New clown, new tank - Normal behavior or potential disease?

[Octopud]

I recently set up my first SW tank after a little over a year with FW. The aquarium is a waterbox 20AIO with a manual roller mat, a bag of chemipure blue, and a bag of marine pure bio balls. Have a heater with controller and an ATO as well. Running a noopsyche k7 pro with just white light for 8 hours/day at the moment because I haven't purchased any corals yet. Dry rock, live sand. Inhabitants are only the clowns, 8 hermit crabs, copepods

Tank has been established for 8 weeks with the first 6 and a half ish weeks for the cycle. I started the cycle with Microbacter XLM and 2.0ppm dosed ammonia until ammonia and nitrite were both 0 and nitrate was detectable. Fish were added 9 days ago, Friday the 17th. Lights were off for the first couple days after I received them. I didn't QT the fish or inverts. I did a 2 gallon water change today.

Current parameters:
SG: 1.025 milwaukee digital refractometer
Ammonia: 0 API
Nitrite: 0 API
Nitrate: 15ppm Hanna HR
Phosphate: 0.07 ppm
Temp: 78F


Both clowns were purchased from ORA through BRS. They were not sold as a bonded pair. The larger clown nipped at the smaller one a little bit after I acclimated/put them in the tank but we haven't noticed any other overt aggression since then.

The smaller one has 2 fins that look clamped to me(dorsal and pelvic)? Possibly a sunken in belly? I feed a small amount in the AM and a small amount in the PM. Usually a few pellets each for 1 meal and a small amount of chopped/grated mysis + brine or baby brine for the 2nd. I skip 1 meal per week. The larger clown eats voraciously and seeks food aggressively but the smaller one has trouble and does not seek food even when I drop it near them with a pipette. They will take them if food is directly in front of them. They have taken pellets but have spit them out. When I have tried to cast feed using baby brine shrimp or chopped mysis I have seen them grab food that comes directly in front of them. No mysis accepted from the pipette. They have both had white poop since then but I assume it was stress from the travel.

As far as behavior goes, the smaller clown tends to hover in 1 spot. Directly under the power head or directly under the middle arch of the rock work near the sand, prefering the spot beneath the power head 95% of the time. Very rarely do I see them wandering the tank or even actively sticking with the larger one. The larger one does often wander but always returns to the smaller and swims with them. I have also observed the smaller one swimming with bouts of sporadic energy, zipping across the tank and back to their spot under the powerhead, but this is rare (too rare for me to catch on video). They will stop swimming abruptly and just float in the flow for a couple seconds, or bend their tail/head away when the larger clown approaches. I assumed that this was normal behavior.

I'm not sure about the gill beats per minute, I have had a hard time counting them even on the videos I have taken.

Is there something obviously wrong with the smaller of the clowns? I was thinking it could be flukes but I haven't seen any scratching. Do they just need more time to adjust to each other? Bullying or aggression that I'm not seeing?

Thank you so much for any insight.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I recently set up my first SW tank after a little over a year with FW. The aquarium is a waterbox 20AIO with a manual roller mat, a bag of chemipure blue, and a bag of marine pure bio balls. Have a heater with controller and an ATO as well. Running a noopsyche k7 pro with just white light for 8 hours/day at the moment because I haven't purchased any corals yet. Dry rock, live sand. Inhabitants are only the clowns, 8 hermit crabs, copepods

Tank has been established for 8 weeks with the first 6 and a half ish weeks for the cycle. I started the cycle with Microbacter XLM and 2.0ppm dosed ammonia until ammonia and nitrite were both 0 and nitrate was detectable. Fish were added 9 days ago, Friday the 17th. Lights were off for the first couple days after I received them. I didn't QT the fish or inverts. I did a 2 gallon water change today.

Current parameters:
SG: 1.025 milwaukee digital refractometer
Ammonia: 0 API
Nitrite: 0 API
Nitrate: 15ppm Hanna HR
Phosphate: 0.07 ppm
Temp: 78F


Both clowns were purchased from ORA through BRS. They were not sold as a bonded pair. The larger clown nipped at the smaller one a little bit after I acclimated/put them in the tank but we haven't noticed any other overt aggression since then.

The smaller one has 2 fins that look clamped to me(dorsal and pelvic)? Possibly a sunken in belly? I feed a small amount in the AM and a small amount in the PM. Usually a few pellets each for 1 meal and a small amount of chopped/grated mysis + brine or baby brine for the 2nd. I skip 1 meal per week. The larger clown eats voraciously and seeks food aggressively but the smaller one has trouble and does not seek food even when I drop it near them with a pipette. They will take them if food is directly in front of them. They have taken pellets but have spit them out. When I have tried to cast feed using baby brine shrimp or chopped mysis I have seen them grab food that comes directly in front of them. No mysis accepted from the pipette. They have both had white poop since then but I assume it was stress from the travel.

As far as behavior goes, the smaller clown tends to hover in 1 spot. Directly under the power head or directly under the middle arch of the rock work near the sand, prefering the spot beneath the power head 95% of the time. Very rarely do I see them wandering the tank or even actively sticking with the larger one. The larger one does often wander but always returns to the smaller and swims with them. I have also observed the smaller one swimming with bouts of sporadic energy, zipping across the tank and back to their spot under the powerhead, but this is rare (too rare for me to catch on video). They will stop swimming abruptly and just float in the flow for a couple seconds, or bend their tail/head away when the larger clown approaches. I assumed that this was normal behavior.

I'm not sure about the gill beats per minute, I have had a hard time counting them even on the videos I have taken.

Is there something obviously wrong with the smaller of the clowns? I was thinking it could be flukes but I haven't seen any scratching. Do they just need more time to adjust to each other? Bullying or aggression that I'm not seeing?

Thank you so much for any insight.

Tank seems to have high turbulence from power heads as smaller is struggling with current,. Additionally the larger may be aggressor from what is known as clown hierarchy where the female will hog the food, claim an area or entire tank, chase the smaller often a male and even bite at it.
Try reducing flow a little and reduce white intensity. Feed a little more so male can get some or you may have to separate female if its preventing male from eating due to intimidation

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I recently set up my first SW tank after a little over a year with FW. The aquarium is a waterbox 20AIO with a manual roller mat, a bag of chemipure blue, and a bag of marine pure bio balls. Have a heater with controller and an ATO as well. Running a noopsyche k7 pro with just white light for 8 hours/day at the moment because I haven't purchased any corals yet. Dry rock, live sand. Inhabitants are only the clowns, 8 hermit crabs, copepods

Tank has been established for 8 weeks with the first 6 and a half ish weeks for the cycle. I started the cycle with Microbacter XLM and 2.0ppm dosed ammonia until ammonia and nitrite were both 0 and nitrate was detectable. Fish were added 9 days ago, Friday the 17th. Lights were off for the first couple days after I received them. I didn't QT the fish or inverts. I did a 2 gallon water change today.

Current parameters:
SG: 1.025 milwaukee digital refractometer
Ammonia: 0 API
Nitrite: 0 API
Nitrate: 15ppm Hanna HR
Phosphate: 0.07 ppm
Temp: 78F


Both clowns were purchased from ORA through BRS. They were not sold as a bonded pair. The larger clown nipped at the smaller one a little bit after I acclimated/put them in the tank but we haven't noticed any other overt aggression since then.

The smaller one has 2 fins that look clamped to me(dorsal and pelvic)? Possibly a sunken in belly? I feed a small amount in the AM and a small amount in the PM. Usually a few pellets each for 1 meal and a small amount of chopped/grated mysis + brine or baby brine for the 2nd. I skip 1 meal per week. The larger clown eats voraciously and seeks food aggressively but the smaller one has trouble and does not seek food even when I drop it near them with a pipette. They will take them if food is directly in front of them. They have taken pellets but have spit them out. When I have tried to cast feed using baby brine shrimp or chopped mysis I have seen them grab food that comes directly in front of them. No mysis accepted from the pipette. They have both had white poop since then but I assume it was stress from the travel.

As far as behavior goes, the smaller clown tends to hover in 1 spot. Directly under the power head or directly under the middle arch of the rock work near the sand, prefering the spot beneath the power head 95% of the time. Very rarely do I see them wandering the tank or even actively sticking with the larger one. The larger one does often wander but always returns to the smaller and swims with them. I have also observed the smaller one swimming with bouts of sporadic energy, zipping across the tank and back to their spot under the powerhead, but this is rare (too rare for me to catch on video). They will stop swimming abruptly and just float in the flow for a couple seconds, or bend their tail/head away when the larger clown approaches. I assumed that this was normal behavior.

I'm not sure about the gill beats per minute, I have had a hard time counting them even on the videos I have taken.

Is there something obviously wrong with the smaller of the clowns? I was thinking it could be flukes but I haven't seen any scratching. Do they just need more time to adjust to each other? Bullying or aggression that I'm not seeing?

Thank you so much for any insight.

I agree, you should cut the flow or redirect it, but also ensure there is good aeration (I use an air stone).

The smaller clown is swimming "stiff bodied" and a bit lethargic. That is a general sign of a clownfish that isn't doing well. However, I don't see any secondary symptoms that would help pin down the diagnosis - white clownfish are tough in that regard, not contract to see anything on their skin.

Generally tank raised clownfish are disease free, but sometimes they get put in tanks with wild caught fish before you get them and they can pick up diseases that way.

 

[Octopud]

I agree, you should cut the flow or redirect it, but also ensure there is good aeration (I use an air stone).

The smaller clown is swimming "stiff bodied" and a bit lethargic. That is a general sign of a clownfish that isn't doing well. However, I don't see any secondary symptoms that would help pin down the diagnosis - white clownfish are tough in that regard, not contract to see anything on their skin.

Generally tank raised clownfish are disease free, but sometimes they get put in tanks with wild caught fish before you get them and they can pick up diseases that way.

I cut off the powerhead and he has since moved up towards the top of the tank into the flow of the return pump and has continued to hover in place.

I also tried to get another video to monitor his breathing which definitely does appear quickened to me now that I have a closer/easier look at it.



Would you recommend I try to treat for anything, or lower the flow even more? The return pump is not quite on the lowest setting, more like the bottom 25% or I could switch back to the stock return nozzle.

As for aeration, I assumed that the returns being angled upward and the filter baffles causing a waterfall effect would be enough aeration. Would you recommend I still use an air stone or is there another option for aeration? I would prefer not to use an air stone but would be fine with that if it's my only option. Would locating it in aio chambers work for aeration or locate it in the display only?

Thank you again

 

[Octopud]

Tank seems to have high turbulence from power heads as smaller is struggling with current,. Additionally the larger may be aggressor from what is known as clown hierarchy where the female will hog the food, claim an area or entire tank, chase the smaller often a male and even bite at it.
Try reducing flow a little and reduce white intensity. Feed a little more so male can get some or you may have to separate female if its preventing male from eating due to intimidation

I fed a little bit more than usual frozen mysis this morning and he actively did not go for the food. He has also had a white poop sticking out of him for a long while. Assuming this is excess mucus from not eating?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I cut off the powerhead and he has since moved up towards the top of the tank into the flow of the return pump and has continued to hover in place.

I also tried to get another video to monitor his breathing which definitely does appear quickened to me now that I have a closer/easier look at it.



Would you recommend I try to treat for anything, or lower the flow even more? The return pump is not quite on the lowest setting, more like the bottom 25% or I could switch back to the stock return nozzle.

As for aeration, I assumed that the returns being angled upward and the filter baffles causing a waterfall effect would be enough aeration. Would you recommend I still use an air stone or is there another option for aeration? I would prefer not to use an air stone but would be fine with that if it's my only option. Would locating it in aio chambers work for aeration or locate it in the display only?

Thank you again

You should put an air stone in the tank - the clown is breathing too fast. Extra aeration will at least rule out a low oxygen problem.

Rapid breathing is a sign of a variety of problems though; bacterial disease, velvet, internal protozoans, even viral diseases.

 

[Octopud]

You should put an air stone in the tank - the clown is breathing too fast. Extra aeration will at least rule out a low oxygen problem.

Rapid breathing is a sign of a variety of problems though; bacterial disease, velvet, internal protozoans, even viral diseases.

I added an air stone - what would you recommend for next steps?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I added an air stone - what would you recommend for next steps?

That's the problem - there is no clear symptom that points to a direction for treatment. Ruby Reef Rally Pro is safe to use, not the strongest medication out there, but still effective against some bacteria and protozoans.

 

[Octopud]

That's the problem - there is no clear symptom that points to a direction for treatment. Ruby Reef Rally Pro is safe to use, not the strongest medication out there, but still effective against some bacteria and protozoans.

Just an update. Not sure if it's any more obvious by this video what sort of symptoms he is exhibiting. Seems to be struggling harder now - can't confirm if he ate any food whatsoever today. Didn't seem like it.

I purchased some Ruby Reef Rally Pro, not sure if it's going to come here in time though.

I have other medication I could try - methylene blue, fritz maracyn, fritz paracleanse, and ich-x. I have Prazipro, and Copper power coming tomorrow, ruby reef rally on the 29th.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Just an update. Not sure if it's any more obvious by this video what sort of symptoms he is exhibiting. Seems to be struggling harder now - can't confirm if he ate any food whatsoever today. Didn't seem like it.

I purchased some Ruby Reef Rally Pro, not sure if it's going to come here in time though.

I have other medication I could try - methylene blue, fritz maracyn, fritz paracleanse, and ich-x. I have Prazipro, and Copper power coming tomorrow, ruby reef rally on the 29th.

The clown looks thin to me, it may have had something going on for a bit of time.
Without a clear diagnosis I’m hesitant to suggest any treatment.