New snails dying, where did I go wrong?

[hannernanner]

Merry Christmas R2R! Hoping you can help me sort out why the snails I just ordered in from Reefcleaners aren't making it. I ordered nassarius, trochus, Cerith, nerite and bumble bee snails. I only ordered 5 or 10 of each, a fraction of what would be recommended for my 130 gal system. Because I don't have fish yet, and I've been cycling with lights off, I knew they wouldn't have much to eat the first few weeks. The snails were overnighted and I received them Tuesday afternoon. I met the delivery guy at the door and they were float acclimating within ten minutes. The instructions in the box (per reef cleaners) was NOT to drip acclimate them. Just to float them for 15 minutes and put them in the tank. So I did that. My tank has been cycled, and water parameters have tested normal and consistent for two weeks prior to these introductions. Since it's a new tank, I added a few small pieces of frozen shrimp and a sheet of nori for the snails.

Upon adding them to the tank, most everything seemed to be moving and alive. Over the past few days, the snails have started to die off and I have no idea why. The Trochus were moving at first, but now three of them haven't moved in more than 48 hours. The bumble bee snails have been hanging around them/on their shells and I suspect it's because the Trochus are dead. A couple of the nassarius climbed to the top of the tank yesterday, fell off in the night and I found them upside down and dead this morning. Weird, because I'd seen them right themselves the day before. The nerites seem to be faring the best, but a handful of those have been in the same spot for going on three days...what gives?

Water is RODI, TDS 0. Real Reef rock, CaribSea sand. Nothing else has been in the tank since it's brand new. At this point it looks like I'm just going to slowly lose them all, and I'm bummed, but even more concerned about what goes in my tank next! I'd hate to lose a fish if there's something wrong that I just don't know about. Any insights? TIA!

 

[vetteguy53081]

A couple of things that will cause this:
- Acclimation. Inverts mainly snails need a long acclimation period. I upon purchase float bag for yemperature compensation then empty bag and snails into a clean bucket.
Then I add a cup of water from tank to the pail every 15 mins ten times ( 2.5 hours and scoop into cup and release into display tank on rock or bottom not allowing the powerheads to blow them around causing them to land upside down.

- High nitrates and/or ammonia

 

[hannernanner]

A couple of things that will cause this:
- Acclimation. Inverts mainly snails need a long acclimation period. I upon purchase float bag for yemperature compensation then empty bag and snails into a clean bucket.
Then I add a cup of water from tank to the pail every 15 mins ten times ( 2.5 hours and scoop into cup and release into display tank on rock or bottom not allowing the powerheads to blow them around causing them to land upside down.

- High nitrates and/or ammonia

Ammonia tested 0 before and 24 hrs after I added them, Nitrates were between 3 and 5 ppm before and after as well. From the reading I'd done, I thought for sure drip acclimating was the way to go too, I'm baffled as to why the directions would say, and I quote, "Please do not drip acclimate your animals". Reefcleaners seems to have been in the business a long time, and I've read good things about them on this forum and others. Here's a link to the acclimation page on their website https://www.reefcleaners.org/acclimation

 

[vetteguy53081]

Ammonia tested 0 before and 24 hrs after I added them, Nitrates were between 3 and 5 ppm before and after as well. From the reading I'd done, I thought for sure drip acclimating was the way to go too, I'm baffled as to why the directions would say, and I quote, "Please do not drip acclimate your animals". Reefcleaners seems to have been in the business a long time, and I've read good things about them on this forum and others. Here's a link to the acclimation page on their website https://www.reefcleaners.org/acclimation

Thats wierd. While drip can work, I prefer the bucket method mentioned as it equalizes the bag water and tank water for their new water conditions.

 

[HockeyRooster]

Surprised to hear the seller recommended no acclimation. As vette said, I also understood that inverts need long to acclimatize. Longer acclimation period would be my suggestion. Good luck and Merry Christmas

 

[ZoWhat]

Acclimation

Not your father's toss-dem-in-da-tank.... kurplunk.... snails

 

[vetteguy53081]

Acclimation

Not your father's toss-dem-in-da-tank.... kurplunk.... snails

 

[hannernanner]

Acclimation

Not your father's toss-dem-in-da-tank.... kurplunk.... snails

Yeah.. guess I should’ve gone with my gut on this one..just crazy that advice came from someone with so much experience and so many good reviews!

 

[Ippyroy]

I've had horrible luck with them. Everything arrived DOA once, and most died within a week of the other order. I will never use them again. I don't understand the great reviews. I'll happily spend more or get them even cheaper on EBay.

 

[Lizbeli]

I have always temp acclimated and plopped snails into the tank. The only thing I drip are shrimp. Doubt thats the issue unless your parameters are severely off. Theres more than one way to skin a cat. Lol

 

[hannernanner]

I've had horrible luck with them. Everything arrived DOA once, and most died within a week of the other order. I will never use them again. I don't understand the great reviews. I'll happily spend more or get them even cheaper on EBay.

Good to know!

I have always temp acclimated and plopped snails into the tank. The only thing I drip are shrimp. Doubt thats the issue unless your parameters are severely off. Theres more than one way to skin a cat. Lol

I just don’t know what else it could possibly be! Any ideas? My parameters have been good, and haven’t changed a lot in weeks.

 

[HockeyRooster]

Yeah.. guess I should’ve gone with my gut on this one..just crazy that advice came from someone with so much experience and so many good reviews!

I agree with your decision to do what the seller told you even if it was against your gut. If thy died and you didn’t follow their instructions they wouldn’t honour the warranty. Rock and a hard place imho. Best of luck with this.

 

[Lizbeli]

Good to know!

I just don’t know what else it could possibly be! Any ideas? My parameters have been good, and haven’t changed a lot in weeks.

Was the package cold when you got it? Any chance they needed longer floating for temp? I received freshwater shrimp about a month ago that were 20deg colder than normal, even with a heat pack.

Still- it would be easy to say acclimation did it, but I have had dozens of cuc shipments where I floated only. Sure I get a few dead but that’s expected.

It could also just be the vendor. I would suggest trying to find a local fish store and getting a handful there. Try again and see what you get.

Have you tested your RO water for chloramines?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Changing temperatures during shipping may be a factor ( warm to cold to warm)

 

[hannernanner]

Was the package cold when you got it? Any chance they needed longer floating for temp? I received freshwater shrimp about a month ago that were 20deg colder than normal, even with a heat pack.

Still- it would be easy to say acclimation did it, but I have had dozens of cuc shipments where I floated only. Sure I get a few dead but that’s expected.

It could also just be the vendor. I would suggest trying to find a local fish store and getting a handful there. Try again and see what you get.

Have you tested your RO water for chloramines?

My water comes from a well, so chloramines are unlikely, at least from what I’ve read. The heater pack in the box was still warm when it arrived, so I don’t think they got too cold, but it’s possible.

 

[Lizbeli]

My water comes from a well, so chloramines are unlikely, at least from what I’ve read. The heater pack in the box was still warm when it arrived, so I don’t think they got too cold, but it’s possible.

I see. I had a tank years ago that ran off well water. The concern I had was copper and heavy metals. But that’s something that should show up in your TDS results if I am not mistaken.

Like I said earlier, I would try getting snails from somewhere local and seeing where that gets you. Nothing from what you wrote screams out to me.

 

[Garf]

Can you test magnesium in your salt mix? What’s the salinity and how are you testing it?

From the instructions;

Snails may go dormant for up to 3 days, Ceriths are usually the slowest to come around. Chitons and limpets are also slow to get moving. If they show signs of stress let us know, but do not judge whether they are alive based on initial movement.

You may find this to be different than the acclimation procedure you are used to carrying out. The reason we ask our customers to use this procedure is during the shipping process, ammonia levels in the shipping bags build, while the pH level goes down. As the ph goes down the toxicity of ammonia also goes down. However, when your tank water with normal pH is introduced to the shipping bags or they are exposed to fresh air the pH rises, so does the toxicity of the ammonia, and you will be poisoning the livestock. Please don't do this and certainly never let livestock sit out in buckets exposed to fresh air for a long period of time. It is even worse if you mix species from different bags into the same bucket because ammonia from some bags can then pollute all the species. Please don't acclimate them in this way, we do not wish to accept the additional risk involved and the live guarantee will not apply to the order if you choose to take the extra risk.

 

[hannernanner]

I see. I had a tank years ago that ran off well water. The concern I had was copper and heavy metals. But that’s something that should show up in your TDS results if I am not mistaken.

Like I said earlier, I would try getting snails from somewhere local and seeing where that gets you. Nothing from what you wrote screams out to me.

That’s a good point, maybe I should test for copper just to be sure, before I add any more inverts.

 

[hannernanner]

Can you test magnesium in your salt mix? What’s the salinity and how are you testing it?

From the instructions;

Snails may go dormant for up to 3 days, Ceriths are usually the slowest to come around. Chitons and limpets are also slow to get moving. If they show signs of stress let us know, but do not judge whether they are alive based on initial movement.

You may find this to be different than the acclimation procedure you are used to carrying out. The reason we ask our customers to use this procedure is during the shipping process, ammonia levels in the shipping bags build, while the pH level goes down. As the ph goes down the toxicity of ammonia also goes down. However, when your tank water with normal pH is introduced to the shipping bags or they are exposed to fresh air the pH rises, so does the toxicity of the ammonia, and you will be poisoning the livestock. Please don't do this and certainly never let livestock sit out in buckets exposed to fresh air for a long period of time. It is even worse if you mix species from different bags into the same bucket because ammonia from some bags can then pollute all the species. Please don't acclimate them in this way, we do not wish to accept the additional risk involved and the live guarantee will not apply to the order if you choose to take the extra risk.

Yeah, that’s why I waited until today to post about it. But I’m pretty sure. The nassarius snails that fell haven’t moved, their foots are all rubbery and hard now. And the bumble bee snails actively eating the trochus is a bit of a giveaway it seems... I’m not on a warpath or anything, I followed the directions etc. I’m just hoping to learn something and protect any future investments!

 

[hannernanner]

Can you test magnesium in your salt mix? What’s the salinity and how are you testing it?

From the instructions;

Snails may go dormant for up to 3 days, Ceriths are usually the slowest to come around. Chitons and limpets are also slow to get moving. If they show signs of stress let us know, but do not judge whether they are alive based on initial movement.

You may find this to be different than the acclimation procedure you are used to carrying out. The reason we ask our customers to use this procedure is during the shipping process, ammonia levels in the shipping bags build, while the pH level goes down. As the ph goes down the toxicity of ammonia also goes down. However, when your tank water with normal pH is introduced to the shipping bags or they are exposed to fresh air the pH rises, so does the toxicity of the ammonia, and you will be poisoning the livestock. Please don't do this and certainly never let livestock sit out in buckets exposed to fresh air for a long period of time. It is even worse if you mix species from different bags into the same bucket because ammonia from some bags can then pollute all the species. Please don't acclimate them in this way, we do not wish to accept the additional risk involved and the live guarantee will not apply to the order if you choose to take the extra risk.

Sorry I neglected your first question. Salinity is 35ppm, measured with a refractometer that I recalibrated today before I tested. I tested magnesium too, it’s ~1300. I use Tropic Marin reef pro salt. Did the first water change 3 days before adding the snails.