New Metal Halide Reflector came in dented. What should I do?

[Madison Reef]

So..... I just bought "(2) brand new lumenbright mini reflectors" from a r2r user, but it came in dented (3 spots, 4 total dents, the pictures are below showing 3 dents, there is one more that is not in pic).

There was no indication on the sale post that it had dents, he listed them as new.
I wanted to return the products as it was listed as new but it came in dented. He refused to pay for return shipping. Shipping alone costed me 50 to receive and another 50 to return them which eqauls to the original price of the reflectors.
There was no indication about dents on his selling post and I would have not purchased this if he mentioned.
Below is our conversation.

Me: "It came in with dents.... 3 spots."

Seller: "Tough to say if it was ship or if I received them like that directly from coralvue when they shipped to me. I didnt take any top pics. I ended up with pendants so I never used them and they sat in storage on top of a box. Sorry about that. Not sure if I can file a damaged ship claim on it as I've never had to on the very few things I've shipped. Personally - this is why I don't like ship and prefer local pickup. Would you like to return them?"

Me: "I have never used metal halide, and I am not sure how dents will have an affect. So, I am leaning towards returning them.
If I were to return them, would you be willing to pay for the return shipping?
There was no indication about dents on your initial post and I would have not purchased this if you mentioned."

Seller: "Small dents are negligible on any halide reflector. Especially lumenbrights, they put out a ton of light. You can make a thread and ask others. Unfortunately, return ship will be on you. Once received, I'll refund your money. Please dont open the accessory boxes and return in same condition as you received. Return address is:"

I have never used metal halide, and I am wondering if this would create hot spots.
The seller claims that "small dents are negligible on any halide reflector" which goes against my understanding.
Would it be safe to use it?

How should I proceed with this issue?
Please advise me.
Thanks!

 

[Bpb]

Functionally those blemishes will be negligible. Lumenbrite reflectors are going to create hot spots no matter what. They’re like the black boxes of halide reflectors. Almost zero lateral spread at all. I would personally be annoyed but not enough to return them. Just hang them super high

 

[xtian]

I’m not a store. Pic I posted clearly shows a new “open box” item. I could’ve posted a top side pic but you could’ve asked for one as well. I didn’t expect to ship anything so I just took some quick shots of stuff I wanted to clear out of storage and buyer could inspect on pickup ofc. For this exact reason, I don’t like to ship. You have a very low message count(reason I added signature required on delivery) and I still decided to give you a shot. Lessons learned. I gave you the return address. Refund waiting for you once the stuff is sent back. Btw, ship was over 50 which I stated I’d eat the overage plus fees.

 

[mfinn]

So..... I just bought "(2) brand new lumenbright mini reflectors" from a r2r user, but it came in dented (3 spots, 4 total dents, the pictures are below showing 3 dents, there is one more that is not in pic).

There was no indication on the sale post that it had dents, he listed them as new.
I wanted to return the products as it was listed as new but it came in dented. He refused to pay for return shipping. Shipping alone costed me 50 to receive and another 50 to return them which eqauls to the original price of the reflectors.
There was no indication about dents on his selling post and I would have not purchased this if he mentioned.
Below is our conversation.

Me: "It came in with dents.... 3 spots."

Seller: "Tough to say if it was ship or if I received them like that directly from coralvue when they shipped to me. I didnt take any top pics. I ended up with pendants so I never used them and they sat in storage on top of a box. Sorry about that. Not sure if I can file a damaged ship claim on it as I've never had to on the very few things I've shipped. Personally - this is why I don't like ship and prefer local pickup. Would you like to return them?"

Me: "I have never used metal halide, and I am not sure how dents will have an affect. So, I am leaning towards returning them.
If I were to return them, would you be willing to pay for the return shipping?
There was no indication about dents on your initial post and I would have not purchased this if you mentioned."

Seller: "Small dents are negligible on any halide reflector. Especially lumenbrights, they put out a ton of light. You can make a thread and ask others. Unfortunately, return ship will be on you. Once received, I'll refund your money. Please dont open the accessory boxes and return in same condition as you received. Return address is:"

I have never used metal halide, and I am wondering if this would create hot spots.
The seller claims that "small dents are negligible on any halide reflector" which goes against my understanding.
Would it be safe to use it?

How should I proceed with this issue?
Please advise me.
Thanks!

The seller said there were dents. He was up front.
The dents are really nothing to be worried about.
You should keep them and use them as planned.

If you decide to return them, then shipping is on you.

 

[Madison Reef]

Functionally those blemishes will be negligible.... I would personally be annoyed but not enough to return them. Just hang them super high

What a relief! Thank you for your reply. Yeah I am disappointed about the dents but I decided to keep them since they do not have an effect on performance.

The seller said there were dents. He was up front.
The dents are really nothing to be worried about.
You should keep them and use them as planned.

If you decide to return them, then shipping is on you.

Thank you for confirming that dents are okay.
The seller did not mention anything about dents in selling post and yes I did not ask more about condition or pictures because it was listed as new. It sounded like he did not inspect the reflector prior to shipping. Those msgs are after I received the package and reported back to the seller about dents. I am fine with return shipping being on me, but I decided to keep them as you suggested. Thank you for your suggestion!

I’m not a store. Pic I posted clearly shows a new “open box” item. I could’ve posted a top side pic but you could’ve asked for one as well. I didn’t expect to ship anything so I just took some quick shots of stuff I wanted to clear out of storage and buyer could inspect on pickup ofc. For this exact reason, I don’t like to ship. You have a very low message count(reason I added signature required on delivery) and I still decided to give you a shot. Lessons learned. I gave you the return address. Refund waiting for you once the stuff is sent back. Btw, ship was over 50 which I stated I’d eat the overage plus fees.

Hi xtian, I apology if I made you to feel that way. I was not trying to intimate or attack you. I was not calling your name out. I did not include your name for that reason.

As you suggested, I was simply asking people on r2r if dents have any effects on performance (which was my understanding), and if so, I should return them considering how much shipping costed and will cost to return. The reason why I included the shipping cost is to have others to consider shipping cost vs the actual cost of reflectors, not to make you look bad.

After reading those two comments, I feel much relieved about dents and decided to keep them which solves the problem.
Perhaps the misunderstanding arises from me thinking dents are not okay (as I mentioned earlier, I am new to metal halides) and new meant without any flaws.

I hope my clarification helps.

 

[mfinn]

What a relief! Thank you for your reply. Yeah I am disappointed about the dents but I decided to keep them since they do not have an effect on performance.

Thank you for confirming that dents are okay.
The seller did not mention anything about dents in selling post and yes I did not ask more about condition or pictures because it was listed as new. It sounded like he did not inspect the reflector prior to shipping. Those msgs are after I received the package and reported back to the seller about dents. I am fine with return shipping being on me, but I decided to keep them as you suggested. Thank you for your suggestion!

For some reason I thought I read that the seller did say something about the dents. I apologize for my curt answer.
I do think on a return it's always on the buyer. ( just had a episode like that myself)
I'm a little jealous that you are going metal halide. In my house if I went back the mh lighting, I would also have to run chillers on both my tanks. Between the mh and chillers, I could not afford to keep 2 tanks on a retiree's budget.
I loved the color of the 20k 250 watt being overdriven on a HQI ballast.

 

[Breadman03]

You'll never know they're there. FWIW, 3 new 250 watt Hamilton 14k bulbs and a pair of XHO blues are giving me like 200-300 PAR on the rock under the lights in my 24" tall 270 (72x36x24). The bottom at the back gets like 60 and the front gets about 150. The XHO's are at the front about 24" above the water line and the bottom of my reflectors are about 28-30" AWL. I used the Photone app on my iPhone. I haven't verified it's accuracy, but it seems to be close enough for a $5 investment based on online reviews. I think there was a thread on here somewhere.

 

[anthonygf]

The dents can be hammered out. Get an auto body dent hammer and place the dent on a piece of wood and hammer gently. That should flatten the dents out somewhat.

 

[Bpb]

You'll never know they're there. FWIW, 3 new 250 watt Hamilton 14k bulbs and a pair of XHO blues are giving me like 200-300 PAR on the rock under the lights in my 24" tall 270 (72x36x24). The bottom at the back gets like 60 and the front gets about 150. The XHO's are at the front about 24" above the water line and the bottom of my reflectors are about 28-30" AWL. I used the Photone app on my iPhone. I haven't verified it's accuracy, but it seems to be close enough for a $5 investment based on online reviews. I think there was a thread on here somewhere.

When I ran Hamilton 14,000k bulbs in lumenbright reflectors, I was getting about 600-800 par about 12” under the water with the pendants 12” over the water. On the sandbed at 24” deep it maxed out at 400 par. Measured with an apogee qm 510

 

[Madison Reef]

For some reason I thought I read that the seller did say something about the dents. I apologize for my curt answer.
I do think on a return it's always on the buyer. ( just had a episode like that myself)
I'm a little jealous that you are going metal halide. In my house if I went back the mh lighting, I would also have to run chillers on both my tanks. Between the mh and chillers, I could not afford to keep 2 tanks on a retiree's budget.
I loved the color of the 20k 250 watt being overdriven on a HQI ballast.

You helped me to solve my problem I'm thankful for your input. No need to apologize!
Currently I am running LEDs (2 kessils 360we on nuvo 40) and I cannot wait to see them again in 2022.

I will be installing the new tank in a unfinished basement, and I am also worried about the heat created by metal halides. Probably I should make another thread asking about how others are doing with heat management in midwest.

When you say "20k 250 watt being overdriven on a HQI ballast", do you mean Radium bulb with M80?

You'll never know they're there. FWIW, 3 new 250 watt Hamilton 14k bulbs and a pair of XHO blues are giving me like 200-300 PAR on the rock under the lights in my 24" tall 270 (72x36x24). The bottom at the back gets like 60 and the front gets about 150. The XHO's are at the front about 24" above the water line and the bottom of my reflectors are about 28-30" AWL. I used the Photone app on my iPhone. I haven't verified it's accuracy, but it seems to be close enough for a $5 investment based on online reviews. I think there was a thread on here somewhere.

Thank you for your info. The new tank will have mostly acros, and I am glad to hear that it puts out a lot of PAR.
I will check out he photone app.

The dents can be hammered out. Get an auto body dent hammer and place the dent on a piece of wood and hammer gently. That should flatten the dents out somewhat.

Thank you for your thought, but I am bit worried that I can do that without damaging the reflector.

When I ran Hamilton 14,000k bulbs in lumenbright reflectors, I was getting about 600-800 par about 12” under the water with the pendants 12” over the water. On the sandbed at 24” deep it maxed out at 400 par. Measured with an apogee qm 510

Wow 600-800 par! That is crazy. Was it 250w or 400w? Would you mind what kind of ballast you used?
Also may I ask how you hanged those reflectors?

 

[Breadman03]

When I ran Hamilton 14,000k bulbs in lumenbright reflectors, I was getting about 600-800 par about 12” under the water with the pendants 12” over the water. On the sandbed at 24” deep it maxed out at 400 par. Measured with an apogee qm 510

I’m sure I’m a little dim. I really need to take my lights apart to clean the lenses and reflectors, but you know how life is.

 

[Bpb]

You helped me to solve my problem I'm thankful for your input. No need to apologize!
Currently I am running LEDs (2 kessils 360we on nuvo 40) and I cannot wait to see them again in 2022.

I will be installing the new tank in a unfinished basement, and I am also worried about the heat created by metal halides. Probably I should make another thread asking about how others are doing with heat management in midwest.

When you say "20k 250 watt being overdriven on a HQI ballast", do you mean Radium bulb with M80?


Thank you for your info. The new tank will have mostly acros, and I am glad to hear that it puts out a lot of PAR.
I will check out he photone app.


Thank you for your thought, but I am bit worried that I can do that without damaging the reflector.


Wow 600-800 par! That is crazy. Was it 250w or 400w? Would you mind what kind of ballast you used?
Also may I ask how you hanged those reflectors?

250 watt bulbs on m58 magnetic ballasts. I had a tall canopy I extended further by just screwing some additional wood support onto and the pendants screwed directly into the cross beam I added. I eventually rotated the pendants so the bulb sockets were rear facing. In this image they were sideways. Making them rear facing made the spread a hair more even.

 

[Madison Reef]

250 watt bulbs on m58 magnetic ballasts. I had a tall canopy I extended further by just screwing some additional wood support onto and the pendants screwed directly into the cross beam I added. I eventually rotated the pendants so the bulb sockets were rear facing. In this image they were sideways. Making them rear facing made the spread a hair more even.

Thank you for the update.
What a beautiful tank!

 

[xtian]

I’m in TX. I use a fan to blow the heat away. 77-78.5 on temp with home set at 75.

 

[mfinn]

I will be installing the new tank in a unfinished basement, and I am also worried about the heat created by metal halides. Probably I should make another thread asking about how others are doing with heat management in midwest.

When you say "20k 250 watt being overdriven on a HQI ballast", do you mean Radium bulb with M80?

I used a PFO HQI ballast with the Radium 20k bulb.
( I think I still have that old ballast in a closet somewhere.)
I used Icecap ballasts on my other tank.
I was able to use a couple clip-on fans for heat management on my small tank where only a single mh bulb was being used. But the temp was always 79-80 degrees.
My big tank with 3 mh bulbs and 4 VHO tubes had to have a chiller. Just no way to keep the tank temp down. I tried it for about a year, but it was a constant battle with 8-10 frozen gallon jugs of water that had to be rotated all day.