New delivery - black leopard wrasse problems

[danieyella]

Received a black leopard wrasse yesterday. Right out of the box saw she was struggling.

UPS is historically rough with packages so my first thought was stunned. Potentially cold, but FL. Maybe ammonia?

Salinity was 1.023, water was cool so I gave a little time to temp acclimate. Maybe 20 minutes. No improvement.

Coloration normal, eyes clear, breathing very rapidly - kind of labored. Perks up when I pipette feed her, extremely responsive. Very alert. But can't seem to control body to swim or anything whatsoever.

Vendor said this was the most active one when they bagged but they're extending my 2wk guarantee and asked me to keep in touch but they're confused as well.

She's by herself with a small dish of sand to bury herself, did not do so last night or at all today.

Been with me almost 36 hours now in the exact same condition.

Video won't load

Ideas? Not sure what to do here....

@fishguy242 @Jay Hemdal #fishmedic

 

[fishguy242]

..
@SaltyT @Eagle_Steve

 

[vetteguy53081]

Received a black leopard wrasse yesterday. Right out of the box saw she was struggling.

UPS is historically rough with packages so my first thought was stunned. Potentially cold, but FL. Maybe ammonia?

Salinity was 1.023, water was cool so I gave a little time to temp acclimate. Maybe 20 minutes. No improvement.

Coloration normal, eyes clear, breathing very rapidly - kind of labored. Perks up when I pipette feed her, extremely responsive. Very alert. But can't seem to control body to swim or anything whatsoever.

Vendor said this was the most active one when they bagged but they're extending my 2wk guarantee and asked me to keep in touch but they're confused as well.

She's by herself with a small dish of sand to bury herself, did not do so last night or at all today.

Been with me almost 36 hours now in the exact same condition.

Video won't load

Ideas? Not sure what to do here....

@fishguy242 @Jay Hemdal #fishmedic

Glad to hear its feeding. With possible bladder issue, it is noy unusual with or during shipment for a given fish to suck air which in turn reaches bladder. It should slowly release and fish return to normal

 

[danieyella]

Glad to hear its feeding. With possible bladder issue, it is noy unusual with or during shipment for a given fish to suck air which in turn reaches bladder. It should slowly release and fish return to normal

Nothing special I should do if that's the case other than keep directly feeding?

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Video from last night

 

[danieyella]

Video from last night

Thank you, this site hates me I swear

 

[vetteguy53081]

Nothing special I should do if that's the case other than keep directly feeding?

yes-

 

[Lavey29]

I concur with Vetteguy. I have had fish display bladder problems after shipping but the effect cleared up in like 48 hours.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you, this site hates me I swear

Are you sure the fish is swallowing food, and not just sucking food in as it breaths? It looks to be in a bad way - not swimming and breathing really hard.

Given the timing, and the fish never being "right" since arrival, I would say that transport stress is the issue here. I do not see evidence of typical swim bladder disease; the fish isn't positively buoyant.

If the fish is eating, then the following is a distinct possibility:


Unknown Neurological Wrasse disease (UNWD)

There is a disease that afflicts newly acquired wrasses, usually Cirrhilabrus fairy wrasses or flasher wrasses, Pseudocheilinus, but occasionally other species as well. The gross visual symptoms are always the same; the fish shows a rapid onset of neurological symptoms where it either cannot swim well, swims tail down or swims with a bent spine. The other key symptom is that despite this, these wrasses will still attempt to feed. Most aquarists attribute the symptoms to some sort of an injury, such as running into the side of the tank. The trouble with that diagnosis is that these fish do not show external damage (bumped snouts, etc.) that would be expected from such an injury. Other hypothesis include barotrauma from deep water collection, or the use of cyanide to collect these fish. The trouble with these possible causes is that symptoms in other types of fish are known, and are different; emaciation in cyanide collection and swim bladder issues in cases of barotrauma. Mycobacterium has also been implicated, but that issue is more often present in long term captive fish, not newly acquired ones as in these instances.

Eventually, the affected fish becomes weaker and either needs to be euthanized, or dies spontaneously. To date, there is no known cure and the mortality rate seems to be 100%. All that can be said is that it is an unknown peripheral neurological disease. It does not seem to be highly contagious from wrasse to wrasse. The causative agent is possibly viral, but could also be nerve damage from nematodes or from microsporidians. Since the fish still tries to feed, it is unlikely the brain is affected, more likely only the spinal column. or muscle nerves.


Jay

 

[danieyella]

Are you sure the fish is swallowing food, and not just sucking food in as it breaths? It looks to be in a bad way - not swimming and breathing really hard.

Given the timing, and the fish never being "right" since arrival, I would say that transport stress is the issue here. I do not see evidence of typical swim bladder disease; the fish isn't positively buoyant.

If the fish is eating, then the following is a distinct possibility:


Unknown Neurological Wrasse disease (UNWD)

There is a disease that afflicts newly acquired wrasses, usually Cirrhilabrus fairy wrasses or flasher wrasses, Pseudocheilinus, but occasionally other species as well. The gross visual symptoms are always the same; the fish shows a rapid onset of neurological symptoms where it either cannot swim well, swims tail down or swims with a bent spine. The other key symptom is that despite this, these wrasses will still attempt to feed. Most aquarists attribute the symptoms to some sort of an injury, such as running into the side of the tank. The trouble with that diagnosis is that these fish do not show external damage (bumped snouts, etc.) that would be expected from such an injury. Other hypothesis include barotrauma from deep water collection, or the use of cyanide to collect these fish. The trouble with these possible causes is that symptoms in other types of fish are known, and are different; emaciation in cyanide collection and swim bladder issues in cases of barotrauma. Mycobacterium has also been implicated, but that issue is more often present in long term captive fish, not newly acquired ones as in these instances.

Eventually, the affected fish becomes weaker and either needs to be euthanized, or dies spontaneously. To date, there is no known cure and the mortality rate seems to be 100%. All that can be said is that it is an unknown peripheral neurological disease. It does not seem to be highly contagious from wrasse to wrasse. The causative agent is possibly viral, but could also be nerve damage from nematodes or from microsporidians. Since the fish still tries to feed, it is unlikely the brain is affected, more likely only the spinal column. or muscle nerves.


Jay

After rewatching the video from night one, compared to last night - breathing actually did calm down quite a bit. Still felt rapid to me compared to normal though. Seems to be actually swallowing food as it tries to shift it's body to follow the pipette, I'm not injecting straight into it's mouth.

Breathing has calmed significantly more this morning, but almost bordering lethargy. So not sure this is an improvement. Feeding response was less today.

 

[Crabby48]

Thank you, this site hates me I swear

And all iPhone users. Can’t see video.
@SaltyT whats your thoughts
In an acclimation box I find some fish won’t settle

 

[danieyella]

And all iPhone users. Can’t see video.
@SaltyT whats your thoughts
In an acclimation box I find some fish won’t settle

He was moved into a 10g qt not in the acc box any longer

 

[danieyella]

Null, I believe it passed.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Null, I believe it passed.

Well that sucks.

I will say this, leopards are very finicky with shipping and do not ship well.

I also believe you can try to do a FW dip and use a pipette to blow some water through the gills to see if flukes could have been an issue. Not all flukes will detach, but you may be able to see some, if there are some.

The last 3 I have received have all had flukes. I had to do prazi before hybrid ttm due to this. Luckily prazi worked for them.

 

[danieyella]

Well that sucks.

I will say this, leopards are very finicky with shipping and do not ship well.

I also believe you can try to do a FW dip and use a pipette to blow some water through the gills to see if flukes could have been an issue. Not all flukes will detach, but you may be able to see some, if there are some.

The last 3 I have received have all had flukes. I had to do prazi before hybrid ttm due to this. Luckily prazi worked for them.

I'll check it out. I saw a small spasm of activity from the corner of my eye, went over to the tank and looked like I saw the tail end of what I would call a seizure in any land creature. No signs of breathing now.

 

[Crabby48]

Ok Steve got the video to me. It looked worse then expected. I’m sorry if she passed

 

[danieyella]

Definitely passed, did a freshwater dip and used the pipette to blow water through the gills This is what came off.

Really wishing I had a microscope.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Definitely passed, did a freshwater dip and used the pipette to blow water through the gills This is what came off.

Really wishing I had a microscope.

@Jay Hemdal thoughts? I have never seen anything like it, as most the time flukes look like little sesame seeds.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Aww sorry D. That green thing doesn't look like anything angry to me.

 

[danieyella]

Aww sorry D. That green thing doesn't look like anything angry to me.

It reminds me of the stupid brown hitchhikers that get stuck to everything outside. But smaller and softer and green.