Nitrates in QT - what can I do?

[BummersReef]

so I am battling nitrates in our QT and I need some suggestions on things to do aside from daily water changes (pain in the bottom).
QT is 10 gallons, first set up about 5 weeks ago (maybe longer, can't remember). HOB filter with one of those blue carbon pads that pop right in. One little piece of live rock in there too. some plastic PVC for hiddie holes. heater, thermometer, air stone and regular lights. First one in was a chalk bass for a few weeks, he was fine and we just watched him (no medications), QT water levels were all fine while he was in there (never more than a trace of nitrates). Finally put chalk bass in DT (he's fine) and let QT just run empty for a week or so. Before putting in next fish to QT took QT water sample into LFS and nitrates were 100!! (had been only trace nitrates the whole time chalk bass was in there). Obviously did not put a fish in QT with 100 nitrates. Did almost 75% water change, replaced carbon filter pad with a new one, tested at home .... nitrates down to about 10. waited another week or so days, tested at LFS, nitrates ZERO and all other parameters in QT were super awesome (happy dance). Got 5 small blue green chromis and put them in QT. Tested nitrates on second day, they are back up to at least 25. Did 30% water change, nitrates still around 25. Another 30% water change the next day, still around 25, maybe even a wee bit higher. That was yesterday.
What can I do to get these down below 25 consistently aside from big water changes every day? What am I missing? What is my newbie mind not comprehending? there has to be something ....
thanks ahead of time for the help
btw have ammonia badge in QT and it has never read any ammonia. (we sucked out the poo every other day when fish was in there) When fish was in there, we also tested ammonia every day, zero.

 

[mcarroll]

Was it the same LFS running the same test kit, or is it possible the old readings were bogus? High nitrates don't always bother fish, especially in the short term. They are usually just an algae problem.

2¢

 

[alyee5]

What are your nitrite readings?

 

[Brew12]

I'm a noob so take it for what its worth.

Do you have enough surface area in that small piece of live rock to house enough bacteria to process the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate for your bio load? If not maybe a sponge or a little more live rock would help.

EDIT: Or course as soon as I typed this I thought to myself that if you are making it through the ammonia/nitrite stage to get the nitrate that must not be the problem....

 

[cromag27]

It's possible the tank never properly cycled. you didn't say anything about testing for ammonia and nitrites after you set it up. High nitrates can cause issues with some fish but we're usually talking in the 150pp+ range, but still, less is better.

I think the bioload was too much for this small tank, especially if it didn't properly cycle. Large water changes are your friend.

 

[BummersReef]

Was it the same LFS running the same test kit, or is it possible the old readings were bogus? High nitrates don't always bother fish, especially in the short term. They are usually just an algae problem.

2¢

Same extremely reliable LFS doing all testing outside in home tests

 

[BummersReef]

What are your nitrite readings?

Nitrites have been zero for at least the past two months. We never had another more than "trace" nitrite in DT, but we didn't bother to test at all the first 3 weeks or so. But we don't test nitrite at home, only at LFS (same LFS every time) and we have them test all regular levels at least once a week. Since setting up the QT, all LFS tests showed zero on nitrite in QT every time.

 

[BummersReef]

I'm a noob so take it for what its worth.

Do you have enough surface area in that small piece of live rock to house enough bacteria to process the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate for your bio load? If not maybe a sponge or a little more live rock would help.

EDIT: Or course as soon as I typed this I thought to myself that if you are making it through the ammonia/nitrite stage to get the nitrate that must not be the problem....

the live rock in the QT is pretty darn small and no, it's not really a good porous piece with lots of surface area. We did put a sponge in our sump/refug about 2 weeks ago to build up some bacteria, with plan on moving it to QT after 3 weeks or so. Haven't moved it yet.
Maybe I should grab another piece of live rock that's in the sump/refug and pop that in the QT? we have a decent number of relatively small pieces.

 

[cromag27]

A lot of us do not use live rock in a qt. if there are nasties in the rock, you are just introducing them into your qt. cut up pieces of pvc for hiding places and water changes to control the nutrients.

 

[Irsug1]

I dose bacteria and lots of water changes.

 

[BummersReef]

It's possible the tank never properly cycled. you didn't say anything about testing for ammonia and nitrites after you set it up. High nitrates can cause issues with some fish but we're usually talking in the 150pp+ range, but still, less is better.

I think the bioload was too much for this small tank, especially if it didn't properly cycle. Large water changes are your friend.

The QT was set up with water from our DT that had been running for about 2 months. No ammonia in DT ever in all the testing done. I'm sure it was there at the start but as I said above, we didn't start to test until we were at least 3 weeks in. Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, KH, calcium and salinity have all been tested in both QT and DT at least once a week at LFS.
I just can't figure where nitrate is coming from if I don't have ammonia leading to nitrite leading to nitrate .....? I am new to all this and chemistry freaks me out

 

[BummersReef]

I dose bacteria and lots of water changes.

not sure what "dosing bacteria" means but will check it out. Water change, yes, will do and do do. But 30-40% change every day? seems extreme to me but I may just have to suck it up and do it.

 

[cromag27]

It's coming from the fish waste and uneaten food. like I said previously, I believe the bioload was too much for that small tank. make sure you aren't overfeeding. using old water wouldn't really do much as the good bacteria would be on rocks and in sand, not in the water column. water changes. :)

 

[cromag27]

What you might do is get the nitrates down as much as possible by doing a 75% water change. then feed sparingly and monitor the no3 going forward. odds are you won't need to do water changes more than once a week. of course when doing water changes you want to match salinity and temp.

not sure what "dosing bacteria" means but will check it out. Water change, yes, will do and do do. But 30-40% change every day? seems extreme to me but I may just have to suck it up and do it.

 

[Brew12]

not sure what "dosing bacteria" means but will check it out. Water change, yes, will do and do do. But 30-40% change every day? seems extreme to me but I may just have to suck it up and do it.

Ok, I'll explain it as best as I can. Someone else can clean up my mess if I get it wrong! :eek:

Fish waste and uneaten food break down into ammonia. Certain bacteria "eat" the ammonia and turn it into nitrite. Other bacteria "eat" the nitrite and turn it into nitrate. This nitrate is the end of what is referred to as the ammonia cycle. When healthy populations of these bacteria exist in balance we say that a tank has cycled.
So what we are left with is the fairly harmless nitrate. Some of this nitrate can be absorbed by algae. Some will turn into a gas and will leave the tank. The most effective way to get rid of nitrates is with water changes. This is why regular water changes in a quarantine tank are so important. The bacteria will do most of the work but you need to get rid of the nitrates via water changes.

Dosing bacteria refers to buying a product that contains the ammonia and nitrite eating bacteria in it. Put a sponge in your HOB filter, add a bottle of this bacteria, and your QT tank is instantly cycled. You can do this instead of waiting for the process to occur naturally.

I hope I got that right and that it helps!

 

[BummersReef]

Yup I understand the cycle but because I've never seen any ammonia or nitrite I couldn't see where the nitrate came from. But I just must be missing the ammonia and nitrite as I was not testing for nitrite at home. I'm gonna put the sponge in there and do a big water change and just keep on with the water changes. It's what I get from trying 5 fish in there. Btw this is the only time I'll try to QT that many. Rest of fish on our list are all singles

 

[cromag27]

The sponge would provide surface area for good bacteria to grow. but honestly, qts are temporary for the most part, so a lot of us just rely on water changes to keep parameters in check.

 

[BummersReef]

Gotcha. It was just that reading of 100 nitrate when there was no fish or food in there at all. But perhaps there was some stuff hiding that didn't get sucked out. I appreciate all the help etc!

 

[Brew12]

Yup I understand the cycle but because I've never seen any ammonia or nitrite I couldn't see where the nitrate came from. But I just must be missing the ammonia and nitrite as I was not testing for nitrite at home. I'm gonna put the sponge in there and do a big water change and just keep on with the water changes. It's what I get from trying 5 fish in there. Btw this is the only time I'll try to QT that many. Rest of fish on our list are all singles

The reason you don't see the ammonia or nitrite is that it is being consumed almost as fast as it is being produced. You will only see a measurable amount if something is out of balance, such as adding new fish or changing your feeding schedule.
It's kind of like people not understanding how they can have an algae issue if they are reading zero nitrates. The extra nitrates are being absorbed by the algae to grow so they aren't free in the water to be measured.

 

[mcarroll]

A lot of us do not use live rock in a qt. if there are nasties in the rock, you are just introducing them into your qt. cut up pieces of pvc for hiding places and water changes to control the nutrients.

It's worth it to make the QT better....I highly recommend a little seasoned rock in the tank if you have extra.