New Taxes / Fees on orders.....

[SuperHaze57]

@Ryanbrs'

Unless the state of Washington can afford to send a team to your location you will not be audited. Oregon has an agreement with Washington to allow Oregon purchasers to buy tax free from Washington businesses by just presenting an Oregon drivers license. So I do not see them having a legal leg to stand on if challenged in court. Also you cannot enforce state laws over state lines period that is established federal law. As a Washington business owner and seller I know the number of employees in Washington States Tax offices is rather low due to their poor management in multiple other areas of the state budget. Just try to get them to answer the phone or Emails in a timely manner. The state service offices are run on a skeleton crews that are not to interested in working for a living.

We already have the highest gasoline taxes in the country and most of us on the state line vote with our money and shop in Idaho or Oregon for fuel and don't give Olympia a dime. How do you think they will be able to enforce that across state lines without agreement from the border states? The dirty little secret is they do not have the legal athority to collect taxes across state lines period. They also do not have enough tax enforcement officers to cover our own state let alone the state of California. This is really an Olympia pipe dream and you should tell them nuts since your customer list is protected and they would have to get a court order in California to allow them access as well as enforcement across state lines. The case you had with MN illustrates the wasted effort the state made to "collect" imagined taxes from you and they lost money in the process. You should have called the local police and had them escorted from your business location. They simply have no legal standing to be in California trying collect taxes for MN and a judge in California would have told them so. Unless you have a physical location or make deliveries into the state with your own trucks you owe MN or WA nothing period. I sell across state lines every day of the week and I follow each states requirements. I have passed every audit with flying colors. I keep careful records and only allow access by each state to that infomation that concerns that state only.

If you cave into Washington they will take your time and money believe me! Our state government is an extreme example of the principals of anti business interest running amok. It has already cost Washinton the manufacturing plants for several Boeing aircraft as well as the coporate headquarters now located in Chicago. We have a political group here that ignores the needs of the "little people" so they can continue to waste tax payer dollars any way they see fit. Our last good governer was Gary Locke but his party has run the budget into the red every year since he left.

Please do not allow these political pirates to hold your business hostage until federal law is enacted to allow the collection of taxes for internet sales. Just watch Microsoft mount a legal challenge if Washington State tries to tax its customers around the world. You own them nothing and the law is currently on your side. Please stand your ground and I will encourage others in the state to vote against those who dreamed up this mess. This is the result of legal pot use in our state! They have had a windfall of money from pot sales and have already wasted it without meeting current fiscal obligations. They will do the same with your time and money necessary to illegally collect taxes on internet sales. This is a clear case of state government overreach peroid. Let them fight it out in your California courts or in Nevada since you warehouse there. Hire an attorney to look into their "request" before you comply.

I agree 100% until the voters in this state wake up and stop drinking the kool-aid the current administration is pushing on the residents of WA and putting fear into out of state online businesses what's next?

 

[George Willings]

Ummmm, sorry, as a business owner this is absolutely legal. Furthermore, if you charge someone in Washington state Minnesota tax, that is illegal, the company has to charge them the tax rate of Washington state. Oregon is 1 state that people would not be charged any sales tax at all. It is illegal to NOT charge a sales tax. Anyone that says that it is illegal to charge someone a sales tax at their states tax rate simply has no clue to what they are talking about.

 

[MnFish1]

Still don't understand how its legal. Im buying something in Wisconsin through a company that has no location or nexus or whatever in California, if anything I should pay Wisconsin sales tax not CAs. If i physically drove to WI to pick up my order I'd pay WI sales tax. Why should I have to pay CA sales tax just cause the item is shipped here. The State wants to get their hands on everything, and the state gets to make the laws not based on whats fair, but based on the presumption that this money is theirs, no ifs, ands or buts about it.

Let's say you live in WI and buy something in CA. (As an individual not a business)

1. If you buy it when you are visiting CA, you pay CA tax - you don't pay Wisconsin tax.
2. If you buy it when you are visiting CA and have it shipped to WI, you are supposed to pay WI use tax (if WI has a use tax)
3. If you order something online in WI from a company in CA, you owe WI sales tax (if your WI taxes internet purchases) - whether the company charges you or not. You dont pay CA tax. If you don't owe 'sales tax' you may owe 'use tax'

Many people don't understand 'Use tax' which several states have - meaning that even if you have something shipped from somewhere else to your home, you still owe taxes (from your home state - if they have a use tax).

http://www.salestaxinstitute.com/Sales_Tax_FAQs/the_difference_between_sales_tax_and_use_tax

 

[MnFish1]

I agree 100% until the voters in this state wake up and stop drinking the kool-aid the current administration is pushing on the residents of WA and putting fear into out of state online businesses what's next?

On the other hand - if a person happens to live in MN (where BRS is) and order something online from them and have it shipped, they have to pay MN state tax. In any case - its not BRS that is making these crazy rules, its each state. Though I hate taxes, I can see the point for taxing internet purchases - to help local businesses in that state 'even the playing field'.

 

[MnFish1]

Purchase a Share in a property in a state with little or no sales tax, then deliver to your home, It's more common than you think and in this hobby it might just be worth it.

My guess is that this could be problematic - and in any case - if your state has a 'use tax' this wouldn't help.

 

[George Willings]

Wow, lol. I mean it seriously only takes minimal logic to understand. Basic logic is all that is needed to understand this.

 

[MnFish1]

Let's say you live in WI and buy something in CA. (As an individual not a business)

1. If you buy it when you are visiting CA, you pay CA tax - you don't pay Wisconsin tax.
2. If you buy it when you are visiting CA and have it shipped to WI, you are supposed to pay WI use tax (if WI has a use tax)
3. If you order something online in WI from a company in CA, you owe WI sales tax (if your WI taxes internet purchases) - whether the company charges you or not. You dont pay CA tax. If you don't owe 'sales tax' you may owe 'use tax'

There is a #4:

4. If you buy something in a state (while visiting there - like a neighboring state) that has no sales tax, and you bring it back to your home state, if your home state has a 'use tax', you are required to pay it.

 

[MnFish1]

I live in Tennessee, and as of right now I am not affected by this sales tax thing. But, if and when it does take effect here I will not like it, but, there are pros and cons to everything. to have the convenience of not having to drive 40 miles to my LFS is well worth the sales tax i will pay buying from BRS. How I look at it I am still saving money and time. Plus there is excellent customer service dealing with BRS, and for that alone, in my opinion, is worth sales tax that I am going to anyway.

'From the Tennessee Dept of revenue: The use tax is the counterpart to the sales tax. It is applied when merchandise (tangible personal property) is purchased from outside the state of Tennessee and imported into the state for use or consumption. The 45 states that impose a sales tax also levy a use tax.'

The state 'bolded' the text not me btw lol. But basically every state that has a 'state tax' also has a 'use tax'. Supposedly, especially for large purchases, states are able to request records from vendors of all purchases from an internet company and bill the residents (especially now with internet selling). Oh - and when they discover it 5 years after the purchase, they also assess penalties and interest. I doubt TN would go to a company like BRS to do this - but Amazon etc - yeah maybe.

 

[Turbo's Aquatics]

2. If you buy it when you are visiting CA and have it shipped to WI, you are supposed to pay WI use tax (if WI has a use tax)

From the perspective of the seller, if the seller is a local store in CA, they collect (and the buyer pays) CA sales tax and it ends there for the seller. As for the use tax for something bought in another state and brought home, wow really? Enforce that one, good luck, especially if paid with cash in person.

4. If you buy something in a state (while visiting there - like a neighboring state) that has no sales tax, and you bring it back to your home state, if your home state has a 'use tax', you are required to pay it.

Again, good luck with that one.

I wish there was a way to block certain people

Click their username then on the member card pop-up, click "ignore". This hides all their posts but shows placeholders.

 

[jduong916]

'From the Tennessee Dept of revenue: The use tax is the counterpart to the sales tax. It is applied when merchandise (tangible personal property) is purchased from outside the state of Tennessee and imported into the state for use or consumption. The 45 states that impose a sales tax also levy a use tax.'

The state 'bolded' the text not me btw lol. But basically every state that has a 'state tax' also has a 'use tax'. Supposedly, especially for large purchases, states are able to request records from vendors of all purchases from an internet company and bill the residents (especially now with internet selling). Oh - and when they discover it 5 years after the purchase, they also assess penalties and interest. I doubt TN would go to a company like BRS to do this - but Amazon etc - yeah maybe.

A "use tax" is just a made up state law to tax large out of state purchases such as vehicles and machinery. It is designed to circumvent the quill ruling, so in my opinion it's not even legal. Honestly what is a "use tax" it sounds ridiculous. Also the "use tax" is not even supposed to be collected unless a company has nexus in the State, otherwise it would be in direct violation of the Quill ruling. The state basically labeled "sales tax" as "use tax" to get around charging sales tax on out of state purchases.

 

[Turbo's Aquatics]

A "use tax" is just a made up state made law to tax large out of state purchases such as vehicles and machinery.

Our state used it to collect tax from a dentist's office for giving away toothbrushes and floss (goodie bag) to each patient - they bought the supplies tax exempt and gave them away, so they considered those items to fall under the state's Use Tax clause.

 

[MnFish1]

A "use tax" is just a made up state law to tax large out of state purchases such as vehicles and machinery. It is designed to circumvent the quill ruling, so in my opinion it's not even legal. Honestly what is a "use tax" it sounds ridiculous. Also the "use tax" is not even supposed to be collected unless a company has nexus in the State, otherwise it would be in direct violation of the Quill ruling. The state basically labeled "sales tax" as "use tax" to get around charging sales tax on out of state purchases.

It means (and 45 states have it) that if you buy something in one state (that you aren't a resident of and were not charged sales tax), you need to pay your own state tax on it (to your own state), if you haven't paid tax in the state in which you bought the item. You can say its illegal etc - but its not. Whether its ridiculous or not - well that wasnt the issue.

From the perspective of the seller, if the seller is a local store in CA, they collect (and the buyer pays) CA sales tax and it ends there for the seller. As for the use tax for something bought in another state and brought home, wow really? Enforce that one, good luck, especially if paid with cash in person.
Again, good luck with that one.

You're correct about the seller/buyer above. The use tax only applies if the seller does NOT charge you sales tax. If you pay sales tax in the 'foreign' state, you dont owe 'use tax' in your own. As to collecting it - you're correct - the issue though is because of internet sales, etc - this is more of a common problem.

 

[George Willings]

Floyd R Turbo, we know that they would really love to enforce it, but realistically the states do not have the resources to do so. Which is why we are all guilty of it at some point.

On the blocking, thanks.

 

[jduong916]

It means (and 45 states have it) that if you buy something in one state (that you aren't a resident of and were not charged sales tax), you need to pay your own state tax on it (to your own state), if you haven't paid tax in the state in which you bought the item. You can say its illegal etc - but its not. Whether its ridiculous or not - well that wasnt the issue.

So let me ask you this, was "use tax" in existence before the Quill ruling. Isn't "use tax" basically "sales tax", just renamed so the state can collect it and circumvent Quill? To me it sounds like a made up law that shouldn't be legal. It is legal though, but my point is, it's not legal lol.

In CA "use tax" can only be collected if the company has nexus in CA. If there is no nexus then you are not required to pay use tax. I don't think this will work for car purchases though, they just hold your registration hostage until you pay it.

 

[George Willings]

No, sales tax has been around longer than I have been alive. If a business is doing sales on the internet, they are required to charge you a tax rate according to the state you live in. I really do not see what the problem is? Except a bunch of people crying because they feel they are being ripped off. If you don't like it, complain to your Congress representative. Otherwise, create a business and buy wholesale. This sales tax thing did not just pop up over night. Internet sales have been charging sales tax according to buyers state tax rate for about a decade now.

 

[jduong916]

No, sales tax has been around longer than I have been alive. If a business is doing sales on the internet, they are required to charge you a tax rate according to the state you live in. I really do not see what the problem is? Except a bunch of people crying because they feel they are being ripped off. If you don't like it, complain to your Congress representative. Otherwise, create a business and buy wholesale. This sales tax thing did not just pop up over night. Internet sales have been charging sales tax according to buyers state tax rate for about a decade now.

The problem is there has been a case on this very subject. The Quill case states that tax does not have to be paid on out of state purchases if the company has no physical presence in your state. That's the law right now. That's why I have such a big gripe with "use tax", a state law used to circumvent a federal law. If they overturn Quill then fine, but so far they haven't. That's what the problem is, WA is collecting sales tax that they have no right to.

 

[George Willings]

The problem is you reference a case that has nothing to do with sales tax that each state has agreed to enforce.

 

[jduong916]

The problem is you reference a case that has nothing to do with sales tax that each state has agreed to enforce.

Ummm, the case case has nothing to do with sales tax and out of state purchases?

 

[Daniel@R2R]

I'm removing several posts from this thread and editing several others. We encourage discussion here, and even spirited debate is welcome. However, personal attacks on other members is not allowed and will not be tolerated. Please keep the discussion civil.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

The largest potential problem is the tax laws in each state that require the local, county and state tax be collected at time and place of sale or delivery. Each county, and city in Washington has the ability to add to the states sales tax. So now if Washington prevails in black mailing internet sellers the counties and cities will step up to claim thier share and then you will see the huge difficulity in fairly recording the transactions for each sale. As a potential internet seller I would just close my doors and call it a day. There are 39 counties that collect different sales rates and the Washington state tax form requires sellers to record the sale at the point of delivery. In my case it increases if you add the local sales tax added by the cities. There is no end to the actual complications this will cause in actual audits and a small work force to over see it.

Washington has had several tax revolts over the years. It used to cost me over $3000.00 each year to license and pay use tax for a used $16,000.00 car (my numbers might be off some do to old age but not much). Tim Eyman and others prevailed in an election to overturn this huge largese by the politicians in Olympia. After the voted tax revolt it cost only $35.00 per vehicle per year....then Olympia has slowly increased the price to about $200.00 average per car. Keep in mind we still pay the sales tax on the actual value of the car before we can license it for the first year and that is huge given the price of new cars. I have not purchased a new vehicle since 1987 because of the huge waste of money in terms of loss of value and taxes you pay to acquire it. But think how much better it is for us not to have to pay use tax each year on the "book value" or whatever value the state tax commision wanted to charge you for the right to use your own property!

I just want ask people at this point in America do you actually own anything of real value or property when you have to pay the government for the right to access and use the property you have actually already paid for? I will lose my house unless I pay the huge property taxes each year. I will lose my business unless I pay the property taxes on all the equipment I purchased over 20 years ago. It is actually a joke on us the tax payer to assume we own anything...we are actually all paying tribute to the "king" just like before we became a nation.

I hope you all realize that no company pays taxes on anything at all...we just collect them and pay them to the government and add the tax cost to the cost of the product you purchase. So each consumer is paying my company's use tax, sales tax, property tax, insurance, overhead expenses and related as a cost of doing business. These are addded to the cost of the product you purchase. As a result we are all paying a much larger portion of our income than the federal tax table reveals. It has already reached a point where the average American will have to work until April 23 this year before they will be able to pay their tax burden. Think about that it is now about 1/3 of your work year before you can cover the tax expenses for the year 2018. When will enough be enough? The new tax Simple 1040 form one day will simple ask "How much did you earn last year" Send it to the IRS by April 15...or else. Don't you think it is time to ask why our roads, airports, rail system, health care and other realted services cost so much and are in such bad shape? Just saying Congress has some explaining to do don't you think? By the way just look how good a job Washington did on the recent rail upgrade between Portland and Seattle!!! That is our tax dollars at work.

Well off to pay taxes....have a great day in America! I still think this is one of the best places to live based on my limited travels in our world!

I guess the only thing fishy in this post is my opinion! Have a better day tomorrow!