Newbie questions on pH and alkalinity

[noober]

HELP PLEASE!! **Confused Newbie alert**

Ok, so I just started my journey on adding in corals to my tank. I have a 40gal AIO which started off with mainly zoas and a bubble coral, a rainbow BTA and a hammer with a maroon clownfish (1.5in), six line (1in), valentini puffer (2in), fire goby(2in) all living in harmony. I added a lobo in about 3 weeks ago as well. I have checked my parameters once weekly for a little over 2 months now and they have remained stable. I also do water changes every 1-2 weeks and I haven't yet dosed it with any Ca/Mg or anything, just do the water changes and my parameters have been within the ff ranges:
ph - 8.2-8.4
alkalinity - 8.5-9
ca - 440-450
mg 1280-1300
sg 1.025-1.026
phosphates, nitrates and ammonia at minimal levels

Since they were stable, I dropped checking parameters to every 2 weeks now and I went out and got 2 torches about a week ago. So I did my usual water change as well as my tests just last Sunday and these were the results:
ph - 7.4
alkalinity - 9.2
ca - 360
mg - 1200
sg - 1.026
phosphates, nitrates and ammonia at minimal levels
Not really sure what happened which caused the numbers to change. I've been using the same test kits from beginning, API for pH, PO4,NH,NO2/3 and Ca, red sea for alkalinity, salifert for Mg. I bought and dosed for Ca and Mg already but I'm so confused as to what to do for pH and alkalinity bec some forums say if ph is 7.4, need to add bicarb to increase it, but if i add bicarb, it will further inc my alkalinity wc is already at 9.2. Help!

I did notice my lobo not to be as plump and happy as he used to be (still eating though when i spot feed!) and my pink/green zoa kinda staying closed, but i have a blue hornet, nightmare, scrambled eggs and space chaos zoas all doing fine and everything else in the tank looks happy and fine. Any advice on how to balance this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The pH is not accurate at pH 7.4, and bicarbonate is NOT EVER a good way to raise pH in a reef tank. It actually lowers pH when added. Ignore pH for now.

The calcium is likely the same level as in your salt mix. Which mix? If calcium is accurate, the salinity is likely low and that’s why.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The magnesium also did not get consumed. Low salinity or test error.

 

[Nano sapiens]

Firstly, I personally wouldn't trust the API kit. Get a second pH test from your local LFS or use something like the Salifert kit (inexpensive, reasonably accurate and very importantly it's much more consistent). It is unlikely that your pH is that low (low pH is usually only seen when reef aquarium is in a room with many people and tightly closed up).

Alkalinity is very important for those with stony corals and most reef keepers monitor this parameter quite often (daily, or 2-3x week is common depending on circumstances). Most use a 'balanced' product (kalkwasser, 2-part) that automatically provides the correct amount of Alk and Ca that is used by corals (and other calcifying organisms). Another newer product on the market that supplies Alk, Ca and Mag in one application is 'All For Reef'. Many like this product due to the convenience of dosing all of the 'Big 3' at once, but it is on the pricier side.

I use 'old school' kalkwasser, which is nothing more than 'pickling lime' mixed with water, as it tends to maintain reef optimal pH levels and it's the cheapest by far. Check out the Kalkwasser articles by Randy Holmes-Farley for a deeper dive.

Hope that helps.

 

[resortez]

Parameters will swing depending on your system, animals & husbandry, from skimmers & reactors pulling compounds out of the water column, to acidic waste from the animals & foods fed to the system. The small tightly closed aquarium system will create difficulties in keeping such a tiny ecosystem in balance, that’s where the hobbyist comes in to rectify any imbalances, the cost of an artificial environment. That’s why larger systems are easier to maintain stable because of the volume of water but maintenance is more labor intensive. Several compounds in the water column will continue to be consumed or broken down in an artificial setting, our job is to maintain stability. Not sure how long you had your tank going but the initial stages are always the most difficult because its new & still maturing, developing a solid foundation of micro fauna. As the tank matures & programs to your routines in feeding & maintenance, parameters will read more stable but still require dosing of several elements & compounds. It’s part of the hobby. Can’t expect a dog to be self sustaining in a man made world, the fog requires his grooming, balanced diet, visits to the vet, walks & a strong owner to be in command, similar principles with your tank or any other pet. Don’t let the swings discourage you, find the sweet spot in your routines through frequent testing & data collection in order to find that nice cruising wave you can ride & maintain your system stable. Dosing mechanism are a big help in keeping things stable, all animals in your tank will thrive in a stable environment. Another thing that make a world of a difference, data collection. Start a log of your parameters & feeding practices. Having a clear picture of when & how often parameters begin to dip will give you a head start & more control over your tank, keeping you a head of any road bumps. Something as simple as a note pad & pen to jot down data will give you so much control. As always, there’s nothing more beneficial than a good old school water change. Best advice I was ever given in this hobby, read, read, read & when you are done reading, read some more. Learning process never stops. Why this hobby continues to evolve, must allow room for growth. Hope it helps & keep moving forward.

 

[noober]

The pH is not accurate at pH 7.4, and bicarbonate is NOT EVER a good way to raise pH in a reef tank. It actually lowers pH when added. Ignore pH for now.

The calcium is likely the same level as in your salt mix. Which mix? If calcium is accurate, the salinity is likely low and that’s why.

I just buy premixed Saltwater from our LFS when I do water changes. I use a refractometer to check salinity. I always check it against RODI water first to make sure it's at the 0 mark and calibrate it if it isnt prior to checking my salinity. Right now I checked again its at 1.025.

 

[noober]

Firstly, I personally wouldn't trust the API kit. Get a second pH test from your local LFS or use something like the Salifert kit (inexpensive, reasonably accurate and very importantly it's much more consistent). It is unlikely that your pH is that low (low pH is usually only seen when reef aquarium is in a room with many people and tightly closed up).

Alkalinity is very important for those with stony corals and most reef keepers monitor this parameter quite often (daily, or 2-3x week is common depending on circumstances). Most use a 'balanced' product (kalkwasser, 2-part) that automatically provides the correct amount of Alk and Ca that is used by corals (and other calcifying organisms). Another newer product on the market that supplies Alk, Ca and Mag in one application is 'All For Reef'. Many like this product due to the convenience of dosing all of the 'Big 3' at once, but it is on the pricier side.

I use 'old school' kalkwasser, which is nothing more than 'pickling lime' mixed with water, as it tends to maintain reef optimal pH levels and it's the cheapest by far. Check out the Kalkwasser articles by Randy Holmes-Farley for a deeper dive.

Hope that helps.

OK got it. I used to have only a fowler. The tanks been up about 4months now. I downsized from a 90 gal due to space but pretty much just transferred all the live sand, and live rock and same water when I downsized, then continued to do the weekly water changes. I was thinking about getting another brand of test kits. I'll probably order it online since I didn't see my LFS to carry salifert or all for reef. Thank you so much for the advice!

 

[noober]

The magnesium also did not get consumed. Low salinity or test error.

Might be test error. I'll order a diff brand of test kits and retest over the weekend. I've never really dosed my tank before and this is my first time doing it, what brand can u suggest I get for the Ca and MG? Petco is the nearest fish store but the new LFS that just opened up currently only carries red sea and they are on the pricier side. Should I get powder or liquid forms?

 

[noober]

Parameters will swing depending on your system, animals & husbandry, from skimmers & reactors pulling compounds out of the water column, to acidic waste from the animals & foods fed to the system. The small tightly closed aquarium system will create difficulties in keeping such a tiny ecosystem in balance, that’s where the hobbyist comes in to rectify any imbalances, the cost of an artificial environment. That’s why larger systems are easier to maintain stable because of the volume of water but maintenance is more labor intensive. Several compounds in the water column will continue to be consumed or broken down in an artificial setting, our job is to maintain stability. Not sure how long you had your tank going but the initial stages are always the most difficult because its new & still maturing, developing a solid foundation of micro fauna. As the tank matures & programs to your routines in feeding & maintenance, parameters will read more stable but still require dosing of several elements & compounds. It’s part of the hobby. Can’t expect a dog to be self sustaining in a man made world, the fog requires his grooming, balanced diet, visits to the vet, walks & a strong owner to be in command, similar principles with your tank or any other pet. Don’t let the swings discourage you, find the sweet spot in your routines through frequent testing & data collection in order to find that nice cruising wave you can ride & maintain your system stable. Dosing mechanism are a big help in keeping things stable, all animals in your tank will thrive in a stable environment. Another thing that make a world of a difference, data collection. Start a log of your parameters & feeding practices. Having a clear picture of when & how often parameters begin to dip will give you a head start & more control over your tank, keeping you a head of any road bumps. Something as simple as a note pad & pen to jot down data will give you so much control. As always, there’s nothing more beneficial than a good old school water change. Best advice I was ever given in this hobby, read, read, read & when you are done reading, read some more. Learning process never stops. Why this hobby continues to evolve, must allow room for growth. Hope it helps & keep moving forward.

Ive had a FOWLR for over a year already and ive been waiting for my tank to mature so I could get corals. I already am keeping track of my parameters, and yes I do have a specific notebook just for writing down my parameters, as well as when I last dosed the tank and when I did water changes. I do this right now bc I don't have a doser and have to do things manually. I recently just bought an ATO unit and am in the market to get a doser but I want to be able to understand the chemical technicalities first wc is why I'm reading and watching YouTube vids but there are so many and they also have conflicting info wc is why I posted my question here, hoping someone can better guide me in the right direction and I'm afraid your response didn't really answer my questions. I'm not discouraged, I'm literally asking for help so that I can keep going. I wanna make sure that before I dose anything into the tank, I fully understand how it will affect everything else I'm supposed to be watching out for so I dont learn my lesson the hard way and kill off one or 2 of these beautiful creatures. You mentioned you are constantly reading, are there any articles you could maybe suggest that I could read and can help me understand balancing parameters in regards to the kind of reef tank I'm keeping? A link or title/author of any article would be helpful and appreciated.

 

[resortez]

Maybe I didn’t quite understand your question or can’t find it on the OP but I’m reading that your cant quite understand or looking to understand why parameters have fluctuated. My response is that it happens because of the closed loop system we put these animals in, the artificial environment has no natural mechanism that replenishes consumed elements & compounds like in nature so we must have a hand in replenishing what is being consumed by the inhabitants of the aquarium. The coral will pull & absorb compounds off the water column to sustain life, along with all other life in the aquarium, from microscopic single cell to multi cell & all up & down the food chain in the aquarium. Naturally as organisms feed, numbers will drop, we replenish what has been consumed. Also consider mechanical & chemical filtration will remove compounds from the water column, fluctuating numbers because these items don’t discriminate just absorb whatever goes through it. Understanding that process & everything going on in the aquarium will allow you to see a buffer zone where you can play with dosing & correcting parameters to a more natural setting/environment, it’s a wave you are going to constantly be riding. Just don’t ride massive swings, those are heartbreaking. So don’t be too concerned with losing a few numbers, it’s only the animals feeding off the water column & that can be corrected with dosing. About info on the web, there’s tons of it that you will need to sort through because yes, lots of it is contradicting, conflicting, corrected & rewritten, the professionals are still discovering more & more new info. The best way to tell the tank & its inhabitants are well is with your own 2 eyes, observation is the best tool we have. If all animals are looking healthy, happy & display natural behavior, your on the right track. Lots of reef veterans will tell you 2 different tanks could have completely 2 different parameter readings but both tanks are doing excellent & all animals are thriving. No 2 systems will be the same. Give your system what it needs, dosing is feeding. I read that things looked better with a stable PH above 8, if the animals looked excellent at that parameter, provide them those numbers. Now alk numbers are still a bit confusing to me. I have read hobbyist do excellent at 7-8, articles with success at 9-10 & journals where rapid growth was achieved at 12 in a laboratory under a controlled setting. There’s also cases where I read bleaching & RTN happened where alk went above 15, author didn’t provide a clear explanation how it got that high. Also have heard that alk is not quite a compound but more of a reading of how efficient the system is in processing elements to form compounds, ionic bond, interaction, formation or deformation, all that good stuff that builds & sustains life. As much as I’ve gather, understood & put into practice, don’t push alk above 12 & some have success as low as 7-8, keep it in check & keep everything else at a good natural number, swings/fluctuations are natural as long as it’s not a massive dip, good water changes keeps things stable, consistency is good, good routines maintains stability & your animals will always show you when your doing an excellent job or when something is off, they are the ones inside the water & will let you know immediately. Hopefully I answered a question or helped a little.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I just buy premixed Saltwater from our LFS when I do water changes. I use a refractometer to check salinity. I always check it against RODI water first to make sure it's at the 0 mark and calibrate it if it isnt prior to checking my salinity. Right now I checked again its at 1.025.

I don’t know if your refractometer is accurate (the most common types in the hobby shouldn’t be calibrated with ro/di despite claims otherwise) but if it is, calcium and magnesium will rise substantially if you boost the salinity to the ocean average of 35 ppt, sg = 1.0264.

 

[noober]

Maybe I didn’t quite understand your question or can’t find it on the OP but I’m reading that your cant quite understand or looking to understand why parameters have fluctuated. My response is that it happens because of the closed loop system we put these animals in, the artificial environment has no natural mechanism that replenishes consumed elements & compounds like in nature so we must have a hand in replenishing what is being consumed by the inhabitants of the aquarium. The coral will pull & absorb compounds off the water column to sustain life, along with all other life in the aquarium, from microscopic single cell to multi cell & all up & down the food chain in the aquarium. Naturally as organisms feed, numbers will drop, we replenish what has been consumed. Also consider mechanical & chemical filtration will remove compounds from the water column, fluctuating numbers because these items don’t discriminate just absorb whatever goes through it. Understanding that process & everything going on in the aquarium will allow you to see a buffer zone where you can play with dosing & correcting parameters to a more natural setting/environment, it’s a wave you are going to constantly be riding. Just don’t ride massive swings, those are heartbreaking. So don’t be too concerned with losing a few numbers, it’s only the animals feeding off the water column & that can be corrected with dosing. About info on the web, there’s tons of it that you will need to sort through because yes, lots of it is contradicting, conflicting, corrected & rewritten, the professionals are still discovering more & more new info. The best way to tell the tank & its inhabitants are well is with your own 2 eyes, observation is the best tool we have. If all animals are looking healthy, happy & display natural behavior, your on the right track. Lots of reef veterans will tell you 2 different tanks could have completely 2 different parameter readings but both tanks are doing excellent & all animals are thriving. No 2 systems will be the same. Give your system what it needs, dosing is feeding. I read that things looked better with a stable PH above 8, if the animals looked excellent at that parameter, provide them those numbers. Now alk numbers are still a bit confusing to me. I have read hobbyist do excellent at 7-8, articles with success at 9-10 & journals where rapid growth was achieved at 12 in a laboratory under a controlled setting. There’s also cases where I read bleaching & RTN happened where alk went above 15, author didn’t provide a clear explanation how it got that high. Also have heard that alk is not quite a compound but more of a reading of how efficient the system is in processing elements to form compounds, ionic bond, interaction, formation or deformation, all that good stuff that builds & sustains life. As much as I’ve gather, understood & put into practice, don’t push alk above 12 & some have success as low as 7-8, keep it in check & keep everything else at a good natural number, swings/fluctuations are natural as long as it’s not a massive dip, good water changes keeps things stable, consistency is good, good routines maintains stability & your animals will always show you when your doing an excellent job or when something is off, they are the ones inside the water & will let you know immediately. Hopefully I answered a question or helped a little.

Ok, now this was super helpful. I was quite surprised and thought I may have done something wrong or maybe added corals too quickly because for the past almost 3 months, all my parameters have been relatively the same. But when I added the most recent torches and checked parameters, they were all of a sudden out of the usual ranges I would get when checking. So I was concerned I may have done something wrong but from what I gather, its just part of the system trying to balance itself out. I've never really dosed anything before, and this is the first time I am actually dosing Ca and Mg into the system. From what I have read, those are the 2 main things people usually dose. Others I've read say they dose the additional minerals and "vitamins" that is usually seen in a reef environment, others say they dose iodine, others even dose compounds of A B or C stuff which I'm not familiar with either. I have a few follow up questions:
1. Should I really be dosing the Ca and Mg for now to help this system adjust itself?
2. Like you mentioned, I have also read that diff corals thrive at diff pH levels. Since I have torches, hammers, zoas, bubble coral, a zoa, and an anemone(i know its not really a coral) would this be considered a mixed reef? If so, is there a sort of middle ground pH level that I should try to achieve or should I just stick to whats currently in the system since everything is acting pretty normal and just stay away from anything higher than 12?
3. If 12 is the higher threshold, I've read some people say nothing lower than 7.5, other say nothing lower than 7 or the corals will die. what would be the considered allowable lowest pH?
4. You mentioned that these corals consume the elements naturally found in nature, and since this is a closed system, technically it does not produce those elements right? I've read other people who just do water changes and don't dose their tanks at all which is why I was doing the same thing as I was afraid to cause massive swings. But now that my tank is kind of not really maintaining itself with just the water changes, should I dose on a regular schedule from now on?

My goal is to keep everybody in my tank happy, and I know this is the beginning of a long and learning process. Any further advice would be greatly appreciated! #KnowledgeIsKey

 

[noober]

I don’t know if your refractometer is accurate (the most common types in the hobby shouldn’t be calibrated with ro/di despite claims otherwise) but if it is, calcium and magnesium will rise substantially if you boost the salinity to the ocean average of 35 ppt, sg = 1.0264.

Any suggestions on how to measure the salinity if not via my refractometer? I just got this one as a hand-me-down. Maybe I need to get a new one? If not calibrated with rodi, how can I calibrate it so that it measures accurately?

 

[exnisstech]

Any suggestions on how to measure the salinity if not via my refractometer? I just got this one as a hand-me-down. Maybe I need to get a new one? If not calibrated with rodi, how can I calibrate it so that it measures accurately?

you need calibration fluid. there is a recipe here that you can make using ordinary table salt. I just did the measure method (no scale) and it was spot on.

 

[noober]

you need calibration fluid. there is a recipe here that you can make using ordinary table salt. I just did the measure method (no scale) and it was spot on.

Great read, very informative. I'll be checking my refractometer using this calibration method. So basically if I measure out using Morton iodized salt, the 3.65% concentration, it should read 1.026 on the refractometer right? And if it doesnt read correctly, instead of using the tiny screw to adjust the line, its better that I just make note of the difference and adjust the readings I get based on that difference? I hope I understood it correctly. The article also mentioned in passing something about self-correcting based on temperature, does that really matter when I'm using the refractometer?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I've never really dosed anything before, and this is the first time I am actually dosing Ca and Mg into the system. From what I have read, those are the 2 main things people usually dose.

The very first need for dosing is alkalinity. Second is calcium.

Far distant third is magnesium, which many people never need to dose.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Any suggestions on how to measure the salinity if not via my refractometer? I just got this one as a hand-me-down. Maybe I need to get a new one? If not calibrated with rodi, how can I calibrate it so that it measures accurately?

There are many good ways to measure salinity. I prefer conductivity, but just checking your refractometer with a good standard solution is likely the easiest for you since you already have it.

You can buy one or make your own 35 ppt solution.

Both of these articles describe the DIY. The first one details why RO/DI is often not the best.

Reef Aquarium Salinity: Homemade Calibration Standards by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

Refractometers and Salinity Measurement - REEFEDITION

Title photo by R2R member Rskillz By Randy Holmes-Farley Salinity is one of the most important parameters measured in reef aquaria. It controls not only the salt balance between an organism and its surrounding environment, but also the levels of a host of ions Read more here...

www.reefedition.com

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Great read, very informative. I'll be checking my refractometer using this calibration method. So basically if I measure out using Morton iodized salt, the 3.65% concentration, it should read 1.026 on the refractometer right? And if it doesnt read correctly, instead of using the tiny screw to adjust the line, its better that I just make note of the difference and adjust the readings I get based on that difference? I hope I understood it correctly. The article also mentioned in passing something about self-correcting based on temperature, does that really matter when I'm using the refractometer?

It is best to adjust the screw so it reads 1.0264, but one could do what you suggest.