Is anyone with a mindstream or seneye ammonia reader willing to co-fund a cycling experiment with me

Dan_P

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@Dan_P can you let us know if you feel that prior copper treated substrates would affect nitrification testing. I wouldn't think the old rocks would, was mainly concerned about the actively-dosed system altering the reading.

lots of people reef with prior copper rocks and can't keep snails, but their biofilter works and that's our aim here for study.
I think trace copper will not interfere with bacteria growth.
 
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CoralClasher

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@Dan_P can you let us know if you feel that prior copper treated substrates would affect nitrification testing. I wouldn't think the old rocks would, was mainly concerned about the actively-dosed system altering the reading.

lots of people reef with prior copper rocks and can't keep snails, but their biofilter works and that's our aim here for study.
Well I’m planning on using this experiment tank for invert QT eventually. Are rocks even needed if I use 15 pounds of crushed coral with reverse under gravel filter and some plastic decorations?
 
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brandon429

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why did you put a reef in that
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no I agree even that is huge surface area and direct flow right through it
 

puffy127

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FWIW, when I tested cupramine with seneye, it didn't seem to affect the ammonia readings. Chelated copper, however, did give elevated ammonia readings. I believe Jon is using cupramine.
 

CoralClasher

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New tank is ready. All new water and sand, nothing from DT. New slide for the Seneye is soaking.
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brandon429

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why did you put a reef in that
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very clean and nice setup there!!
 

CoralClasher

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Are we curious about the ten gallon QT with copper that has been stuck at 0.018 ammonia for a week? Should I leave it running without fish?
 
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brandon429

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why did you put a reef in that
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The first qt seems ok, it’s reached equilibrium and is holding, it shows if I’m not reading wrong that the small bit of active surface area brought over was able to house the fish and it’s feed and waste and keep at safe levels, and that his behavior matched well and never acted burned, max range attained nh3 was hundredths ppm

the second one can now ideally test fish loading and how much dr Tim’s nh3 will be allowed given no ramp up time, a true test of bottle bac paired now against a known working seneye showing thousandths on a good reef long term, your full size reef even when you add nh3 directly to the big reef you’ve seen the seneye show the spike and trough within 15 mins, and now .001 above which isn’t a misread bc there’s no life in the tank. we can either dose this system here with liquid ammonia and wait to see if it moves down or we can ethically add a fish to the setup as a raw test because you have a machine that will let us know if the rates climb above thousandths

Adding one or two fish above is ideal, that’s how thousands of fish in cycles are made daily in all forums and now for once we get a good reader to tell us if it’s harmful.

*adding raw nh3 is also ok, no fish, but it has to be very small levels not just cycling levels rammed to 2 ppm, two clowns doesn’t produce that much immediate bioload in anyone’s new reef so we’d be working with tiny bits of ammonia, trace additions, just to see if the system can show the spike and then the drop which can then prove handling a few immediate fish would have been safe. We’d have to guess how much initial ammonia to add, it would be more accurate to today’s cycles to use a fish and it’s not unethical since you can dip them out if things climb unsafely and with bottle bac, there’s every indication things won’t.


if you have actual fish or two to go in there a while that’s ideal. So is the nh3 extrapolation if you choose to use it to verify the system could have handled new immediate fish waste. You’ve made the perfect experiment here Jon and another reference thread for reefing that nobody has made yet. Nice job!!
 
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brandon429

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why did you put a reef in that
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This effectively ends the debate on fish in cycles then. That is specific control right from the bottle, linking this to Dr. Reef’s study thread on bottle bac!

:) you did well that’s an amazing setup it truly is


this shows when seneye gets it right, it gets it really really right. The seneye ran within known specs on every form of test here. Truly valuable thread

the alert badge is nice, it shows the residual safe condition too


but seneye caught the dose transition that’s so precise. They have the makings for a good reader they sure do.
 
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ingchr1

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Ok I dosed Dr. Tim’s ammonium chloride to 0.022 within 30 minutes back down to 0.002 and I’m not playing with the trim to get these numbers.
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This has been my experience with dosing Dr. Tims NH4Cl as well. I dose four drops twice a day to my tank. It processes in about an hour, give or take.

This mornings dose, some time around 9AM.

1614447270485.png


Trend of current slide. Each bump up are the doses. The essentially flat line was the previous slide, which for whatever reason was not as reactive as the current slide. Each slide is from the same 2018 batch. I did wipe down the sensor eye when I put this slide in, not sure if that made the difference or not. The last couple of slides I also had to trim to 0.005 to get a reading of the doses. This slide does look like its dropping off a bit as well. Steady state was 0.005 - 0.007 when the slide was new, now it's 0.003.

1614447665755.png
 

CoralClasher

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This has been my experience with dosing Dr. Tims NH4Cl as well. I dose four drops twice a day to my tank. It processes in about an hour, give or take.

This mornings dose, some time around 9AM.

1614447270485.png


Trend of current slide. Each bump up are the doses. The essentially flat line was the previous slide, which for whatever reason was not as reactive as the current slide. Each slide is from the same 2018 batch. I did wipe down the sensor eye when I put this slide in, not sure if that made the difference or not. The last couple of slides I also had to trim to 0.005 to get a reading of the doses. This slide does look like its dropping off a bit as well. Steady state was 0.005 - 0.007 when the slide was new, now it's 0.003.

1614447665755.png
How many gallons is your tank.
 

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