Nipped Fins on Lion

Averhoeven · Jun 3, 2020

I picked up a juvenile radiata lion on Saturday who has been in QT since. The only other fish in there is a blue streak cleaner wrasse. I came down this afternoon and noticed that his tail is a nipped up. It wasn't like that yesterday afternoon.
I picked the wrasse as I figured that would be one of the few small fish he probably wouldn't eat and because I know the radiata are sensitive and I thought having his own nurse may be helpful? I've been feeding the wrasse newly hatched baby brine and the lion has had 2 rosies (I know, but the lfs around me are all out of ghost shrimp, so goes the times). The rest of the QT is a pvc pipe, marine pure balls and a koralia powerhead.
I couldn't imagine the cleaner nipping, but there's nothing else in there to do that. I double checked, the mouth position looks like a true cleaner and not the false. However it was chasing him around and looked like nipping at him. So I moved the wrasse to a different tank.
Other fish I would consider prophylaxis, but I know meds in general are discouraged with lions. I literally just read @lion king statement about them. So should I just observe and cross my fingers? I've got plenty of meds on hand since I QT all my fish in my reef as part of my routine, so can respond quickly if I notice anything taking a turn. Any other suggestions/thoughts? Does anyone actually think the wrasse did it or am I delusional? Thanks

lion king · Jun 3, 2020

Radiatas are tough all around, so keep your fingers crossed. If you can't get ghosties I would recommend feeder guppies or an appropriate sized molly. If you have a lfs that does alot of fw, they usually have mollies in all sorts of sizes, because of their breeding habits.

Since he has eaten you do have time to observe, If you are really good at observing, pay really close attention for signs of internal parasites. Stringy poo hanging from his butt, or what may almost appear as plastic shavings around the tank. Some of the other signs can be tricky, but if he is eating you have time to observe. If you feel confident you could skip the general cure, but if not, to be safe the only treatment I would recommend is for internal parasites. General cure in the water column usually works well.

As far as the cleaner wrasse goes, one day he will likely be food. A pic of the tail would help because I agree it's not common that a cleaner wrasse would nip his tail. What does happen is they get torn fins from lack of proper nutrition and questionable water quality. So make sure your water is optimum, and try to get him ghosties, guppies, or mollies for food. You can keep them in a simple container to feed them some nutritious pellets before feeding them to the radiata.

Averhoeven · Jun 3, 2020

The long term plan was to have a shrimp tank and just have them be terrified of alien abductions. I can probably get mollies in the meantime instead. Didn't realize they were any more nutritious than comets and Rosies.
At this point I've seen and medicated fish through most common ailments (and have the meds from those experiences) around including internal parasites.
I'll double check the water parameters, but it's a 40 breeder with probably a 4" fish in it that I seeded with water and balls from my display. So I would think the bio filter should be capable.
I agree the wrasse seems unlikely, but at the same time his fins were changed in 24h. Unless he somehow got them into the Koralia?
I'll try to grab a pic in a bit.

lion king · Jun 3, 2020

Fins can literally tear overnight, I see it alot with lions. During transport they rarely get fed and can be in less than optimum water conditions. So the overall health has been depleted and torn fins is sometimes the result. As with most indicators it may not show up right away. Good water quality and good nutrition and he will heal right up.

Mollies are actually a brackish fish that even breeds in the wild in water with a sg of 1.017. They do contain some good fats that are beneficial to predatory marine fish. BUT that's not even the main point; rosies and comets contain a high amount of thiaminese, which binds vitamin B1. A vitamin B1 deficiency has proven to be deadly.

Averhoeven · Jun 4, 2020

He finally moved somewhere I could get a pic. There was a bit of ammonia when I checked, so clearly my plan of balls, water etc from an established tank didn't work as well as usual. I added the big ball of chaeto you see after. A little natural filtration.
Given that the wrasse was continuing to chase him around and pick at him, I'm guessing I should still keep them separated.
Even though they look it in the photo, the spots on his anal fin are just patterning and not ich etc.

lion king · Jun 4, 2020

I can't really see it clearly, but if the edges look jagged that's also a sign of mild bacteria erosion. This again is caused from just a lack of proper nutrition and water conditions. Get the ammonia down and fatten him up and hope for the best. I'm not sure why radiata's are so difficult, I lost my last one from what I suspected as cyanide.

Han · Jun 4, 2020

When i got my radiata he had a similar issue with his fins, and a couple of his spines were unsheathed. They healed up pretty quickly though, just watch for infection. Radiatas seem to be susceptible to infection, even in pristine water for some reason.