New again to hobby after 10 years off and having problems with corals

[Kevin D]

Hello everyone, I just joined the site and have a new tank again after not having one for about 10 years. My last tank seemed so easy but I’m having troubles and could use some advise. Problems I believe are due to lighting and current, maybe both. So to start off, I’m having issues with a few corals, mainly, I’m not seeing feeding tentacles on almost any of them. Let me start with what I have. This will be a long thread so I’m sorry but I want you all to have a clear picture.

240 gallon tank 8’ long 2’ high with a 125 gallon sump underneath. Have 4 hydra HD 26 lights, have two Jebao DCT 12000 return pumps. Each returns a 1” return pipe from the rear center of the tank and points to the front corner at a 45” angle down and each also returns a 1/2” pipe that blows along the center to the side along the back of the tank. Each pump has a setting from one to ten and both are set on 4. I have good flow but nothing is getting pummeled. I have a eeef octopus skimmer in the sump and lava rock and macro algae in a refugium that has some pink/violet led grow lights.

Water parameters are as follows

Salinity. 1.022
Temp 79
Ammonia, nitrites and nitrates are zero on API test kit. Nitrates are about 2 on Red Sea test kit.

Alkalinity is 8 on API kit and 10.5 on salifert test kit.

Calcium is 400 on API test kit and 480 on salifert test kit.

PH is around 8-8.4 based on the two kits

I have been dosing B-ionic by ESV and coralline stimulator but florida aquaculture. Both were used with great success in my past tanks.

The tank was setup the last week of November of 2017 and fish and corals were added in January this year. Original lighting program was the David Saxby profile.

Contents

Bicolor angel
Potter’s angel
Flame angel
Sand sifting goby
Flame hawk
Fire fish
Lots of snails and blue hermits
Emerald crab and matrix crab
Around 47 different corals
Hammer
Frogspawn
Acropora
Acans
Chalice
Favia
Open brain
Zoe’s
Flower pots
Sunburst
Pretty much a little of everything.

So now the problems. I should note that I had a small leak that was corrected about three weeks ago that caused my auto top-off to drive my salinity down to 1.015. Oddly, I only lost a blue starfish. I have brought salinity back and been stable at 1.022 for about three weeks.

So the main issues is that none of my corals except for a shrinking acan extend feeder tentacles, now my frogspawn and hammers have there tentacles out all day but none of the sps nor most of my acans. I have also recently lost my brain coral. It was mid tank for a month but wouldn’t puff up. I moved it to the sand and for two days it puffed up only at night, within 4 days of that there is pretty much nothing left of it. Skeleton is coming through what’s left of the flesh. My Acropora is spreading at base but never have seen it’s polyps. Have a chalice spreading but another two at the same height in the tank is fading in color. I have three different acans. Two are mid tank one is between mid and bottom. One at mid tank has never shown tentacles but is puffy. Another one about 8 inches away at same height has always shown tentacles and has been eating reef roids but has shrunk to half maybe a quarter it’s original size. The lower one looks ok but has never extended tentacles. All my Zoe’s seem good and star polyps are good. Sps and acans not so much. I have experimented with adjusting my lights and flow. I was told by the people at David saxbys store that I should bump up my lights because his tank has more lights per sq foot at his profile. Then I was told by a local that he uses David’s profile but bumped it down. I just bumped them down today so we will see, also bumped my returns down to the number 3 setting. I will post my theee different lighting profiles below so you guys can give thoughts one which would be best. I started with the middle one, then went to the high one, and today switched to the lower one.

I would appreciate any help before I lose more corals. Thanks.

 

[Kevin D]

Oh and in reference to the lighting profiles I mean the order based on the intensity not the order they are posted. Thanks

 

[Tahoe61]

Bump for assistance.

 

[Waters]

You provided a lot of information which is good....the only thing I am not seeing (unless I missed it) is how long has the tank been set up and what are your phosphate levels at? I have found that maturity and stability to be the most important when keeping SPS (or any coral for that matter). That being said, your ALK is kind of high to have low nutrients.....hence my question regarding your phosphates.

 

[Kevin D]

Thanks for your response. The tank has been setup since thanksgiving 2017 and fish and coral were added in January this year. You bring up a good point about the alkalinity and I had a slight issue with that a few weeks ago as my API test kit kept showing it around 9 and my local store showed it at 12. Which is why I switched to Salifert but now I’m not sure I trust either so I try to read in the middle. Lol. I stopped dozing my B-ionic until I got the salifert kits and it’s now down to 10.5 and I am still not dosing. Could the effects of that still be lingering on? Phosphates I have also wondered about for the sense that the API kit was always saying 0.25 so I have been using phosguard on a regular basis but I checked it with the Red Sea kit and I want to say it was 0.02 last I checked. I will have to check again because I don’t remember exactly but I do remember is was low with the Red Sea kit. I have dragons breath growing well in my display and my sump along with some regular hair algae in the sump and with the phosguard it has been very low. I did have a bad issue with phosphates when I was cycling due to the dry argonite rock used to setup the tank. I had that pretty much under control before I added fish and for sure since adding the corals. Could all the levels be too low? I still get some minor aglae growth on the glass so I figured there is still some nutrients in there but I don’t think they are high unless my kits are all bad. Lol. I really am struggling with knowing the proper setup of my LEDs. My last tank have power compacts. I’m worried I may have been crying them under the higher level profiles but under the current profile the rank doesn’t seem that bright and when I got home yesterday my elegance wasn’t as open and it has consistently been a champ. Maybe it needs time to adjust to the lower level butnis looked a bit shriveled like when is closes for the night as the lights ramp down. Maybe the lower level fooled it. It was the first day so I will keep and eye on it. The rest looked as they always do, again, just the first day though under the low profile.

 

[ihavecrabs]

I like where @Waters is going with his lone of thought

Another thing to consider is acropora as well as many other types of SPS can go downhill quickly but it takes significant longer periods of stability (without issues) for them to start to look better. Polyps, color, growth included.

It is a good sign they're still encrusting.

Have patience and keep an eye on Alkalinity, nitrate, and phosphate making very slow and methodical changes and I think you'll see them turn around in time.

 

[ihavecrabs]

By the way, you seem just like me with test kits... I hate reading colors and comparing them. I never feel like I ever get it right.

If you have some cash to throw at something might I suggest the Hanna Alk and Low range Phosphorous testers? They are phenomenal.

Final thought.. have you always kept salinity that low for a reef tank? I think most people would fall in the range of 1.024 and 1.026 (not to say that 1.022 is not possible). Food for thought.

 

[Waters]

Thanks for your response. The tank has been setup since thanksgiving 2017 and fish and coral were added in January this year. You bring up a good point about the alkalinity and I had a slight issue with that a few weeks ago as my API test kit kept showing it around 9 and my local store showed it at 12. Which is why I switched to Salifert but now I’m not sure I trust either so I try to read in the middle. Lol. I stopped dozing my B-ionic until I got the salifert kits and it’s now down to 10.5 and I am still not dosing. Could the effects of that still be lingering on? Phosphates I have also wondered about for the sense that the API kit was always saying 0.25 so I have been using phosguard on a regular basis but I checked it with the Red Sea kit and I want to say it was 0.02 last I checked. I will have to check again because I don’t remember exactly but I do remember is was low with the Red Sea kit. I have dragons breath growing well in my display and my sump along with some regular hair algae in the sump and with the phosguard it has been very low. I did have a bad issue with phosphates when I was cycling due to the dry argonite rock used to setup the tank. I had that pretty much under control before I added fish and for sure since adding the corals. Could all the levels be too low? I still get some minor aglae growth on the glass so I figured there is still some nutrients in there but I don’t think they are high unless my kits are all bad. Lol. I really am struggling with knowing the proper setup of my LEDs. My last tank have power compacts. I’m worried I may have been crying them under the higher level profiles but under the current profile the rank doesn’t seem that bright and when I got home yesterday my elegance wasn’t as open and it has consistently been a champ. Maybe it needs time to adjust to the lower level butnis looked a bit shriveled like when is closes for the night as the lights ramp down. Maybe the lower level fooled it. It was the first day so I will keep and eye on it. The rest looked as they always do, again, just the first day though under the low profile.

I would definitely trust the Salifert tests over API....Salifert and Red Sea are all I use anymore. If you have various algaes growing, then it is probably safe to assume you have some nutrients.......unfortunately if the coral isn't consuming these nutrients (which it sounds like they aren't) then the algae will so sometimes that isn't a great judge of levels. I agree with @ihavecrabs on the salinity also....I didn't even catch that. While not a deal breaker, I would raise that up a bit closer to 1.025 and just try to keep everything as stable as you can. Things will start to turn around.

 

[Kevin D]

Ok great. Thank you all for the input, so it sounds like you are all focused more on the parameters than lighting at the moment. Would someone mind giving me some thoughts on which of the three lighting profiles you think is best though? Or does it matter? Are all three ok? The lighting confuses me the most because I really have no idea what levels the LEDs should be set at. Thanks again for all the responses. I will stabilize my alkalinity and salinity and give it some time. Maybe I was expecting them to bounce back too fast.

 

[Waters]

I am not good with giving lighting advice....it took me months to dial in my Radions lol. I would just start at lower intensities and slowly ramp up, watching the coral for any negative reactions.

 

[Kevin D]

Ok thanks. How long would you keep them at a certain level before you change? A few days? A week? A month? I’m always afraid I will leave it at the wrong setting too long and kill something. Lol. I thinking I should see something after two or three days, no?

 

[Waters]

Ok thanks. How long would you keep them at a certain level before you change? A few days? A week? A month? I’m always afraid I will leave it at the wrong setting too long and kill something. Lol. I thinking I should see something after two or three days, no?

You won't kill anything quick by having the lights too low so you will be fine. I would slowly increase your intensities weekly, and just keep watching the coral.

 

[Kevin D]

Will do. Thanks!!!

 

[PatW]

First off, SPS corals like high, variable flow, very stable parameters, generally high light and nutrients on the low side.

First off. I measure alkalinity daily. I keep mine at DKH 8.0 and dose to keep it there. Right now, hand dosing is working. But as the corals grow, I will have to switch to dosers.

Seawater contains quite a bit of calcium, I test weekly and keep mine at 450 or above.

I run magnesium at just over 1200.

I run my spec grav at 1.026. Reefers seem to run at 1.025 to 1.027. I would suggest that you raise yours.

I run my nitrates rather low at a bit over 1 ppm. I use Red Sea Pro and it works down to .25 ppm and probably half that. I dose nitrates to keep them stable. I could just as well run at 5 ppm. Most SPS run about that level.

I run phosphates pretty low. Right now they oscillate between 4 ppb and 20 ppb or .o2 ppm. I test using Hanna ULR. For accurate phosphate testing, it is about the only way to go. From my reading people run phosphates at about .03 ppm. I dose to maintain them.

I had problems before. I think I had swings in phosphate levels. With the Hanna, I am keeping levels stable and just high enough for the corals.

Now experienced reefers can kind of run a tank by feel. I test my parameters and log my dosing levels. Right now my corals are starting to thrive. But I am trying to lay down a baseline.

I will probably increase my levels of nitrates and phosphates and increase my fish load and my clean up crew.

Now acropora corals can be maddening. They respond slowly. To get growth, you need things good for quite some time. So you can flounder around because the feedback is so slow.

I would suggest adding some other less finicky SPS corals. Montiporas, birdsnests, or stylophoras. Generally, if you get these going well, your Acroporas will come along. You can use them as indicators. Plus, it is nice to have something thriving.

Oh, and check on your acroporas. Some are pretty finicky. You want to start with ones that are hardy and fast growing.

 

[Kevin D]

Thanks for the input. I do have a birds nest that is doing well polyps out and I do have some Montiporas rut middle tank level for over a month but they are starting to lighten in color, maybe too much light??? My Acropora is encrusting but haven’t seen his polyps yet and I have had him about two weeks. He started encrusting over the plug within days it seemed, no joke. Is it possible that my lighting has been high enough where my corals don’t need to use feeder tentacles because they are getting enough food from their zooxanthellae??

 

[Kevin D]

Currently with lighting lower buy about 40-50%

 

[Kevin D]

Current update on parameters.

Salinity 1.024
Alkalinity 9.9
Calcium over 500 maybe because of the added salt? I use reef crystals
Mg 1290
Phosphates 0.04
nitrates 0.25

bumped my current back up and still have lights on the lower profile. Now i'll leave it alone and see whats happens. Won't dose until alkalinity hits 8.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Current update on parameters.

Salinity 1.024
Alkalinity 9.9
Calcium over 500 maybe because of the added salt? I use reef crystals
Mg 1290
Phosphates 0.04
nitrates 0.25

bumped my current back up and still have lights on the lower profile. Now i'll leave it alone and see whats happens. Won't dose until alkalinity hits 8.

Hi Kevin! Welcome again to Reef2Reef.

Here’s what I’m seeing. Apologies if it sounds a bit blunt. That is a very, very new tank. I’m actually pretty darned surprised you got an acro to grow at all. Kudos sir. You clearly have a blue thumb.

I’m sure you know , new tanks are as wild as kids with swings and dips.
The magic of bacteria and nutrients is pushing your alk all over the place. Folks desperately try to maintain a stability that honestly isn’t super realistic imo all time nor all that helpful. The tank is kinda going to do what it’s gonna do. We just try to patiently react. I’m preaching to the choir , I know.

On alk. The guys have got you pretty well covered. I’ll only add that , the alk level is purely preference. It just may effect the other things you do. Higher alk and higher light needs slightly higher nutrients , depending on the coral. Lower is opposite , lol , depending on the coral. And it’s not an absolute.
To make it even more fun, most test kits are pretty darned imprecise, not set in stone . So it’s an indicator of what’s going on. There are a bajillion threads on it and them not matching ICP lab tests. But folks have thier preference and ways of doing things. And it makes them feel sciencey.
IMO the best thing about an alk of eight is , you don’t have to dose as much product.

As far as the effect on corals , the biggest sps coral growth I’ve had is with natural seawater and no dosing. Alk of about 7. Missed wc for six weeks. A fish ripped my deep sand bed apart and the skimmer was broken. I fortunately was out of town for those six weeks and my wife had the please of dealing with it. She cleaned the glass.

Some folks like a salt mix that matches the alk and cal close to what the tank is.
Some , because of the small relative volume from a 10% water change doesn’t Really change them much , like to have the extra boost of minerals.
I’ve done both , didn’t really see a difference in anything except on the test kit numbers. (I also stopped testing cal and mag , as I dose them evenly anyway ) and only test alk.
Alk mag and cal are used evenly by organisms as well.

About your lights. Probably the only real thing that may be vexing you.

Most assume if they load a profile it’s fine. But most (none) profiles account for your livestock nor depth af tank. So the Par being delivered to the different coral aren’t specific at all. I also noted , you have a very mixed reef. That’s a lot of corals with very different Par needs.
That’s actually probably the biggest difficulty most have. An acro (most of them ) like 350 par for about ten hours. Deep water ones want less. About 150 or so if not less.
Some zoas will do great in high lighting, some won’t. Rule of thumb is about 100 par for those. A lot of lps will like well below that. In the 50 par range. And some sps even wil l like less then that. Some cyphasteria for example.

So yes, you May want to look into borrowing or buying a par meter.
A lux meter also works , but requires a small conversion to par.

So I generally suggest begin to choose a par range you want to work in. A common one is an average about 100 par on the sand.

With a tank as wonderfully deep as yours , the par closer to the lights will naturally be higher , so you can put more high light friendly corals there.

The only drawback to this would be if you desperately want some clams on th sand.(that’s me!) Then you probably want 150-170 for easy clams and close to 200 for Maximas.
And there is a reason you don’t see a maxima next to a frogspawn coral.its too much light.


Your lights are the basic equivalent of 250 watt metal halides at full steam. At a distance of 12in they’ll give about 700 par I belive. (Memory lapse ) , as they have lenses the “fall off” is not as much as a metal halide or t5 fixture. An old school MH was on a high light clam in the sand tank like yours , in the range of 1500 to 2000 par , becuse by the time it got to the bottom it was only 250 par. If that makes sense. Led has a bit more penetration. The drawback to that is hot spots. A focused beam.

So you can have 350 par in a spot and 500 eight inches away.
A quick picture.

The wide picture is a better spread and coverage obviously. And you can see what would happen if the light is too close.
Something to consider.

As far as the profile you’re using , I don’t know who that is, maybe it’s a coral scientist with a spectrometer , but I’d doubt it. He’d be using more violet if he were. And at least some red. Corals actually need that. And the dips in the profile are for a rest in photosynthesis in the coral , but it’s only one spectrum and probably only a 50 par rest , were i to hazard a guess.

The lights you have, at an even ratio will grow corals just fine. If not better. A look at the data sheet on them will show this.
BUT...
If you like the color in the tank in this profile , use it. It does seem to be working well, (I can’t belive that acro thing still), in thing about led and stability is , folks mess with the knobs way too much. Just cuz there’s a button doesn’t mean push it , especially if we don’t know what it does without a test. Or in this case meter.

So bring it back around , Par level is like alk. Your preference.
Little Less Light , uses less power, no clam on the sand , but you get acans and other cool stuff.
But it is important to know what the par level is.

Hope that helps . Sorry for the ramble , I did have a cup of coffe a bit late.

 

[Kevin D]

Thanks very much for your response. I think I’m on the right track now I just need to be patient. My tank is young but I started it with filtered seawater and since I live in Fort Lauderdale and am a former marine science student ( many years ago, I forgot most of my stuff) I do have a plankton net and dosed about a filling of concentrated plankton two or three times to help mature the tank a bit quicker. It worked great, I have pods thriving in my tank my sump, they are everywhere. Bacteria is going great which is why have low nutrients. Also a huge sump so that I have a big buffer. You will probably cringe but I haven’t don’t a water hange since January. I was thinking of doing one for the hell of it this weekend since is was having issues but not that the alkalinity is coming down and the leak is corrected and the salinity is back up, I may leave it alone. I’m thinking if the parameters are good then I really shouldn’t need to change it. I don’t know, maybe you guys have some thoughts on that. As far as the lights I guy I will just have to play around. The David Saxby profile comes from a guy in Europe that has a business there and is consistently voted as having one of the best tanksnin the world every year. You can google him and see a video of his tank. It will make you cry. Lol. Anyway, he switched his lights to Hydras and apparently worked with the manufacturer to protect this profile. Mine is a bit different as I removed the reds myself. Red light promotes algae and I figured I had enough red in my whites to cover it. Didn’t really feel the need for extra red. We will see. I really appreciate everyone’s feed back and I guess I’m going to have to wait and find my groove again. After ten years out of the hobby, I thought I would just pick back up but things change and you forget stuff. lol. This forum is great though and I will keep you all posted. Thanks again!!!!

 

[PatW]

Thanks for the input. I do have a birds nest that is doing well polyps out and I do have some Montiporas rut middle tank level for over a month but they are starting to lighten in color, maybe too much light??? My Acropora is encrusting but haven’t seen his polyps yet and I have had him about two weeks. He started encrusting over the plug within days it seemed, no joke. Is it possible that my lighting has been high enough where my corals don’t need to use feeder tentacles because they are getting enough food from their zooxanthellae??

I figure that if a coral is growing, that is a good sign. Encrusting montipora tend to grow at the edge of the colony and the growing edge can be much lighter. Seeing that is good.

Acroporas and other branching corals often just start encrusting. I don't know why they do that. I want them to GROW UPWARDS. But growth is growth and it is a good sign.

Seeing happy, healthy extended polyps and vibrant colors is good. But remember most hard corals derive their energy from zooanthellae, so feeding is not such a big thing. In nature, I think that feeding is not so much for energy but for gathering nutrients which they can give to their zooanthellae. Remember, most oceans are nutrient deserts. And the king of corals, the Acropora, thrive under low nutrient conditions. Also, some acropora seem to have more noticeable polyp extension and others appear pretty near smooth. I have some fuzzy acroporas and some smooth ones. Looking at web sites like Jason Fox or Battlecorals, polyp prominence seems to vary widely in the acropora.

With a young tank like yours, you are doing well.