Newbie to dosing, where to start

[gray808]

I noticed a while back that my pH was consistently pretty low. My first try at fixing this was getting an IceCap CO2 scrubber, and running my skimmer intake thru it.
That didn't help a ton, so I tried dosing kalkwasser via my ATO. My ATO pump died shortly thereafter. Could have been the kalk, could have been coincidence, but I didn't like it messing with my ATO chamber, so I sucked it all out, cleaned it up, and got a new Neptune ATO that I like much better.

Anyway. I decided it was time to buy a doser, so I've picked up a 4-head Hygger doser, and a single (for now) acrylic chamber for it.

I figure now is a good time to ask about how to determine what dosage I need, as well as backstop and check to make sure I am not targeting incorrect numbers.

First:
What all do I need to check?
How often/day?
How many days running?

In order to figure out how much kalkwasser I should be dosing, or if I should be dosing something different, or something in addition?

Tank details: I have a Waterbox Marine 70.3, display volume of 43.8g, sump of 22.0g, and the overflow holds ~2.9g, for a total system volume of 68.7g.

Below is a table of my 2 most recent tests, A = tank water that hadn't been changed in a month (I try for every 2 weeks), right before I ran 60L change. B is about 2 days after that change, and wasn't a full suite of tests.

My test kits:
pH: Hanna digital
Salinity: Hanna digital
NH3: Red Sea & Nyos
NO2: Red Sea & Hanna ULR
NO3: Red Sea
Alkalinity:: Hanna dKH
Phosphorus: Hanna ULR
Phosphate: Hann ULR

	Salinity	Temp F	pH	dKH	NH3 ppm	NO2 ppm	NO2 ppb	NO3 ppm	Phosphorus ppb	Calcium	Phosphate	Mg
Target	1.025	72 - 80	8.1 - 8.4	8 - 12	0	<100	<100000	<5		350- 450	<1.0	1150-1350
A	1.026	78.3	7.6	7.8	0	5	105	5	133	210	0.49	1240
B	1.025	79.9	7.5	7.7	-	-	-	-	90	468	-	-

Are my targets super wrong for any of these?
My NH3/NO2/NO3 numbers have been rock solid for a long while, only minor spikes when I have a snail die somewhere (they are breeding like rabbits), and then REALLY minor.

I am worried about pH, dKH, and Ca, for the most part. I think Phosphorus might be a bit high?

Any input/advice appreciated!!

Any experience with https://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html ?

That looks fairly straight forward, I can input my values, my targets, choose which product (here is where I need the most advice), and then know how much I need to dose total, but how long do I spread that total dosing out?

--Gray

 

[v_buck]

following

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The 210 ppm calcium is a test error.

The first sign that you need to dose anything is alkalinity. If it is OK, you need not dose anything yet.

I'd stop measuring ammonia or nitrite.

The pH is low, but I'm not sure it is real. Did you do 2 point calibration on the Hanna and did it read the pH of the standards OK after calibration?

 

[Om84]

The 210 ppm calcium is a test error.

The first sign that you need to dose anything is alkalinity. If it is OK, you need not dose anything yet.

I'd stop measuring ammonia or nitrite.

The pH is low, but I'm not sure it is real. Did you do 2 point calibration on the Hanna and did it read the pH of the standards OK after calibration?

Randy,

Can you please explain why calcium that low is an error?

Thanks

EDIT:
Just realized the other calcium read. Nevermind. Following.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy,

Can you please explain why calcium that low is an error?

Thanks

Sure.. Three reasons, each of which is sufficient to prove it:

1. Calcium is NEVER that low in any reef tank (barring crazy alk overdose). Consumption stops before it gets that low.

2. A water change of 60 L (15.9 gallons) on a total water volume of 68.7 gallons could only have raised calcium from 210 to 468 ppm if the calcium in the new salt water was over 1300 ppm. Presumably it wasn't that high.

3. In order for calcium to drop from, say, 420 ppm to 210 ppm, requires consumption of nearly 30 dKH of alkalinity. There's isn't that much present in any mix, so unless large amounts of alkalinity have been added, calcium cannot fall that much.

 

[gray808]

I thought I had the 2 part pH solutions, but I must have used the last of it. Just ordered 500mL bottles of each.

But let's assume the measurements are correct (we can throw out the one Ca reading).
The same questions are what I am looking to have answered:

Do my target values make sense?
Before starting a dosing regimen, what should I be measuring, and how often, to get a baseline?
Once I get the baseline, how do I determine what needs dosed?
- How do I determine which product to use for Alkalinity? pH? Ca?
- How do I determine the amount of product to dose?
- How should I set the doser up to do that? If I know I need to dose X mL/day, is it better to do that in several smaller doses/day, or all at once?


--Gray

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I thought I had the 2 part pH solutions, but I must have used the last of it. Just ordered 500mL bottles of each.

But let's assume the measurements are correct (we can throw out the one Ca reading).
The same questions are what I am looking to have answered:

Do my target values make sense?
Before starting a dosing regimen, what should I be measuring, and how often, to get a baseline?
Once I get the baseline, how do I determine what needs dosed?
- How do I determine which product to use for Alkalinity? pH? Ca?
- How do I determine the amount of product to dose?
- How should I set the doser up to do that? If I know I need to dose X mL/day, is it better to do that in several smaller doses/day, or all at once?


--Gray

IMO, you can reasonably target any alk level from 7-11 dKH, and your measured values are fine, and suggest you do not need to dose anything.

The ocean is less than 7 dKH, so to say 8 dKH is a lower limit is not, IMO, reasonable.

Just keep[ watching the alk and if it gets down to 7 dKH, I'd dose.

That said, if you want alk higher (anything up to 11 dKH, IMO), dose both parts of a good, balanced two part supplement to attain it (over time, no more than 0,.5 dKH per day increase).

I would not try to set up a doser at the moment.

 

[gray808]

But let's assume the measurements are correct (we can throw out the one Ca reading).
The same questions are what I am looking to have answered:

Do my target values make sense?
Before starting a dosing regimen, what should I be measuring, and how often, to get a baseline?
Once I get the baseline, how do I determine what needs dosed?
- How do I determine which product to use for Alkalinity? pH? Ca?
- How do I determine the amount of product to dose?
- How should I set the doser up to do that? If I know I need to dose X mL/day, is it better to do that in several smaller doses/day, or all at once?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I think I'm beating a dead horse...

Measure alkalinity. If it has not dropped, there's no need to measure calcium or magnesium. They cannot drop without consuming alkalinity. Nothing else is critical to measure, although nitrate and phosphate are interesting.

I recommended using a two part when alk drops, but if you want a rundown on most of the methods available and how to use them, this has a lot more:

The Many Methods for Supplementing Calcium and Alkalinity - REEFEDITION

There is no aspect of reef aquarium chemistry more important than calcium and alkalinity. Many of my previous articles have described various aspects of these systems in detail. In reading those articles, aquarists will note one pervasive theme: that maintaining appropriate levels of each are...

www.reefedition.com

 

[gray808]

You are beating the same horse you always beat, and I had hopes anyone but you would answer.

I asked specific questions, looking for specific answers. You responded by implying the measurements were wrong, that the Alk range should really be a whole point lower than basically everything I've ever read said it should be, and still didn't actually give a detailed answer.

--Gray

 

[Moderno182]

Other thing that is high it’s your phosphate, 0.49 is high! It will not kill anything! But algae can be trouble! A target for phosphate is below 0.1! Most of the reefers like to keep at 0.03!!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You are beating the same horse you always beat, and I had hopes anyone but you would answer.

I asked specific questions, looking for specific answers. You responded by implying the measurements were wrong, that the Alk range should really be a whole point lower than basically everything I've ever read said it should be, and still didn't actually give a detailed answer.

--Gray

As the Rolling Stones sang...you don't always get what you want, you get what you need.

Unfortunately, as the Reef Chemistry expert who runs this forum, and has run this or other reef chemistry forums for more than 20 years, and answered more than a hundred thousand similar questions, I often have to redirect people away from what they actually asked to what they actually need to learn. And sometimes they do not like it.

You will not find anyone who disagrees with me that alkalinity is the most important thing to measure, and that if water changes alone maintain it, you do not need to be dosing alkalinity, calcium, or magnesium.

Thus, there is no specific product dosing guideline needed.

But I did tell you what to do if you want alkalinity higher. Use a two part system (any brand works, but my DIY that BRS uses works fine).

Then use this calculator to see how much is needed to boost the alk to your target, and add the same amount of the calcium part (assuming it is a 1:1 dosing product):

Reef Chemistry Calculator

I also told you to not dose it up more than 0.5 dKH per day.

I'm not sure what else I can possibly say without knowing what product you want to use. My DIY is perfectly fine. So are other brands. ESV is a great commercial brand for a two part.

As to telling you the 210 ppm calcium is incorrect, that's likely the MOST important advice I gave. 'Correcting" water parameters that are test error is a bigger problem than you might expect. I've done it myself. Fixing a nonproblem can cause a hard to fix real problem.

 

[jcosta98]

As the Rolling Stones sang...you don't always get what you want, you get what you need.

Unfortunately, as the Reef Chemistry expert who runs this forum, and has run this or other reef chemistry forums for more than 20 years, and answered more than a hundred thousand similar questions, I often have to redirect people away from what they actually asked to what they actually need to learn. And sometimes they do not like it.

You will not find anyone who disagrees with me that alkalinity is the most important thing to measure, and that if water changes alone maintain it, you do not need to be dosing alkalinity, calcium, or magnesium.

Thus, there is no specific product dosing guideline needed.

But I did tell you what to do if you want alkalinity higher. Use a two part system (any brand works, but my DIY that BRs sues works fine).

Then use this calculator to see how much is needed to boost the alk to your target, and add the same amount of the calcium part (assuming it is a 1:1 dosing product):

Reef Chemistry Calculator

I also told you to not dose it up more than 0.5 dKH per day.

I'm not sure what else I can possibly say without knowing what product you want to use. My DIY is perfectly fine. So are other brands. ESV is a great commercial brand for a two part.

As to telling you the 210 ppm calcium is incorrect, that's likely the MOST important advice I gave. 'Correcting" water parameters that are test error is a bigger problem than you might expect. I've done it myself. Fixing a nonproblem can cause a hard to fix real problem.

This