Nitrate/Phosphate Imbalance

[PSXerholic]

Yes, but what constitutes a "Detectable Phosphate" range versus a "High Phosphate" range? Is my 0.1ppm phosphate reading considered just detectable or high?

Lol, Ok that's what you mean!

When I talk about "detectable" Nutrients, then I mean that these levels are very low, almost zero, but still detectable.

With the test equipment used very detailed in the Reef Guide for example, you may noticed the note that the 0-5ppb reading on the ULR checker is within the tolerance of reading (Checker accuracy), means that range is low and maybe 0, but still detectable.

As described in the Reef Guide, the easiest way is to establish a certain PO4 level since Po4 can be kept almost stable so you will only need to adjust the No3 via dosing if needed in line with the Red Field ratio table. I have added more precise tables in the Guide as the ones that are floating in the internet for ease of use.

For the best maintenance I have some Nutrient level recommendations in the Guide to avoid chasing numbers daily for normal folks that won't have the time or budget for daily monitoring, so a good range is between 0.06-0.08 on Po4, however with some caveats you can easily run up to 0.15-0.2 Po4 with still good results with no Algae or Cyano as long the RF ratio is maintained.
Higher Po4 just limits a few fancy color effects in most common tank systems, which the SPS lounge doesn't like ;-)

-Andre

 

[PSXerholic]

I always recommend to dial the tank in such a way to maintain a certain Po4 level/range, and then the No3 levels are mostly maintained by dosing reasonable amounts of solution (as long the Nitrogen cycle is not Superboosted with Ammonia or something).

-Andre

 

[BoneXriffic]

Just to offer a different opinion than Dr Randy. Iron may be beneficial to algae like chaeto if your truly depleted. I doubt it! Reducing your Po4 will increase coloration in sps corals so the use of GFO or HC GFO is the way to go!!! Not sure why Dr R would suggest a specific product like chemipure (whats in it R?) which is not a pure GFO product? Just ME opinion here, this is a place to discuss and share opinions without getting upset!! Your problem if you are truly at zero nitrates is a nitrate starved system. The addition of a blended nitrate product of high quality (low impurities) will help your system. Why? Let ME try! If your at zero NO3 your corals cant eat!! For a few months you said? They need significantly more No3 than Po4 explains Dr Redfield and Dr R. Much of your bacteria, algae, pods. and other beneficial microbials all need No3 to grow and multiply, just like your corals. If they are starved they deplete in quantity or even disappear; hence, they cant perform their beneficial role. That of consuming TONs of NO3 and a little Po4. Meaning if you raise your No3 to detectable levels, give bacteria some time to grow and multiply, you will then see a reduction on PO4 if you are supplementing No3. You described paleness in corals? This is a clear symptom of No3 deprivation, not browning of corals which is the result we get from high Po4. This is not much different than a carbon deprived system and is why some dose vinegar,vodka,sugar, biopellets, etc to increase bacteria population. Problem is they consume much more no3 than Po4? So add No3 and they will reduce po4. Oh--Did you say "I will just add a ton of food to increase No3"? Sound logical but....... Food will increase Po4 faster than No3. Read Dr R's article on the make up of fish food. So whats the risk of adding No3? First its adding to fast. The bacteria needs to grow over weeks not hours! Take it increases slow. Second risk is totally stopping after dosing for some time. This leads to quick deprivation and paleness in sps. Lastly is the risk of using a low quality product that is full of toxic trace metals. Use a product designed for aquariums! Not stumps and carrots in the garden.

PS: My concern is your not truly at zero NO3? I make this assumption because if you were at zero No3 you would not have excessive algae growth? They would also starve not proliferate?

Is this really the guy who owns the "me" buisness..? Lol.

 

[Ashish Patel]

I read briefly and use chemi-pure for years. I never use the recommended dose bc it's overkill for a reef tank. If your changing out every month I am assuming you use the recommend dose of 1 11 Oz unit per 50gallons?.

Last week I removed my chemi-pure elite as along with refugium my nutrients where being stripped to the point of paling colors. I have since replaced it with 1 regular bag of 11 Oz chemi pure carbon for 125g system. I won't change it for at least 2 months.

Stay away from the chemi pure elite if your using a fuge and have strong nutrients export and skimming. It works too well and I foolishly thought it was just some GFO in the carbon that wouldn't strip the nutrients out.

Hair algae will grow some you just need few fish and clean up that feeds on it. Also try running your fuge 24 hr and get a good led 5000k light bulb. My cheato fills up fast

Here's my fuge and nutrient free tank that I'm now overfeeding [emoji3]

 

[marke]

Is this really the guy who owns the "me" buisness..? Lol.

Thanks for the compliment?

 

[reefguyty]

My tank shows readings of 0 nitrates and 0 phosphates and I have similar issues haha.

I have started dosing nitrates with good results (not sure if this would help your situation).

 

[Ashish Patel]

My tank shows readings of 0 nitrates and 0 phosphates and I have similar issues haha.

I have started dosing nitrates with good results (not sure if this would help your situation).

Yeah,, I really believe that as your tank matures you end up with more nutrients naturally, More gunk buildup behind and within the rockwork, sand, fish and coral growth, etc. I rather dial down my nutrient export until the equilibrium is met to reach about 5 -10ppm on nitrates. If I cant add nutrients by reducing nutrient exports and overfeeding then Id consider adding chemicals, however at that point something would be unbalanced... Just my way of looking at it. The name of the game is finding ideal Nutrient export not stripping the nutrients - guilty of doing this! lol

 

[reefguyty]

Yeah,, I really believe that as your tank matures you end up with more nutrients naturally, More gunk buildup behind and within the rockwork, sand, fish and coral growth, etc. I rather dial down my nutrient export until the equilibrium is met to reach about 5 -10ppm on nitrates. If I cant add nutrients by reducing nutrient exports and overfeeding then Id consider adding chemicals, however at that point something would be unbalanced... Just my way of looking at it. The name of the game is finding ideal Nutrient export not stripping the nutrients - guilty of doing this! lol

I feel like this is the case for most people. However I have never had any of my tanks's nitrates go above 0 if I don't dump nitrates in there. I have no idea why. I won't complain though I know people struggle with too much nitrates.

I do have my fair share of algae issues though!!

 

[domination2580]

My trates are at 20 and phosphates are .03...any idea how to drop nitrates? I have some algae issues as well.

 

[Ashish Patel]

I feel like this is the case for most people. However I have never had any of my tanks's nitrates go above 0 if I don't dump nitrates in there. I have no idea why. I won't complain though I know people struggle with too much nitrates.

I do have my fair share of algae issues though!!

I've always had undetectable nitrates unless I slacked off on general husbandry. So its a constant challenge especially being responsible not to overstock, overfeed, etc. First time using a refugium with a strong LED Light - chaeto is growing like weeds and algae in the tank is pretty much non-existent.

 

[Ashish Patel]

My tank shows readings of 0 nitrates and 0 phosphates and I have similar issues haha.

I have started dosing nitrates with good results (not sure if this would help your situation).

I am considering dosing nitrates now - I don't believe my tank will ever have detectable nitrates.. If its a daily dosing thing I rather not do it but if I can dose weekly that would be ideal.. please share your experience

 

[Trevor40]

Great thread. Lots of valuable information.

 

[goldenhurricane2]

Great thread. Lots of valuable information.

Luckily I was finally able to get it under control - everything is thriving now.

 

[PSXerholic]

Luckily I was finally able to get it under control - everything is thriving now.

So just be prepared then for the next battle ;-)
Corals will consume your trace elements next, so keep up with those.

Glad you managed the challenge !!!

 

[goldenhurricane2]

So just be prepared then for the next battle ;-)
Corals will consume your trace elements next, so keep up with those.

Glad you managed the challenge !!!

Haha that challenge emerged about 2 months ago - I was able to get that all ironed out as well. 15ml of Ca and Alk per day and we're good to go!

 

[rob safron]

Going to hijack this thread a little. Randey Holmes-Farley or anyone else with like experience. I have been vinegar dosing for over 2 years. I have great growth and my oranges and green and purple colors are good. Not really pale at all. By pinks and reds have pretty much gone and stayed tan/brown. My last few ICP test come back normal for trace elements. I do dose iodine, strontium and Kaladium to keep those normal. My Nitrates have been running 1 on various tests and phosphates vary .00-.05. Usually around .02 for the most part. I stopped dosing any vinegar for a couple days to try and raise nitrates up a bit. My goal would be 5. Is there any harm in stopping vinegar cold turkey?? I have seen skimmate drop off but no movement in nitrate or phosphates. Not wanting a huge crash all the sudden due to stopping vinegar.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

IMO, stopping cold turkey is fine. The bacteria will slowly dwindle.

 

[rob safron]

Ok. Will this just thrust nitrates way the other direction? Would it be better to just use a lower dosage and over time nitrate will raise a bit?

 

[Big E]

Ok. Will this just thrust nitrates way the other direction? Would it be better to just use a lower dosage and over time nitrate will raise a bit?

You're not going to know till you do it. Right now you haven't seen a change because algae & the corals mainly will catch up the extra nutrients short term. It may take 3-4 weeks before you see a change in test numbers.

On your colors................if you're not happy with your reds and pinks, you need to focus on your lighting. Nutrient levels effect the deepness or pastel levels of the corals but aren't going to effect specific colors.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ok. Will this just thrust nitrates way the other direction? Would it be better to just use a lower dosage and over time nitrate will raise a bit?

I can’t say how much and how fast it will change nitrate. You can always restart, or reduce more slowly if it worries you.