Nitrites still too high?

VicarReefer

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I'm cycling my Waterbox Reef 70.2 and using ATM colony. I added two small oscellaris clowns and a cleaner shrimp. I'm on Day 13 of the cycle and have the following readings on salifert test kits

Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0.5
Nitrate - 25

Should I be worried that nitrites are still reading this high? When do I do the first water change?
 
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Deep

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I'm cycling my Waterbox Reef 70.2 and using ATM colony. I added two small oscellaris clowns and a cleaner shrimp. I'm on Day 13 of the cycle and have the following readings on salifert test kits

Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0.5
Nitrate - 25

Should I be worried that nitrites are still reading this high? When do I do the first water change?

Most of the nitrate reading is infact the nitrite. So dont bother about nitrates until you read zero nitrites,
 

Azedenkae

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I'm cycling my Waterbox Reef 70.2 and using ATM colony. I added two small oscellaris clowns and a cleaner shrimp. I'm on Day 13 of the cycle and have the following readings on salifert test kits

Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0.5
Nitrate - 25

Should I be worried that nitrites are still reading this high? When do I do the first water change?
Sorry, nitrite or nitrate? Your nitrite reading is not high.
 

MiniReefInABox

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I don’t think your cycle is completed, so technically you shouldn’t have added fish yet because of stress and higher chances of deaths which lead to a prolonged cycle but too late now. So the cycle is completed when your nitrites hit 0 and nitrates start to rise. When nitrates start to rise considerably, you do a water change.
take a look at this chart:
AB5F04D5-4816-4E17-ABF9-8BBD35AE5431.gif
 

MiniReefInABox

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I don’t think your cycle is completed, so technically you shouldn’t have added fish yet because of stress and higher chances of deaths which lead to a prolonged cycle but too late now. So the cycle is completed when your nitrites hit 0 and nitrates start to rise. When nitrates start to rise considerably, you do a water change.
take a look at this chart:
AB5F04D5-4816-4E17-ABF9-8BBD35AE5431.gif
(Read the top of the graph) Your cycle is most likely not going to take 50 days to complete, but it varies. Mine completed in 20. Some complete in 15, some complete in 45. It just varies and there’s not really an exact number. Tell me if you have any questions
 
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Garf

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I'm cycling my Waterbox Reef 70.2 and using ATM colony. I added two small oscellaris clowns and a cleaner shrimp. I'm on Day 13 of the cycle and have the following readings on salifert test kits

Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0.5
Nitrate - 25

Should I be worried that nitrites are still reading this high? When do I do the first water change?
No immediate worry. As long as ammonia is being consumed, which it must be, you are good. Toxic levels of nitrite are almost impossible with just a few small clowns and you are feeding sensibly. You can start whatever water change regime you want immediately, although there’s no rush. Keep your testing going (you may as well use them). You can’t test for nitrates accurately with nitrite in the water which makes the chart above confusing as nitrates read higher earlier on, when really it’s reporting nitrites.
 

vetteguy53081

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Not a danger to your system but getting high and do monitor occasionally. To be told dont worry about nitrites is False, Nitrites
start with waste. Without waste, nitrites wouldn’t exist. Common sources of waste found in aquariums include:
  • Uneaten fish food
  • Fish poop
  • Decaying plants
  • Dirty filters
While waste leads to the appearance of nitrites, it is not the defining cause. As waste breaks down, it gives off ammonia.
A bacteria called nitrosomonas breaks down the ammonia into nitrites. A second bacteria, called nitrobacter, then feeds on the nitrites and produces nitrates. So, nitrites wouldn’t exist without ammonia. The process of ammonia being converted into nitrites by bacteria is called nitrification.
The acceptable level of nitrites in your tank is… Zero.
Nitrites can be pretty bad news. So, in a stocked tank, the level should read 0 ppm (parts per million). The bacteria in an established tank should exist in high enough numbers to break down nitrites the moment they are produced – leading to a zero reading when tested. If your nitrite levels are higher than zero, you need to find the cause of the problem.
Once nitrite levels exceed zero, they are going to be absorbed by your fish – they have no choice in the matter. When the nitrites reach the fish’s blood stream, they stop the blood from carrying oxygen. The more nitrites that are taken in by your fish, the less oxygen the blood can carry. Oxygen is kind of a big deal because your fish need it to live.
So, I am sure you know what happens if your fish take in too many nitrites, right?
What’s interesting is that it doesn’t matter how oxygenated your aquarium is, your fish can still suffocate.
An aquarium with all the bubbles and surface movement in the world isn’t going to help your fish if they cannot draw oxygen out of the water. This entire process is referred to as nitrite poisoning.
 

MiniReefInABox

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I was worried about nitrites. But it's reassuring to hear that it's not high! Should I just do a 20% water change now?
No. Wait until your nitrites are at 0. Your cycle is not completed. It's almost done but not completed. Like @vetteguy53081 said, any nitrite levels above 0 are bad and almost as toxic as ammonia. These nitrite levels are normal during the cycle, but nitrites should never be above 0 after the cycle unless there's a problem. These nitrites will lower in time. Just wait until it gets to 0 and nitrates start to rise before you do a water change. Patience is key.
 

brandon429

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you paid extra for bottle bac that has you ready. the charts above are for unassisted timelines, your cycle is done/evident the healthy/feeding fish (that is, until crypto/brook/uro)

it would be different if you didn't pay and install speed cycling bacteria concentrate.

you are past your cycle, reef as you will. no degree of water changes strips back out your bacteria, they're locked in place until things are dried out.

your focus needs to be disease prevention in fish, and then tank uglies prevention vs the common plan: implement no fish disease plan, and allow all uglies taking 8 months to enjoy the reef. be ready to work hard the first two years-price of a dry rock start.

cycling was the easy part.
 
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mdb_talon

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No. Wait until your nitrites are at 0. Your cycle is not completed. It's almost done but not completed. Like @vetteguy53081 said, any nitrite levels above 0 are bad and almost as toxic as ammonia. These nitrite levels are normal during the cycle, but nitrites should never be above 0 after the cycle unless there's a problem. These nitrites will lower in time. Just wait until it gets to 0 and nitrates start to rise before you do a water change. Patience is key.

Nitrite is nowhere near as toxic as ammonia in a saltwater tank. Would need many times more than .5 to cause serious issues. Its a parameter people hype up i think because of its toxicity in FW, but not at all the same in SW.
 

brandon429

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This post shows by Jon how fast bottle bac actually work. Dr. Tim's is a fair representative among brands/speeds of activation.

this gives us a crucial window into fish-in cycling. its not harming fish, they have their waste filtered as soon as the bac is added to the water there is not a five or twenty day emergence time. its quick/same day.

disease within 8 mos certain is what harms the fish, not the initial cycle.
 

MiniReefInABox

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Nitrite is nowhere near as toxic as ammonia in a saltwater tank. Would need many times more than .5 to cause serious issues. Its a parameter people hype up i think because of its toxicity in FW, but not at all the same in SW.
I agree that it’s no where near as toxic. But that’s not what I’m trying to say. I’m trying to say that his cycle is not complete, which it isn’t if his levels are like that. He doesn’t need to do a water change until nitrites are at 0 and nitrates are starting to rise.
 

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Not a danger to your system but getting high and do monitor occasionally. To be told dont worry about nitrites is False, Nitrites
start with waste. Without waste, nitrites wouldn’t exist. Common sources of waste found in aquariums include:
  • Uneaten fish food
  • Fish poop
  • Decaying plants
  • Dirty filters
While waste leads to the appearance of nitrites, it is not the defining cause. As waste breaks down, it gives off ammonia.
A bacteria called nitrosomonas breaks down the ammonia into nitrites. A second bacteria, called nitrobacter, then feeds on the nitrites and produces nitrates. So, nitrites wouldn’t exist without ammonia. The process of ammonia being converted into nitrites by bacteria is called nitrification.
The acceptable level of nitrites in your tank is… Zero.
Nitrites can be pretty bad news. So, in a stocked tank, the level should read 0 ppm (parts per million). The bacteria in an established tank should exist in high enough numbers to break down nitrites the moment they are produced – leading to a zero reading when tested. If your nitrite levels are higher than zero, you need to find the cause of the problem.
Once nitrite levels exceed zero, they are going to be absorbed by your fish – they have no choice in the matter. When the nitrites reach the fish’s blood stream, they stop the blood from carrying oxygen. The more nitrites that are taken in by your fish, the less oxygen the blood can carry. Oxygen is kind of a big deal because your fish need it to live.
So, I am sure you know what happens if your fish take in too many nitrites, right?
What’s interesting is that it doesn’t matter how oxygenated your aquarium is, your fish can still suffocate.
An aquarium with all the bubbles and surface movement in the world isn’t going to help your fish if they cannot draw oxygen out of the water. This entire process is referred to as nitrite poisoning.
While I typically agree with information you give, I can’t agree with your take on the affect of nitrites on Marine fish. While nitrites can be very toxic to freshwater fish, levels of nitrite have to reach ridiculous levels before causing a problem. I agree a cycled tank should have 0 nitrites, but a low level of nitrite will not affect marine fish.
 

mdb_talon

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I agree that it’s no where near as toxic. But that’s not what I’m trying to say. I’m trying to say that his cycle is not complete, which it isn’t if his levels are like that. He doesn’t need to do a water change until nitrites are at 0 and nitrates are starting to rise.

Ammonia 0 and nitrate 25 tells me cycle is "complete" enough...ammonia will be quickly converted. Years ago i stressed on nitrite. Would get readings on established tanks(years). Whether it was really there, user error, or test kit error i have no idea. Then when researched came to the conclusion it is mostly irrelevant in SW. Have not checked it in any tank since and setup countless tanks. As long as ammonia quickly converted and nitrates going up i consider ready to proceed.
 
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brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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All reefing conventions agree too mdb

If they followed nitrite rules, couldn't start on time. They can start on time with four hundred skip cycle reefs, dry ones included, due to total ease of ammonia control, a non issue in reefing.

That buyers and sellers use different cycling approaches is part of the market design.
 

vetteguy53081

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While I typically agree with information you give, I can’t agree with your take on the affect of nitrites on Marine fish. While nitrites can be very toxic to freshwater fish, levels of nitrite have to reach ridiculous levels before causing a problem. I agree a cycled tank should have 0 nitrites, but a low level of nitrite will not affect marine fish.
My first line indicated " Not a Danger". Warning this person with a NEW tank, the effects of Nitrite if they get too high as some indicated to ignore nitrite. Nitrite is often ignored and does have an effect on oxygen and overall nitrogen cycle when elevated.
 

MiniReefInABox

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Ammonia 0 and nitrate 25 tells me cycle is "complete" enough...ammonia will be quickly converted. Years ago i stressed on nitrite. Would get readings on established tanks(years). Whether it was really there, user error, or test kit error i have no idea. Then when researched came to the conclusion it is mostly irrelevant in SW. Have not checked it in any tank since and setup countless tanks. As long as ammonia quickly converted and nitrates going up i consider ready to proceed.
Refer to the chart that I put in a previous reply that I'll link. @VicarReefer what have your Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate parameters been at the past few days? Have you seen your levels change like the chart in this post:
I don’t think your cycle is completed, so technically you shouldn’t have added fish yet because of stress and higher chances of deaths which lead to a prolonged cycle but too late now. So the cycle is completed when your nitrites hit 0 and nitrates start to rise. When nitrates start to rise considerably, you do a water change.
take a look at this chart:
AB5F04D5-4816-4E17-ABF9-8BBD35AE5431.gif
If you have seen your levels change like this chart, you may be at the cross-sections of nitrite falling and nitrite rising. Your cycle may be formed differently though because of the atm colony. But if your parameters parallel this chart, I would wait for a water change. Id just monitor your levels in the next few days to make your own judgment.
 

brandon429

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That chart is written for unassisted, non bottle bac times.


Check out how fast this dry reef was built on bottle bac, on day 1 of that chart:


see how reef cycling doesn't fit in the common square box of rules anymore



In Jon's seneye link above we see the ammonia # of days wait from a common cycling chart moved up quickly, by bottle bac.

the context surround the chart is everything.

Per day ten of any chart, the ammonia is controlled that's critical. He's past that time and that's even after using 1-2 day bac
 
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brandon429

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There is no harm in @vetteguy53081 cycling approach to wait for nitrite to clear. That's the backbone of our reefing, all cycle materials contain the recommend.

the trending away from considering nitrite is just cycling evolution... everything is so speedy nowadays people just want consistency in keeping animals alive. The real focus should be the emergence of fish disease + loss, nh3 control is the easy part.




People who move homes also like to know about nitrification, nitrite, cycling and recycling prevention its all a very legit study

one thing is for sure: not everyone wants to wait the 30~ days for natural nitrite control, some have practical deadlines due. The ones who waited the extra time got no different outcome than the timed nh3 starts, that's legit science to offer up as well. begins to usher in change- and timeliness for buyers, to the disdain of sellers.

remember that if buyers always, always, always operate from the angle that bacteria in water need us, need our provisions to stay alive, need carefully timed waits for weeks on end that's good for the market. if people began controlling their cycles intently, without testing and supports, going solely off known depositional timing already on file, that'd be most likely bad for markets.

the most standout hidden fact of the cycling revolution is that while everyone is looking left for the fish to die from some rushed start after using skip-cycle bottle bac, on the right disease is taking 80-90% of any fish bought and put into a non fallowed / qt setup. we are aiming our concerns incorrectly in today's cycling threads. always default to the bac being ready v unready after ten days

if skipped fallow, 80% losses are expected by first 6-8 mos says any post in the fish disease forum currently running now or in the past. Everyone who has an opinion about qt/fallow can make work threads in the fish disease forum to test claims. Current work threads clickable right now show fallow and qt 99% dominant method.
 
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