Nitrate and Phosphate too low??

[scott_r]

Set up a 45 gallon AIO 6 months ago and all my parameters are great except for Nitrates and Phosphates, they both test zero with my Salifert test kits. My tank looks great, coral growth is excellent but keep hearing zero is bad, bad, bad and you need some Nitrates and Phosphates in the tank. I have tried to get them up by feeding heavy but end up seeing algae appear all over and then gotta fight that off. What do some of you vets suggest I do? Do I buy some Brightwell products and dose for it? Leave it alone?

*Im sure this has been discussed alot, Im a newb and not sure how these forums work..if there are some good posts on this please link them for me. Cheers!!

 

[SPS2020]

Welcome to R2R!

It's a fine line to balance, especially if it is a newer tank. You should start building a good CUC if you haven't already. Tuxedo Urchins, cerith snails, turbo snails, etc. UV can help as well. Depending upon corals, you can limit the light schedule and make sure no sunlight is getting to the tank. Also, remember that if you have GHA and the test show zero PO4, it is hiding within the algae. You have to remove the algae. I'm walking that tightrope right now. Good luck and I'm sure others will chime in.

 

[ReefGeezer]

I would not dose nitrate and phosphate yet.

The Salifert kit is probably doesn't have the resolution needed for testing reef tank phosphate levels (0 to .1 ppm). Something like a Hanna ULR tester would be a good thing to have before making any decisions about raising phosphate. You could actually be driving phosphate too high by over feeding & just not know it. IMO, anything above 0 is good.

The Salifert kit is great for nitrate. Again, any reading above 0 is good.

As SPS2020 said, it is a balance thing. Try feeding more, but back off when you see algae start to grow. When increasing feedings, use foods with high protein and low phosphate content. Fresh and frozen foods are usually a better choice than dried stuff for this purpose. If nitrates start to rise but phosphate doesn't, carefully feed something with a higher phosphate content like "ReefRoids". Also consider if you have the enough nutrient producers (fish and etc.) in the tank to process the extra food you are feeding into ammonia and phosphate.

The smart move is to go slow here. It is easy to overshoot and cause a lot of problems in newer systems.

 

[Les Poissons]

I’m new at this as well, so this is partially my limited experience and what I’ve learned from others… I think you are right to be concerned about bottoming out NO3 and/or PO4. That seems to be a common factor with people who have had dino blooms, especially in new tanks that didn’t use real live rock (like mine). I had dinos show up when my PO4 bottomed out for a few weeks, but fortunately I was able to get them under control quickly by getting my parameters back into balance. I did that through dosing NeoPhos to keep my PO4 level at 1/100th of my NO3 - in my case PO4 of 0.1 and NO3 of 10. It’s also really important to build up your biodiversity in a new tank, which I’ve done through dosing pods, live phytoplankton, and beneficial bacteria. The combination off all of this seems to help keep nuisance algae in check as well. Need to be careful with the bacteria though as they can deplete NO3 and PO4. Again, not claiming to be an expert just sharing what I have experienced/learned. Hope it helps.

 

[Little c big D]

I recommend going to hanna foe phosphate. It will give you precise measurements

 

[jda]

Do not do anything until you have better tools and understanding.

Corals need nitrogen, not nitrate. If you are feeding your fish well, then your corals can get all of the nitrogen that they need from the ammonia/ammonium from the fish waste.

Salifert is not good enough to know if you really have any P, or not. Get a Hannah Ultra Low if you need to know. When you get it, if you have even 1-3 ppb of phosphate, then you are fine. You just need a slight trace and more does not do anything, even if the internet mob thinks that it does. If you are at zero with the hannah, then feed some more or you can add some phosphate to bring it up to where you get a reading.

As for fighting the algae, you need consumers. Snails of many types, urchins. I have residual nitrates of .1 and phosphates of 1-3 ppb and my tanks would be overcome with algae if not for the consumers. For a 45 gallon, 50 astreas, 50 ceriths, some nerites and other kinds would be a good place to start - people sometimes want to throw in 5 snails and then be unhappy that they did not do anything, but you need a good amount for them to actually do work. I talked about cleaners in post #76 of my re-build thread. There is some nuance to making sure that you get the right kind of cleaners and also that you keep the tank in the right place for them to thrive.

 

[SPS2020]

Always worth watching BRS tv:

 

[scott_r]

Thanks everyone.

Do not do anything until you have better tools and understanding.

Corals need nitrogen, not nitrate. If you are feeding your fish well, then your corals can get all of the nitrogen that they need from the ammonia/ammonium from the fish waste.

Salifert is not good enough to know if you really have any P, or not. Get a Hannah Ultra Low if you need to know. When you get it, if you have even 1-3 ppb of phosphate, then you are fine. You just need a slight trace and more does not do anything, even if the internet mob thinks that it does. If you are at zero with the hannah, then feed some more or you can add some phosphate to bring it up to where you get a reading.

As for fighting the algae, you need consumers. Snails of many types, urchins. I have residual nitrates of .1 and phosphates of 1-3 ppb and my tanks would be overcome with algae if not for the consumers. For a 45 gallon, 50 astreas, 50 ceriths, some nerites and other kinds would be a good place to start - people sometimes want to throw in 5 snails and then be unhappy that they did not do anything, but you need a good amount for them to actually do work. I talked about cleaners in post #76 of my re-build thread. There is some nuance to making sure that you get the right kind of cleaners and also that you keep the tank in the right place for them to thrive.

Haha...yeah I've got about 5 snails, didn't realize Id need that many ( 50) but will certainly up my game in that department. I've got 4 fish in the tank at the moment. 2 clowns, a royal gramma and orchid dotyback, would it be good to add a couple more or just stay with what i got?
Im thinking its time to get some decent test kits as well, I will be buying the Hanna's.

Cheers!!

 

[ReefGeezer]

Thanks everyone.

Haha...yeah I've got about 5 snails, didn't realize Id need that many ( 50) but will certainly up my game in that department. I've got 4 fish in the tank at the moment. 2 clowns, a royal gramma and orchid dotyback, would it be good to add a couple more or just stay with what i got?
Im thinking its time to get some decent test kits as well, I will be buying the Hanna's.

Cheers!!

More snails.... maybe an small Urchin... and more fish. Read up on snails. Some help with algae, some with waste. You need both.

 

[Lavey29]

Thanks everyone.

Haha...yeah I've got about 5 snails, didn't realize Id need that many ( 50) but will certainly up my game in that department. I've got 4 fish in the tank at the moment. 2 clowns, a royal gramma and orchid dotyback, would it be good to add a couple more or just stay with what i got?
Im thinking its time to get some decent test kits as well, I will be buying the Hanna's.

Cheers!!

Sounds like you are on the right path to success. Some good advise from the posters and you are right to monitor your nitrates and phosphate closely. Bottomed out numbers lead to bad things. I had to double dose neophos and neonitro for multiple weeks before I got measurable numbers. Cleaner crew can be added as needed. If you put to many in with not enough algae they die. Get a good diverse group of algae and sand diggers for detritus. I had a jungle of GHA in my tank and a couple urchins and 2 turbos wiped it out in 3 weeks. So you don't need a ton of inverts just a good mix so all areas of the tank get cleaned. More fish and feeding will help your numbers also as others mentioned.

 

[melonheadorion]

what i have learned, and if its wrong, please correct me, but there is always some sort of phosphate around. phosphate is created with waste, uneaten food, etc. whether it is detectable or not is obviously where youre at with it right now. for you, its not showing as detectable, and thats because its so low that your tester, you just dont see it. from the perspective of having 0 phosphate, yes it will lead to bad things. however, if you arent experiencing those bad things, youre probably in a good spot. you obviously have some phosphate in your tank, but its so low, that you just dont see it.

i agree with getting the hanna checker because the color coded kits are just too difficult. even with a nyos or salifert kit, you have to rely on color, and when the amount is so low, its impossible to see a difference. i have a nyos kit for it, and the best guess i can come up with on mine is that its somewhere between 0 and .02. this particular kit goes from 0 to .024, .050. .075, .1 and so on. the color difference between 0 and .05 or even .075 can be tricky, so if you want more accurate, and not just guessing a number, the hanna tester is the better way to go if you want to keep ultra low numbers. if you just want to keep it under .1 or whatever, then a color coded kit will probably do fine, but just remember that you have to rely on trying to match something thats really difficult

 

[paintman]

Don't listen to the people telling you to up your CUC! Your just wasting your money. I have spent thousand of dollars pumping CUC's into my 200 gallon only to watch them totally ignore all types of algae. The same can be said for cerain fish such as a fox face tangs and mollies. Total waste of time. I think most people recomend CUC's to people because that's what the overlords in the industry have led us to believe is a cure all so they can line their pockets. Just like them making you believe you have to buy a $120 bucket of salt that has Pro written on it..

 

[paintman]

Turkey baster, filter socks/roller mat, and alot of powerheads twice to three times a week is your friend.

 

[ReefGeezer]

Don't listen to the people telling you to up your CUC! Your just wasting your money. I have spent thousand of dollars pumping CUC's into my 200 gallon only to watch them totally ignore all types of algae. The same can be said for cerain fish such as a fox face tangs and mollies. Total waste of time. I think most people recomend CUC's to people because that's what the overlords in the industry have led us to believe is a cure all so they can line their pockets. Just like them making you believe you have to buy a $120 bucket of salt that has Pro written on it..

Turkey baster, filter socks/roller mat, and alot of powerheads twice to three times a week is your friend.

I'll agree that blasting detritus and any Algae, Cyano, or etc. that might pop up is a great thing. I use a Turkey Baster, a denture brush, and even small bottle brushes weekly-ish just prior to water changes.
I disagree somewhat concerning clean up crews. I'll agree that they will not solve a problem that is already out of hand, but they do serve a purpose. They provide another nutrient pathway in the system. The key is not to think of nutrient reduction as one linear path, but as a system of intertwined pathways that manage nutrients in all forms that exist from input of food through export of the resulting nutrients in one form or another.

 

[Koh23]

Maybe its worth mentioning, way back, i compared hana tester with jbl po4 test kit, and i conclude that jbl is actually good and better than salifert.....

If jbl test shows <0.1 (aka no color change), for exapmle, hanna always confirms that....

But again, all test measure free floating values, if you have algae, glass needs to be cleaned often, then you have no3 and po4....

How much? Really dont matter if, like u say, all corals thrive...

Do exactly what u did before u thinked "hey i have low nutrients, this is bad"....

 

[Reef Jockey]

Always worth watching BRS tv:

very helpful videos

Thanks

 

[scott_r]

Really dont matter if, like u say, all corals thrive...

Do exactly what u did before u thinked "hey i have low nutrients, this is bad"....

Everything seems to happy and thriving.. but just seem to have slight issue with algae, Its not a jungle or anything but it does have a presence . I start reading on controlling algae and then go down low nutrient rabbit hole lol. That and for some odd reason I quite enjoy doing tests and then cant pick up any N03 or P04 on my test kits, then get reading why. Cheers!!

 

[Koh23]

Same here....

Worried about every little speck of possible algae.... Then i got s.fasciatus, big one.....

Now, he is fatter and bigger everyday, and i dont worry anymore....