing Apex dude-bros everywhere.

My recommendation is to explore Reef-Pi, find out for yourself exactly how ridiculous the cost of an Apex is, and go from there on whether or not you'd rather pay for convenience vs DIY.

Straw Man says you know nothing about programming, then proceeds to say Product A is better than B ? What qualifications does the straw man have on 'programming' ? making a macro in Excel or programming flight computers in C++ ?

 

[MartinWaite]

Firstly if you live in the UK I wouldn't waste my money on an apex unless you travel a lot as Apex will treat you as a second class citizens on a good day. Their customer service in the UK is second to last if they reply to you that is. There Trident product is a prime example of their all talk and little to no action as it has been due for release next quarter for about 2 years and still no sign of it. There is plenty to spend your money on in this hobby without throwing your hard earned cash away where its not needed so I would evaluate why you think you want a one and what else is there out there that will do the job. The likes of Seneye will alert you of a water leak, ph movement etc. Alkatronic will stabilize your Dkh to within 0.05 and with the new Dosatronic will automatically adjust and reset your dosing regime to maintain your Dkh and is all cloud based with some of the best customer support there is out there. Then there's temp controllers out there that give a back up to your heater and stat.

 

[Sppf121]

I love the Apex. I would highly recommend it. Yes it is expensive, but then so is everything in this hobby. It just makes everything easier. The leak detector saved me. I had a refugium leak and the apex not only notified me but more importantly turned the pump off that I have sending water to the refugium . I came home to find just a few OZ of water. No water damage at all. I was amazed. That would not have been the case without the leak detection backing up my float switch which did not activate correctly. Peace if mind is worth it.

 

[Muttley000]

I enjoy my apex 2016. I have an industrial controls background but now manage a dozen programmers. I will tell you the better the programmer the more they think their way is the best lol.

So here is my take:
Is it required? Of course not
Does it make life easier especially if you need to be away? Yes
Is it expensive for what it is? Yes
Is it fun to tinker with? Absolutely and the Wizards make programming easy, but you can then expand to make it as complex as most care to take it.

If I were buying today I would do what I did when I purchased it. Make a list of what you want to accomplish, rate the items on that list by importance to you, see which controller seems to excel at each of those items and make a decision. If I were doing that today I think I would buy Apex again, there have been times I would have gone GHL though too. Either will take great care of you.

Last and most important, white sauce is much better, and go Wings!

 

[vetteguy53081]

I love the Apex. I would highly recommend it. Yes it is expensive, but then so is everything in this hobby. It just makes everything easier. The leak detector saved me. I had a refugium leak and the apex not only notified me but more importantly turned the pump off that I have sending water to the refugium . I came home to find just a few OZ of water. No water damage at all. I was amazed. That would not have been the case without the leak detection backing up my float switch which did not activate correctly. Peace if mind is worth it.

Many classify it as expensive but when you consider the management it provides ( just controlling lights alone ) especially when you are away and 365 days a year- the initial cost diminishes compared to paying someone to watch your tank. And you are able to view activity away from home via fusion.
Now add auto feeder and dosing while away from home, the value grows stronger. Then consider the resale value which is generally 65%..... Better than most components in the hobby.

 

[ca1ore]

I’ve neither the patience, the time, nor the skill to be doing any kind of electronics DIY. Building mechanical stuff, yes; electronics a definite no. If I still lived in Europe I’d have gone with GHL. Since I don’t, I went with Neptune. No more complicated than that.

 

[tiggs]

Ad hominems don't impact my ability to give unbiased information or spread truth. Quite frankly, you insult my intelligence. I am not only a computer scientist, but I am profoundly gifted. I used to have an Apex. I tore it apart to figure out exactly what was running it, before selling it and realizing that they're simply the only company that has taken the risk....soon they won't be.

I am a computer scientist, I graduated magna *** laude, and I received the highest calculus 1,2,3 scores of any student at my University, with over 100% (professors all gave extra credit questions on exams).

I certainly know my way around numbers, which is the building block of anything computer-oriented.

I'm telling you how it is. Many people would rather pay the exhorbitant price for convenience and "ease" of use even though they make you program the thing by yourself anyway using their procedural, declarative psuedo-language.

Please continue telling me about how my opinion doesn't matter and that it's comical even though it's based on science.

Care to share your findings? Coming from someone that's been in the IT field for 19 years (although in management now) and has held senior engineering positions at very large companies, I personally think Apex did a fine job on the software end of things. I have a few gripes on the quality of their hardware and actually prefer GHL hardware (even though I personally use Apex on my system), but I don't think anyone on the controller market is even remotely close to Apex on the software end of things. They have a ton of wizards for the folks that just want to to manually program anything and a decently robust pseudo-language for the people that want to get more advanced with functions. Personally, I think it's a good balance, but I'm always interested in hearing other opinions.

 

[CC13]

If I still lived in Europe I’d have gone with GHL. Since I don’t, I went with Neptune. No more complicated than that.

Same boat why I switched from GHL to APEX.

I do still have an undying love for my Profilux though. Its so well built.

 

[acesfull44]

I would consider myself a novice in both the hobby itself and the Apex world, but I would feel lost without it. I have no programming background, in fact I am lucky to turn my computer on each day. The function options are awesome along with all the different things it can help you do. It's already saved me dozens of times when my ATO overflowed, power went off, etc along with the ease of turning things off and on when doing water changes and feedings. It is expensive, but so is the hobby, so technically you should rethink things if cheap is the planned route for your overall build. The forum they have is just as helpful to Apex users are R2R is to reefers so you always have a back up with help when you get stuck or overwhelmed.