No water change. Does it work long term?

[Dionysos]

Maintenance without water changes (more than 3 years) is becoming very common in my region. For medium volumes but even more so for large volumes. Obviously, you only need to supplement trace element deficiencies revealed by the ICP. ICP every month at first, then 3 to 6 times per year when you have found the average consumption.
Many testimonials believe that the tank is more prosperous, with fewer deviations.

 

[RelaxingWithTheReef]

While No Water Change can work in the short term and offer some water change flexibility, I would say for most people including me, No Water Change can cause problems in the long term.

Problem #1
Adding supplements like AFR or A- K+, only replenish estimations of consumption. Over time some elements increase over time, and others decrease over time. With every passing day the composition of the tank water slowly diverges from natural seawater.

When I use A- K+ and ESV B-Ionic 2-part:
Potassium, Chromium, Fluoride, Manganese, Iodine, Nickel - Decrease over time
Bromide, Strontium, Molybdenum, Lithium, and Selenium - Increase over time

When I supplement using individual elements based in ICP-MS and use ESV B-Ionic 2-part:
Bromide, Lithium, Selenium - Increase over time

I think Bromide and Lithium are coming from the Calcium component of the 2-part. I recently switched to the Randy Mix using BRS pharmaceutical grade Calcium Chloride and Soda Ash with TM Part-C. I’m thinking Selenium is coming from the fish food.

Problem #2
You can make the argument that dosing individual elements with ICP-MS allows you to seemingly supplement all elements that are low, but the problem then becomes the elements that are elevated. There is no way to selective reduce them.

Problem #3
The potential exists for some organics or other toxins to accumulate that cannot be removed with things like activated carbon.

Life took me away from the drudgery of performing water changes for a few months. With trace element dosing I’m happy to report the corals look great, but I’m well aware there can be a ticking time bomb in the shadows. Example - During this time the Lithium in the high consumption SPS tanks increased to around 2,000 ug/l! If you really wanted to fix this and restore the tank to NSW levels, it would require around 90% of the water to be replaced, and this is not easy. This is like 10 20% water changes, or 5 40% water changes!

While many people get away with no water changes, there are risks and you have to be a little lucky to pull it off. The corals you have, what you feed, how much you feed, what you dose, quality of make-up water, etc all play a role, and have to align to provide long term balance.

If you want to better understand exactly what’s going on with trace elements in your tank, do not use a standard ICP test. A test coming back with all zeros for things like Iron, Manganese, Cobalt, Nickel, Chromium, etc is not very helpful. The highly sensitive ICP-MS test must be used.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Do you use activated carbon? Or something similar?

I toss in a singe bag of chemipure when I remember. I don't buy into the marketing BS. It is GAC with a spoonful of GFO. I use it simply because it comes in a convenient bag that I can run in the sink (I don't bother with RI/DO) and toss into the sump.

Though -- for 5+ years there was no skimmer, no dosing, no testing, nothing -- Electricity and ATO was it. I didn't really even feed the fish more than once every 3-4 months. A tang, and a coral beauty. The are/were healthy and fat living off of the tank. I have had both for easily 15 years or more I suppose. There was coral as well -- some LPS (brain, and blue ridge) and mushrooms and leather and palys all lived through that period -- and are still in the tank to this day. However, I wish the mushrooms, blue ridge and paly's would have met their demise.

 

[QuinnLee512]

I started my tank out with no water changes from day 1. For the most part I believe that it's been working fine. Some people like manual labor. I don't. I just like to enjoy looking at my fish and corals. Maybe I will incorporate infrequent 15% water changes but I will for sure check out Moonshiners.

 

[backbayreef]

I toss in a singe bag of chemipure when I remember. I don't buy into the marketing BS. It is GAC with a spoonful of GFO. I use it simply because it comes in a convenient bag that I can run in the sink (I don't bother with RI/DO) and toss into the sump.

Though -- for 5+ years there was no skimmer, no dosing, no testing, nothing -- Electricity and ATO was it. I didn't really even feed the fish more than once every 3-4 months. A tang, and a coral beauty. The are/were healthy and fat living off of the tank. I have had both for easily 15 years or more I suppose. There was coral as well -- some LPS (brain, and blue ridge) and mushrooms and leather and palys all lived through that period -- and are still in the tank to this day. However, I wish the mushrooms, blue ridge and paly's would have met their demise.

Very cool. I’m planning to do the same for my 25gal fishless nano - been only a month so too early to tell.

My 150gal SPS tank is now 4.5yrs without a WC though, just a CaRx and ATO.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Very cool. I’m planning to do the same for my 25gal fishless nano - been only a month so too early to tell.

My 150gal SPS tank is now 4.5yrs without a WC though, just a CaRx and ATO.

Maybe it is because of the overall volume... or something else. I do have a huge pile of rock in the sump as well.


There was a time a decade ago when my phosphates were off (literally) the chart of the hanna ULR. I would guess I was high 1.x something, maybe even 2.

Don't ask me how i got there... I don't know. Overfeeding was part of the issue at the time. But there were other contributing factors. Maybe the perfect storm of them.

 

[PPBlimpy]

Maybe it is because of the overall volume... or something else. I do have a huge pile of rock in the sump as well.


There was a time a decade ago when my phosphates were off (literally) the chart of the hanna ULR. I would guess I was high 1.x something, maybe even 2.

Don't ask me how i got there... I don't know. Overfeeding was part of the issue at the time. But there were other contributing factors. Maybe the perfect storm of them.

do you run a DSB?

my old 180g ran a 4-6 in dsb and I believe that contributed a lot with the stability of the system. along with almost 2lbs/ gallon of rock, and a large refugium

 

[BeanAnimal]

do you run a DSB?

my old 180g ran a 4-6 in dsb and I believe that contributed a lot with the stability of the system. along with almost 2lbs/ gallon of rock, and a large refugium

NO. The system was setup as a shallow sand bed. I ran a DSB in a bucket for a while (well over a decade ago).

Over the years most of the sand has made its way to the two back corners where it may be 4 or 5 inches deep and you can see a bit of stratification that you would see in a DSB. But the area that would be that deep is very small -- maybe a foot square in total.

 

[PPBlimpy]

very cool. appreciate the response.

 

[backbayreef]

Maybe it is because of the overall volume... or something else. I do have a huge pile of rock in the sump as well.


There was a time a decade ago when my phosphates were off (literally) the chart of the hanna ULR. I would guess I was high 1.x something, maybe even 2.

Don't ask me how i got there... I don't know. Overfeeding was part of the issue at the time. But there were other contributing factors. Maybe the perfect storm of them.

I have a Trident to monitor alk/ca/mg but have not tested for N&P (or sent in ICP test) for years! I’m afraid to check but things are growing so why bother? ;)

IME - when you get bigger in water volume, WC will be a pain so you’ll need a different mindset completely.

 

[VintageReefer]

I don’t do water changes at all and my tank was setup 10 years ago. I’ve had losses from neglect but even when I rebuilt I didn’t do water changes. My current setup has been growing out for 2.5 years and it’s still mostly the same water I filled the tank with 10 years ago

I replace water as I take it out - if I take out a gallon for acclimation I will add a gallon of sw back in. I consider this a maintenance task. I don’t do water changes for nutrient reduction, trace replacement, or any other reason. I probably end up changing less than 5g a year on my 75g mixed reef

 

[bubbgee]

I started my tank out with no water changes from day 1. For the most part I believe that it's been working fine. Some people like manual labor. I don't. I just like to enjoy looking at my fish and corals. Maybe I will incorporate infrequent 15% water changes but I will for sure check out Moonshiners.

Great looking tank. Softies and LPS love slightly dirtier water too.

It's only SPS that have the required perfect water parameters debate. Which includes water changes.

 

[BlueBayouReefHTX]

Since my brutes are in the garage, the triple digit summer temp makes water changes even harder. I would have to store a couple of 5 gallon buckets indoors the day before.

Mine are as well- South TX here, summers are hot and humid. Look into insulating your garage door- I did that with a DIY kit and my garage stays relatively mild compared to before.

 

[VintageReefer]

I don’t do water changes at all and my tank was setup 10 years ago. I’ve had losses from neglect but even when I rebuilt I didn’t do water changes. My current setup has been growing out for 2.5 years and it’s still mostly the same water I filled the tank with 10 years ago

I replace water as I take it out - if I take out a gallon for acclimation I will add a gallon of sw back in. I consider this a maintenance task. I don’t do water changes for nutrient reduction, trace replacement, or any other reason. I probably end up changing less than 5g a year on my 75g mixed reef

No water changes. But I would never tell someone they are a bad idea or to stop. I just show with alternate methods you don’t need them. I keep all types of corals except leathers / softies

 

[QuinnLee512]

Mine are as well- South TX here, summers are hot and humid. Look into insulating your garage door- I did that with a DIY kit and my garage stays relatively mild compared to before.

TX as well. My garage is fully insulated (walls, ceiling, and garage door). Unfortunately that doesn't keep the garage at 78 when it's 110 outside.

 

[Bohemian Waxwing]

I am well over 20 years into this tank. Never an ICP test done. I have no idea what one would yield, maybe scary levels of one or more things... maybe not. One may explain troubles I have had over the years, maybe not.

I even purchased a kit a few years ago... it lost the shipping envelope and recently threw the vials out.

Maybe one day... but at $100 or so and no major problems... meh.

Same. Not on the ICP train. Maybe if tank started to crash.

Maintenance without water changes (more than 3 years) is becoming very common in my region. For medium volumes but even more so for large volumes. Obviously, you only need to supplement trace element deficiencies revealed by the ICP. ICP every month at first, then 3 to 6 times per year when you have found the average consumption.
Many testimonials believe that the tank is more prosperous, with fewer deviations.

So $1800 worth of ICP analysis + dosing trace over two years?

I’ll stick to adding clean water once or twice a month…

 

[Bohemian Waxwing]

No water changes. But I would never tell someone they are a bad idea or to stop. I just show with alternate methods you don’t need them. I keep all types of corals except leathers / softies

Wouldn’t be a popular R2R thread without the VintageReefer photobomb.

 

[VintageReefer]

Wouldn’t be a popular R2R thread without the VintageReefer photobomb.

Gotta disprove the naysayers claiming you can’t do X, Y or Z without wc lol

 

[Malum Argenteum]

So I'm curious if the no water change route can work long term or if I should incorporate monthly or bi-monthly water changes?

The answer, of course, is 'yes'. Posing it as an exclusive disjunction causes tension (as everyone noticed a handful of posts in).

This came off as snarky (whether it was intended as such or not isn't important):

You know what’s fun? Doing your best to keep your tank thriving.

...but actually has the whole truth tied up in it -- doing what it takes to make things thrive is the right way, and that's not necessarily a one-size-fits-all process. There's not much wisdom on display in this hobby, but that right there was some.

 

[QuinnLee512]

The answer, of course, is 'yes'. Posing it as an exclusive disjunction causes tension (as everyone noticed a handful of posts in).

This came off as snarky (whether it was intended as such or not isn't important):



...but actually has the whole truth tied up in it -- doing what it takes to make things thrive is the right way, and that's not necessarily a one-size-fits-all process. There's not much wisdom on display in this hobby, but that right there was some.

Lol what? Snarky? Exclusive disjunction? What are you even talking about?