New to dosing, now sure how to start

[Jackson_H]

Hey yall, I have a 20 gallon reef tank. It’s my first saltwater tank ever after doing freshwater for a couple years. It’s been set up for 9 months. Im a full time student and I can’t lie I had been falling behind on some maintenance. I had a brown slime on everything that created bubbles during the day, I learned that they are dinoflagellates from my LFS. I tested my tank and my nitrate and phosphate were bottomed out. They recommended that I start dosing nitrogen and phosphorous, to grow other types of algae to outcompete the Dino’s, and go from there.

I have sea chem reef nitrogen and phosphorous. And I’ve done beginner level research into how to dose, but as someone who is extremely detail oriented and likes a step by step plan, I’m having a hard time beginning as I’m just intimidated by the concept as a whole.

So how do I start dosing? Like how often do I dose and how much? What things should I expect to see in the tank? That kind of stuff.

Sorry for the short essay, but any help would be appreciated, thank yall!

 

[Channas]

I suggest you start at half dose of what it says on the bottles and measure the nitrate and phosphate the day after and see where it lands and tweak the dose according to your test result and while you do that maybe daily at first you will also see how much your tank consume once you have a baseline which will give you an idea on how much and how often you need to dose.

What you most likley will see first is gha but fingers crossed you wont and you will just see a green hue or Brown hue the rocks

 

[SantaMonica Verified Sponsor]

If you just let the natural periphyton develop on the rock, it will out-compete the brown stuff.

 

[Channas]

If you just let the natural periphyton develop on the rock, it will out-compete the brown stuff.

Without nutrients they most likley will not develope

 

[SantaMonica Verified Sponsor]

Many periphyton (esp coralline) grows best in "zero" tested nutrients.

 

[Channas]

Many periphyton (esp coralline) grows best in "zero" tested nutrients.

Oh i did not know that, i thought everything needed some kind of nutrient to grow, do they utilize calcium/magnesium/alk as their primary food source as Well as building blocks instead or how do they grow without the ”normal” nutrients?

 

[slingfox]

Search on this board for how to battle Dino’s. There are numerous threads on it. For dosing nitrates, read the bottle and calculate how much you need to add to get to 5ppm in your tank. Similarly, for phosphate you can dose to 0.05ppm. Unfortunately, until the tank stabilizes, you should test nitrates and phosphates every day along with doing the various other things recommended to combat dinos includingmanual removal of as much Dino’s each day as possible. See the threads on the subject.

 

[SantaMonica Verified Sponsor]

Oh i did not know that, i thought everything needed some kind of nutrient to grow, do they utilize calcium/magnesium/alk as their primary food source as Well as building blocks instead or how do they grow without the ”normal” nutrients?

There still are nutrients even when tests say "zero". Real reefs all measure "zero" with hobby kits.

 

[CHSUB]

Many periphyton (esp coralline) grows best in "zero" tested nutrients.

To people note comment with “zero” in quotes. Why? Because there are plenty of nutrients that is why brown stuff is growing, brown stuff is the first colonizer. “Zero” is simply below hobby testing resolution and very, very, very unlikely to be deficient and nearly impossible to be 0.00 (zero)
LFS would very much enjoy selling additives.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Oh i did not know that, i thought everything needed some kind of nutrient to grow, do they utilize calcium/magnesium/alk as their primary food source as Well as building blocks instead or how do they grow without the ”normal” nutrients?

I don't agree with it anyway, or at least not to the extent that it matters. Coralline has grown in my tank (set up last year) very rapidly and extensively. So much so that folks in my build thread have commented repeatedly on it. I maintain around 10 ppm nitrate (target 5-50 ppm) and 0.3 ppm phosphate.

 

[CHSUB]

I don't agree with it anyway, or at least not to the extent that it matters. Coralline has grown in my tank (set up last year) very rapidly and extensively. So much so that folks in my build thread have commented repeatedly on it. I maintain around 10 ppm nitrate (target 5-50 ppm) and 0.3 ppm phosphate.

Yes, lots of coralline….with po4 at 0.3, what level would you believe po4 inhibites calcification and slows growth?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Yes, lots of coralline….with po4 at 0.3, what level would you believe po4 inhibites calcification and slows growth?

I don't know for coralline. Never seen data. Might be slowed even in my tank, but is still as fast as most anyone would want.

 

[Channas]

I don't agree with it anyway, or at least not to the extent that it matters. Coralline has grown in my tank (set up last year) very rapidly and extensively. So much so that folks in my build thread have commented repeatedly on it. I maintain around 10 ppm nitrate (target 5-50 ppm) and 0.3 ppm phosphate.

Yeah seemed suspicious but im open to learn new things. Thats some crazy growth, i have alot of it as Well but i have the kind that use magnesium as its primary building block rather than calcium which i feel like grows faster than the type that use calcium but i do have a sea urchin that plows through it in my tank otherwise mine would look close to yours i think

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

To clarify, all coralline deposit high magnesium calcite, which still has 10 times as much calcium as magnesium (by weight). That makes it a big users of magnesium relative to many corals, but it’s still mostly calcium carbonate. :)

 

[Channas]

To clarify, all coralline deposit high magnesium calcite, which still has 10 times as much calcium as magnesium (by weight). That makes it a big users of magnesium relative to many corals, but it’s still mostly calcium carbonate. :)

Yes but there are species of coraline that use magnesium more than calcium, for example in my tank magnesium is getting consumed ALOT more than calcium, so much that i dose it Almost as much as kh, my calcium gets dosed about 3 times/24h 5ml each dose while magnesium 20 times/24h about 10-15ml each dose and kh 24times/24h 10-15ml each dose to keep my params within my goal range and stable. Sure i do keep alot of ephyllia but that doesnt explain the massive consumption of magnesium.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Yes but there are species of coraline that use magnesium more than calcium, for example in my tank magnesium is getting consumed ALOT more than calcium, so much that i dose it Almost as much as kh, my calcium gets dosed about 3 times/24h 5ml each dose while magnesium 20 times/24h about 10-15ml each dose and kh 24times/24h 10-15ml each dose to keep my params within my goal range and stable. Sure i do keep alot of ephyllia but that doesnt explain the massive consumption of magnesium.

That assertion seems extraordinarily unlikely to me, but before I claim it as simply wrong, what is the evidence of a coralline algae that deposits a material with more magnesium than calcium?

The google search ai apparently does not know of any:

No, there is no known species of coralline algae that deposits a skeletal material containing more magnesium than calcium

 

[Channas]

That assertion seems extraordinarily unlikely to me, but before I claim it as simply wrong, what is the evidence of a coralline algae that deposits a material with more magnesium than calcium?

The google search ai apparently does not know of any:

No, there is no known species of coralline algae that deposits a skeletal material containing more magnesium than calcium

These species ydrolithon onkodes and Porolithon use usually about 10-15% mg more than calcium by weight

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

These species ydrolithon onkodes and Porolithon use usually about 10-15% mg more than calcium by weight

Do you have data supporting that claim?

While I was unaware that any coralline deposited any amount of dolomite or magnesite, the amount of magnesium in this paper for the first species you mention is much less
Magnesium than calcium, and close to my 10% assertion.

https://bg.copernicus.org/articles/8/3331/2011/bg-8-3331-2011.pdf
They show about 17mole percent magnesium carbonate (the remainder is calcium carbonate) in those samples that did not contain aragonite, which would lower the value more.

17 mole percent magnesium carbonate and 83 percent calcium carbonate is about a weight ratio of magnesium at 1/10th of the calcium (12 weight percent magnesium and 88 weight percent calcium)

 

[Channas]

Yeah but enviromental factors can cause that type of algae to shift towards magnesium, i will try and find that article again where i read about this and get back to you

 

[Channas]

Btw We totaly highjacked this thread