hfxstylo
New Member
Hey,
My first post here, but I want to make a contribution and document my experience with NoPoX overdose so it may calm someone’s nerves like others here have calmed mine. This will be a dump of everything I’ve learned and some assumptions made, so take things I say with a grain of salt.
Starting conditions:
- New tank (~4 months old and cycled, stocked within past two weeks)
- Approximately 60 gallons volume after subtracting rock and sand volume.
- Nitrate approximately 2ppm, Nitrate 0ppm, Ammonia 0, phosphates around .1ppm - .25ppm, pH 8.1.
- Canister filter (Fluval 306), no sump.
- Mixed SPS LPS tank, medium load.
- Two clownfish, one PJ.
The disaster:
After setting up my kalkwasser and magnesium, I decided to get NoPoX set up as I was getting a protein skimmer the next day and wanted to have it on standby in my doser to control nitrate spikes with some planned future additions. I made my own solution of NoPoX with 70% vinegar (5% Acetic) and 30% Vodka (40% ABV), and was just doing some scrolling around the app for my doser.
Dosing pump turns on for what I assumed was the kalk because it was a 25mL+ dose based on the length of time it was on, but I looked at the clock and it wasn’t on the hour like I set up the kalk to dose. Look back at that pump on the app and it’s the NoPoX.. I inadvertently turned the pump on.
Approximate dose was 25-50mL, which is 5-10X my planned daily dose.
Did a large amount of research on this forum with others experiences regarding NoPoX overdoses and elsewhere, and the consensus is that I would experience an anaerobic bacterial bloom, and that it’s a waiting game with water changes, an air stone, UV filter, and your protein skimmer on full blast (more on these later, important!).
Well, I had no skimmer or UV filter, and I don’t have a sump, so that made me incredibly nervous.
My first sign of issue was low pH, which dropped almost immediate from 8.1 to 7.7. The bloom started approx 3-4 hours later near the base of the tank as a slightly opaque cloud, and grew RAPIDLY over and 3-4 hours to become nearly opaque. All other nutrients remained low or approached 0 (phosphate).
Corals:
Everyone here seemed to have no issue with Corals dying off and in fact mentioned their corals seemed to love it. I agree with this, my corals seemed to love it as well and I have so far had no losses.
Fish:
Sentiment on how fish would fare was mixed, or if a QT tank should even be used. I was unsure of how hypoxic the water would become based on my starting conditions, or how long it might last, so was unsure if I should move the fish to a QT tank. Most people had a skimmer to turn on, so maybe their conditions were easier for fish to handle during the bloom. I had 2 clownfish and a PJ/Pajama Cardinal, and after this I only have the 2 clownfish. At the peak of the bloom the PJ started acting erratic (fast swimming reflex to escape low oxygen) and within 10 mins he was dead from hypoxia.
The clownfish were lethargic and gasping for air at the surface, so after the PJ passed I moved them to our QT tank. They almost immediately perked up. Don’t make my mistake and wait, immediately move your fish to a QT tank if you have one. PJ’s are more sensitive to low dissolved oxygen than clownfish, so he was the “cardinal” in the coal mine if you will. From my research, clownfish are one of the more adaptable fish when it comes to low oxygen environments, but this does not mean they can beat truly hypoxic conditions. On posts here some people had their fish survive the entire bloom duration, but most weren’t so lucky.
Course of action:
When I realized what happened I tested the pH @ ~ 7.4 and gave a moderate all-at-once dose of kalkwasser to try and boost the pH back up to at least 7.8. This seems to have helped in the moment (for about 1-2 hours), but in retrospect this seems not necessary as the pH will inevitably go back down due to the oxygen deficiency and increased carbon dioxide. There’s no way you can reasonably control pH in these conditions, just ride it out.
Since I didn’t have a protein skimmer I just used a massive air stone and pointed my two wave makers to the surface to increase oxygen uptake. Air stones allegedly don’t increase dissolved oxygen, but it seemed to help at least reduce the hypoxic effects on the clownfish before I moved them to QT. Keeping the fish alive is the only reason I would use an air stone if this happened again, but moving them to a QT tank and removing the air stone is probably the better course of action to allow the bloom to peak and die off.
I decided against water changes as from my logic they’re effectively pointless before bacterial die off. Your tank is headed to hypoxic conditions whether you want it to or not, you cannot stop the exponential multiplication of bacteria with 10/20/50/90% water changes or reduce the carbon load from a 5-10X overdose by a large enough amount to prevent the bloom. The bacteria will simply continue to multiply fast in any new water until they reach peak concentration, remove all oxygen and nutrients (nitrate and phosphate) from the water, and then die off into your rocks/sand/sump media (if no skimmer). The bacteria have to reach the point of die off before water changes will improve conditions. If anything, water changes before this point could be dangerous, especially if the overdose was moderate to large, because they could prolong the bloom.
Even though I don’t have a skimmer or UV filter I also believe neither would have helped aside from maybe saving the PJ before the peak of the bloom, because again they just delay the inevitable. Protein skimmers remove bacteria and increase oxygen dissolution, but a skimmer is never going to remove bacteria or add oxygen fast enough to outpace the bloom growth. A hobbyist UV filter might also delay the inevitable because of how fast the bloom multiplies, and may actually increase ammonia production. Bacteria are multiplying faster than the UV filter can kill them, meaning you’re prematurely creating the conditions for ammonia spikes before the bloom dies off. This is pure speculation, but it seems like a reasonable assumption.
I removed the air stone approx 3-4 hours after peak bloom, but again I’m doubting it did more good than bad.
Bloom Mechanics:
Again, I was unsure of exactly how hypoxic or how fast it would reach this point and I was caught off guard. At my water volume and dose the bloom started within 3-4 hours, and reached peak hypoxic conditions at 6-8 hours. This process is fast and it is certainly deadly for all fish.
The bacteria that bloom as a result of a NoPoX overdose are opportunistic heterotrophic anaerobic bacteria (such as Vibrio) that starve the tank of oxygen and nutrients (nitrates and phosphates) as the consume the excess carbon.
The bacteria driving this bloom do not depend on light for their metabolism. While light might have indirect effects (through diurnal cycles or interactions with other organisms), it isn’t the key factor behind the severity of the bloom. The availability of organic carbon and nutrient conditions (and factors like oxygen levels) play the central role.
The severity and length of the bloom depends on limiting factors in your tanks initial conditions before an overdose. Overdosing when your tank is at low nitrates and low phosphates is the most ideal situation. The bacteria will starve once they quickly deplete either of the already low phosphates and nitrates, and your tank will likely clear up within 12-18 hours with no protein skimmer. This could take longer for setups with sumps due to the increased water volume.
If your nitrates or phosphates are on the medium to higher end you’re going to have a longer road to peak bloom and die off. It may be worth trying to chemically reduce nitrates and phosphates before the bloom starts to reduce its severity and aftermath. Water changes during a prolonged bloom may also be advised here because ammonia production will likely start to happen before peak if it takes long enough.
After the die off, that’s when you should turn on your protein skimmers to max and do water changes to control any ammonia spikes due to the dead bacteria reentering the nitrogen cycle. Clean any filter socks and bacterial slime buildup off any surfaces, you may need to do this multiple times in a day. If your initial water parameters were low you likely won’t have a huge issue with this, but I’ve seen some horror pics from people with higher starting nitrates and phosphates.
Aftermath:
After going to bed with the tank practically opaque I woke up to it being completely clear. I’m testing water parameters now.
I’ll try to keep updating this as I deal with the aftermath. No ammonia spikes yet, but I will be doing a precautionary 20% water change and getting the new skimmer today. Hopefully this helps someone out in the future as NoPoX overdose seems to be relatively undocumented!
My first post here, but I want to make a contribution and document my experience with NoPoX overdose so it may calm someone’s nerves like others here have calmed mine. This will be a dump of everything I’ve learned and some assumptions made, so take things I say with a grain of salt.
Starting conditions:
- New tank (~4 months old and cycled, stocked within past two weeks)
- Approximately 60 gallons volume after subtracting rock and sand volume.
- Nitrate approximately 2ppm, Nitrate 0ppm, Ammonia 0, phosphates around .1ppm - .25ppm, pH 8.1.
- Canister filter (Fluval 306), no sump.
- Mixed SPS LPS tank, medium load.
- Two clownfish, one PJ.
The disaster:
After setting up my kalkwasser and magnesium, I decided to get NoPoX set up as I was getting a protein skimmer the next day and wanted to have it on standby in my doser to control nitrate spikes with some planned future additions. I made my own solution of NoPoX with 70% vinegar (5% Acetic) and 30% Vodka (40% ABV), and was just doing some scrolling around the app for my doser.
Dosing pump turns on for what I assumed was the kalk because it was a 25mL+ dose based on the length of time it was on, but I looked at the clock and it wasn’t on the hour like I set up the kalk to dose. Look back at that pump on the app and it’s the NoPoX.. I inadvertently turned the pump on.
Approximate dose was 25-50mL, which is 5-10X my planned daily dose.
Did a large amount of research on this forum with others experiences regarding NoPoX overdoses and elsewhere, and the consensus is that I would experience an anaerobic bacterial bloom, and that it’s a waiting game with water changes, an air stone, UV filter, and your protein skimmer on full blast (more on these later, important!).
Well, I had no skimmer or UV filter, and I don’t have a sump, so that made me incredibly nervous.
My first sign of issue was low pH, which dropped almost immediate from 8.1 to 7.7. The bloom started approx 3-4 hours later near the base of the tank as a slightly opaque cloud, and grew RAPIDLY over and 3-4 hours to become nearly opaque. All other nutrients remained low or approached 0 (phosphate).
Corals:
Everyone here seemed to have no issue with Corals dying off and in fact mentioned their corals seemed to love it. I agree with this, my corals seemed to love it as well and I have so far had no losses.
Fish:
Sentiment on how fish would fare was mixed, or if a QT tank should even be used. I was unsure of how hypoxic the water would become based on my starting conditions, or how long it might last, so was unsure if I should move the fish to a QT tank. Most people had a skimmer to turn on, so maybe their conditions were easier for fish to handle during the bloom. I had 2 clownfish and a PJ/Pajama Cardinal, and after this I only have the 2 clownfish. At the peak of the bloom the PJ started acting erratic (fast swimming reflex to escape low oxygen) and within 10 mins he was dead from hypoxia.
The clownfish were lethargic and gasping for air at the surface, so after the PJ passed I moved them to our QT tank. They almost immediately perked up. Don’t make my mistake and wait, immediately move your fish to a QT tank if you have one. PJ’s are more sensitive to low dissolved oxygen than clownfish, so he was the “cardinal” in the coal mine if you will. From my research, clownfish are one of the more adaptable fish when it comes to low oxygen environments, but this does not mean they can beat truly hypoxic conditions. On posts here some people had their fish survive the entire bloom duration, but most weren’t so lucky.
Course of action:
When I realized what happened I tested the pH @ ~ 7.4 and gave a moderate all-at-once dose of kalkwasser to try and boost the pH back up to at least 7.8. This seems to have helped in the moment (for about 1-2 hours), but in retrospect this seems not necessary as the pH will inevitably go back down due to the oxygen deficiency and increased carbon dioxide. There’s no way you can reasonably control pH in these conditions, just ride it out.
Since I didn’t have a protein skimmer I just used a massive air stone and pointed my two wave makers to the surface to increase oxygen uptake. Air stones allegedly don’t increase dissolved oxygen, but it seemed to help at least reduce the hypoxic effects on the clownfish before I moved them to QT. Keeping the fish alive is the only reason I would use an air stone if this happened again, but moving them to a QT tank and removing the air stone is probably the better course of action to allow the bloom to peak and die off.
I decided against water changes as from my logic they’re effectively pointless before bacterial die off. Your tank is headed to hypoxic conditions whether you want it to or not, you cannot stop the exponential multiplication of bacteria with 10/20/50/90% water changes or reduce the carbon load from a 5-10X overdose by a large enough amount to prevent the bloom. The bacteria will simply continue to multiply fast in any new water until they reach peak concentration, remove all oxygen and nutrients (nitrate and phosphate) from the water, and then die off into your rocks/sand/sump media (if no skimmer). The bacteria have to reach the point of die off before water changes will improve conditions. If anything, water changes before this point could be dangerous, especially if the overdose was moderate to large, because they could prolong the bloom.
Even though I don’t have a skimmer or UV filter I also believe neither would have helped aside from maybe saving the PJ before the peak of the bloom, because again they just delay the inevitable. Protein skimmers remove bacteria and increase oxygen dissolution, but a skimmer is never going to remove bacteria or add oxygen fast enough to outpace the bloom growth. A hobbyist UV filter might also delay the inevitable because of how fast the bloom multiplies, and may actually increase ammonia production. Bacteria are multiplying faster than the UV filter can kill them, meaning you’re prematurely creating the conditions for ammonia spikes before the bloom dies off. This is pure speculation, but it seems like a reasonable assumption.
I removed the air stone approx 3-4 hours after peak bloom, but again I’m doubting it did more good than bad.
Bloom Mechanics:
Again, I was unsure of exactly how hypoxic or how fast it would reach this point and I was caught off guard. At my water volume and dose the bloom started within 3-4 hours, and reached peak hypoxic conditions at 6-8 hours. This process is fast and it is certainly deadly for all fish.
The bacteria that bloom as a result of a NoPoX overdose are opportunistic heterotrophic anaerobic bacteria (such as Vibrio) that starve the tank of oxygen and nutrients (nitrates and phosphates) as the consume the excess carbon.
The bacteria driving this bloom do not depend on light for their metabolism. While light might have indirect effects (through diurnal cycles or interactions with other organisms), it isn’t the key factor behind the severity of the bloom. The availability of organic carbon and nutrient conditions (and factors like oxygen levels) play the central role.
The severity and length of the bloom depends on limiting factors in your tanks initial conditions before an overdose. Overdosing when your tank is at low nitrates and low phosphates is the most ideal situation. The bacteria will starve once they quickly deplete either of the already low phosphates and nitrates, and your tank will likely clear up within 12-18 hours with no protein skimmer. This could take longer for setups with sumps due to the increased water volume.
If your nitrates or phosphates are on the medium to higher end you’re going to have a longer road to peak bloom and die off. It may be worth trying to chemically reduce nitrates and phosphates before the bloom starts to reduce its severity and aftermath. Water changes during a prolonged bloom may also be advised here because ammonia production will likely start to happen before peak if it takes long enough.
After the die off, that’s when you should turn on your protein skimmers to max and do water changes to control any ammonia spikes due to the dead bacteria reentering the nitrogen cycle. Clean any filter socks and bacterial slime buildup off any surfaces, you may need to do this multiple times in a day. If your initial water parameters were low you likely won’t have a huge issue with this, but I’ve seen some horror pics from people with higher starting nitrates and phosphates.
Aftermath:
After going to bed with the tank practically opaque I woke up to it being completely clear. I’m testing water parameters now.
I’ll try to keep updating this as I deal with the aftermath. No ammonia spikes yet, but I will be doing a precautionary 20% water change and getting the new skimmer today. Hopefully this helps someone out in the future as NoPoX overdose seems to be relatively undocumented!
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