Nitrates in an nitrogen cycle.

[Christoball]

Hei!

I’m currently cycling my second tank with a different method then first time (KZ)

I have been following dr.tims instructions as to cycle with their products as i read alot of good things about it.

But as you may know, it never says to measure no3 only no2/nh3/ph and it says you should add fish on day 9 of the cycle.

Funny thing is i measured no3. And its of the charts and as far as i know, its toxic for fish.

I ball park it to around 200ppm measured with nyos test kit and it only goes ro 160ppm. With salifert i interpret it as twice as dark color as the max 100ppm it can provide.

So, my question is, as i dont think my cycle is finished: will nitrates lower to a more acceptable level by it self? Or what is the correct aproach in my case? I do not want the now «established» bacteria to die off and screw up my cycle.

Additional info: I have a skimmer as filtration and 1kg of maxspect bio-spheres from mo other tank.

Please help me understand this cycle. As i originally tought ammonia turned into nitrite, and nitrite turned into nitrate. And nitrated would be handle by waterchanges in the early life of a reef tank.

Cheers.

 

[Garf]

You can’t measure nitrate, when nitrite is present, it screws up the results, as you’ve proven.

 

[Van Eternal]

Hi,
I'm cycling my tank the same way as you using dr tims. What I noticed during my cycle (im using live sand and dry rock). I had problems when it came to reducing ammonia. In the first day I added 2ppm ammonia and after 48 hours it dropped to 0.8 and nitrites slightly went up to around 0.1 ppm. Therefore, I dosed another 2ppm and thats when i 'stalled my cycle' it took 11 days for the ammonia to drop down to 0.2 (btw I'm testing total ammonia nh3 +nh4, not nh3 only) but now I'm having high nitrites and nitrates, nitrites at around 5-6 ppm at the moment and nitrates similarly to you off the charts, but could be caused by false reading caused by nitrites. Now my concern is, if the total ammonia drops to 0, will I need to feed the nitrifying bacteria with more ammonia to keep it alive even though I have nitrites present? as adding more ammonia will definitely increase my nitrites even further.

 

[Aqua Man]

will nitrates lower to a more acceptable level by it self?

As i originally tought ammonia turned into nitrite, and nitrite turned into nitrate. And nitrated would be handle by waterchanges in the early life of a reef tank.

You got it. Now just do a large water change.

@Van Eternal bacteria are very resilient. Without food they just go dormant.

 

[Screwgunner]

If your bio balls came from your other tank why are you wasting your money on Dr. Tims. Your bio balls from you other tank is all you need .

 

[Screwgunner]

Large water change +1

 

[Jeffcb]

If Ammonia is down to 0 and you have N03. Done. No need to measure N02 .

Large water change now.

 

[Screwgunner]

That is the problem with using ammonia . The end product is always nitrates so the more ammonia the more nitrates

 

[Azedenkae]

Hei!

I’m currently cycling my second tank with a different method then first time (KZ)

I have been following dr.tims instructions as to cycle with their products as i read alot of good things about it.

But as you may know, it never says to measure no3 only no2/nh3/ph and it says you should add fish on day 9 of the cycle.

Funny thing is i measured no3. And its of the charts and as far as i know, its toxic for fish.

I ball park it to around 200ppm measured with nyos test kit and it only goes ro 160ppm. With salifert i interpret it as twice as dark color as the max 100ppm it can provide.

So, my question is, as i dont think my cycle is finished: will nitrates lower to a more acceptable level by it self? Or what is the correct aproach in my case? I do not want the now «established» bacteria to die off and screw up my cycle.

Additional info: I have a skimmer as filtration and 1kg of maxspect bio-spheres from mo other tank.

Please help me understand this cycle. As i originally tought ammonia turned into nitrite, and nitrite turned into nitrate. And nitrated would be handle by waterchanges in the early life of a reef tank.

Cheers.

So a few things. Nitrite can affect nitrate readings, though I am unsure which of your tests and by how much. Either way, if you measure 0.01 nitrite, I highly doubt that would actually affect the nitrate tests so much to read so high.

With that said, it seems to also be wayy too high. How much ammonia total did you add, following Dr. Tim's instructions?

Not how much you were supposed to add, but how much ammonia did you actually measure you added? From that it is possible to calculate a max ballpark amount of nitrate that should be produced from nitrification of the ammonia you added, and see if your nitrate value measured is reasonable or not.

 

[Christoball]

If i do remember corectly i added 4ml of dr tims ammonia 3 times. Would you please help me with the calculations?

 

[Christoball]

So by the looks of it, large waterchange is the way to go. Then i’ll transfer my two clowns and enjoy my new tank.

 

[Christoball]

So a few things. Nitrite can affect nitrate readings, though I am unsure which of your tests and by how much. Either way, if you measure 0.01 nitrite, I highly doubt that would actually affect the nitrate tests so much to read so high.

With that said, it seems to also be wayy too high. How much ammonia total did you add, following Dr. Tim's instructions?

Not how much you were supposed to add, but how much ammonia did you actually measure you added? From that it is possible to calculate a max ballpark amount of nitrate that should be produced from nitrification of the ammonia you added, and see if your nitrate value measured is reasonable or not.

If i do remember corectly i added 4ml of dr tims ammonia 3 times. Would you please help me with the calculations?

 

[Garf]

So by the looks of it, large waterchange is the way to go. Then i’ll transfer my two clowns and enjoy my new tank.

Yes, it’s ready.

 

[Christoball]

So a few things. Nitrite can affect nitrate readings, though I am unsure which of your tests and by how much. Either way, if you measure 0.01 nitrite, I highly doubt that would actually affect the nitrate tests so much to read so high.

With that said, it seems to also be wayy too high. How much ammonia total did you add, following Dr. Tim's instructions?

Not how much you were supposed to add, but how much ammonia did you actually measure you added? From that it is possible to calculate a max ballpark amount of nitrate that should be produced from nitrification of the ammonia you added, and see if your nitrate value measured is reasonable or not.

Also, dr tim says 4 drops per gallon or 1 drop per litre. My total volume is 301l i estimated the water volume to be at around 280l. So i added 280drops three times. 4ml each time. 12ml in total

 

[Screwgunner]

The cycle is to get bacteria to a level to house a couple fish . You did that when you put bio balls in from your other tank . They had bacteria on them already . Now you have bacteria up the wazoo
Once you get the nitrates down via water change . If you have alot of live rock it will proccess some nitrates but no way 200 ppm . The bacteria inside the live rock is anaerobic no oxygen it turns nitrates into nitrogen gas . That is why it is so important to have good water movement on top of your water . To get rid of gasses and put oxygen back in.

 

[Christoball]

The cycle is to get bacteria to a level to house a couple fish . You did that when you put bio balls in from your other tank . They had bacteria on them already . Now you have bacteria up the wazoo
Once you get the nitrates down via water change . If you have alot of live rock it will proccess some nitrates but no way 200 ppm . The bacteria inside the live rock is anaerobic no oxygen it turns nitrates into nitrogen gas . That is why it is so important to have good water movement on top of your water . To get rid of gasses and put oxygen back in.

My thought was that the bio balls would be able to jumpstart and help the newly added bacteria. Since its only 1kg i didnt think it was enough alone.

 

[Azedenkae]

Also, dr tim says 4 drops per gallon or 1 drop per litre. My total volume is 301l i estimated the water volume to be at around 280l. So i added 280drops three times. 4ml each time. 12ml in total

That sounds about right. So 6ppm ammonia total. That should convert to about 22ppm nitrate if my calculations are correct. But let's say something is wrong and say it is double the amount. Just hypothetically.

Let say each 1ppm nitrite causes a false 100ppm nitrate reading. Well with 0.01ppm nitrite, you'd be looking at 1ppm nitrate that is a false reading. Even if it was ten times higher, that's be 10ppm.

Added together, that is still far less than both the readings you got. So either both of the tests read incorrectly, or something went very wrong. Honestly like with everyone else I am more inclined to think the former and just be done with it. But even if that was the case and it is a falsely high reading, you'd still want to investigate what caused the wrong readings anyways.

 

[Christoball]

That sounds about right. So 6ppm ammonia total. That should convert to about 22ppm nitrate if my calculations are correct. But let's say something is wrong and say it is double the amount. Just hypothetically.

Let say each 1ppm nitrite causes a false 100ppm nitrate reading. Well with 0.01ppm nitrite, you'd be looking at 1ppm nitrate that is a false reading. Even if it was ten times higher, that's be 10ppm.

Added together, that is still far less than both the readings you got. So either both of the tests read incorrectly, or something went very wrong. Honestly like with everyone else I am more inclined to think the former and just be done with it. But even if that was the case and it is a falsely high reading, you'd still want to investigate what caused the wrong readings anyways.

Thank your for a very good answer! Appreciate that. I’m mixing up a new batch of saltwater right now. And as far as investigating the cause. I wouldent even know where to begin. I can tell you the nyos test i also use on my other tank, and i really do trust the readings it gives on that tank.

 

[Azedenkae]

Thank your for a very good answer! Appreciate that. I’m mixing up a new batch of saltwater right now. And as far as investigating the cause. I wouldent even know where to begin. I can tell you the nyos test i also use on my other tank, and i really do trust the readings it gives on that tank.

You can try reading your water source (rodi or whatever it is) and see what reading you get. If it reads 0 or close (it should), then yeah that is a good thing. You can also do serial dilutions of the tank water and fresh water to see if the readings seem to be reasonable.

If you can trust the Nyos then yeah, a water change and then maybe monitoring to see if nitrates increase significantly even if nothing else is done. That would be a potential cause for concern.

 

[Christoball]

You can try reading your water source (rodi or whatever it is) and see what reading you get. If it reads 0 or close (it should), then yeah that is a good thing. You can also do serial dilutions of the tank water and fresh water to see if the readings seem to be reasonable.

I just notised that my sponge filter was all clogged up from dry rock dust and other particles. Maybe this could be the culprit of the high reading