Nitrate/Phosphate Imbalance

[PSXerholic]

Going to hijack this thread a little. Randey Holmes-Farley or anyone else with like experience. I have been vinegar dosing for over 2 years. I have great growth and my oranges and green and purple colors are good. Not really pale at all. By pinks and reds have pretty much gone and stayed tan/brown. My last few ICP test come back normal for trace elements. I do dose iodine, strontium and Kaladium to keep those normal. My Nitrates have been running 1 on various tests and phosphates vary .00-.05. Usually around .02 for the most part. I stopped dosing any vinegar for a couple days to try and raise nitrates up a bit. My goal would be 5. Is there any harm in stopping vinegar cold turkey?? I have seen skimmate drop off but no movement in nitrate or phosphates. Not wanting a huge crash all the sudden due to stopping vinegar.

I personally would reduce the vinegar instead of stopping it. As Randy mentioned the bacteria will reduce their population one or the other way.
I found it's easier to adjust carb dosing down and observe where Nutrients ending up at, instead of stopping it and basically figure out again how much to dose daily to maintain a desired nutrient level.

What I've done also is to increase No3 and to avoid dosing nitrates, is to add filter fleece into the socks! Those are No3 factories after a while and lift up nitrates too.
It's a bit tricky to find the best balance of Po4 and No3 reduction with your carb source.
Vinegar I feel the Po4 consumption is better than with certain other carb sources.
Maybe that is another option you haven't thought about.

 

[rob safron]

Thanks Randey. After some thought I may keep a low dose going and start adding a little stump remover. Things are growing well. Last couple ICP test showed Nitrate at 0.01, my kit shows at 1.0 and do have minor cyno that won’t go away. My goal would be nitrates around 2.

 

[rob safron]

Never heard of filter fleece, I’ll look into that. I feed as heavy as I without change. PO2 remains around .02-.04 so higher than nitrate which is part of the cyno problem. Again not bad case but patches here and there that won’t go away and some pale color. I did adjust my radions about to see if that helps the pinks and reds.

 

[SaracensRugby]

Hypothetical question relative to this thread: if a refugium that is working at peak capacity, pulling phosphates and nitrates out of the system so efficiently that your nitrates/phosphates are undetectable by hobby testing kits, would one then need to dose nitrates to get detectable levels for the betterment of the tank?

My previous 2 year old tank never had detectable amounts of either, and I am thinking that could have been detrimental to my tank after reading this entire thread.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hypothetical question relative to this thread: if a refugium that is working at peak capacity, pulling phosphates and nitrates out of the system so efficiently that your nitrates/phosphates are undetectable by hobby testing kits, would one then need to dose nitrates to get detectable levels for the betterment of the tank?

My previous 2 year old tank never had detectable amounts of either, and I am thinking that could have been detrimental to my tank after reading this entire thread.

That's a complex question, which, IMO, boils down to:

"Can a refugium ever cause nitrate or phosphate to be too low for optimal health of a ref aquarium?"

IMO, the answer is certainly yes for the general case of whether it "can". Whether it actually does in any specific case will depend on many factors. And, of course, the refugium is not the only nutrient uptake/export method.

I had large refugia on my system and never had nutrients too low to detect, but I never collected any detritus and let it accumulate as a mud.

That all said, the exact reasons may not matter. If nutrients are too low to detect, it is certainly worthwhile raising them a bit and seeing how the tank responds.

 

[tenurepro]

Hi All, while we are on the topic, is possible to premix KNO3 and seachem flourish phosphorus ? If so, it should be technically be possible to dose a cocktail that is near the redfield ratio of 14:1 n

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hi All, while we are on the topic, is possible to premix KNO3 and seachem flourish phosphorus ? If so, it should be technically be possible to dose a cocktail that is near the redfield ratio of 14:1 n

There’s no reason to assume that a Redfield ratio is what is needed to be dosed to any given aquarium, since the consumption often does not follow that ratio (due, for example, to denitrification which consumes nitrate and not phosphate) but you can mix most nitrate and phosphate supplements, except for calcium nitrate.

 

[rob safron]

I mixed my stump remover per Randy Holmes-Farley recipe but it is taking much more solution to raise Nitrate than I expected. Can I mix the solution stronger or will it not mix well?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I mixed my stump remover per Randy Holmes-Farley recipe but it is taking much more solution to raise Nitrate than I expected. Can I mix the solution stronger or will it not mix well?

Assuming it is sodium or potassium nitrate, you can make either one of those very concentrated, if you want.

 

[rob safron]

Thanks Randey. Yes. Right now it’s stump remover from Home Depot. I did just order sodium nitrate off Amazon. Seems healthier than using stump remover.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks Randey. Yes. Right now it’s stump remover from Home Depot. I did just order sodium nitrate off Amazon. Seems healthier than using stump remover.

It at least has more guaranteed quality control.