Nuking QT.

[bevo5]

So - I had an unfortunate event happen in my QT. I don't know what happened, but my entire group of anthias just up and died after having been eating and active for 2 weeks.

Here's the history of events: it's a 29g biocube. 1.024, zero ammonia/nitrite. Nitrate probably too high.

-Got the group of 6 despar anthias two weeks ago and acclimated to QT as normal. Drips and temp etc. All were eating basically out of the bag.

-I was feeding 2-3x daily. Twice with Reef frenzy and once with various flakes. They all ate enthusiastically.

-About two or three days later, one had a cloudy eye and I figured it had gotten into a scrap or something as nobody else had issues. I decided to see what happened with that before starting any prazi or cupramine.

-Eye wasn't really clearing up and I got super busy with work last week, so wife fed weds/thursday.

-I came home Friday to one dead, the others gasping at the bottom. Uh oh!

-Checked ammonia...nothing.

-Did 30% water change and created a waterfall of aeration.

-Next day, two more dead. Others still gasping.

-Did 30% water change. Tested nitrates at this point. They were at about 10ppm. So I'm guessing they were pretty high before.

-Yesterday, one more dead. This morning one more dead.

-Last one was out swimming around and eating. it's the one with the cloudy eye, which is ironic.

So....at no point did any of them show spots of anything. Nothing physically wrong that I can tell. Has to be something in the water but I don't know what. It had been about 6 days since a water change.

At this point. What would you guys suggest for moving forward? Should I just absolutely nuke the crap out of the tank with bleach? Then just start from scratch? Will that do it?

Or should I throw it in the garbage?

Any thoughts on what could kill the group so fast? My first thought was an ammonia spike from maybe my wife overfeeding. But I have all the food in portions and I did a huge water change. At no point did my ammonia monitor/test kit ever show anything. So even if it spiked and went back down, would that cause longterm damage they couldn't recover from?

Any thoughts would be great. Thanks.

 

[Duke4Life]

Bleach the tank and equipment. Kinda sounds like flukes or internal parasite with the time frame.

 

[Chknsamich]

From the timeline and symptoms either velvet or uronema. Since theres no physical signs I'm gonna lean towards velvet since it will sometimes just attack the gills of the fish and never show it self.

You dont need to throw the tank alway. Just bleach everything and give the equipments a lot of time to dry.

 

[MCooper]

Sorry to hear about your loss! Curious to hear what people say.

 

[DeniseAndy]

You should also be able to just simply run the system on freshwater for 24hours. Then let everything completely dry out. Then re-set up. Anthias can be tricky buggers. Sorry for your loss.

 

[Chknsamich]

Flukes and internal parasites won't become a problem over night. Internal parasites usually looks like a fish wasting away which can sometimes takes weeks or months. Flukes on the other hand does not kill fish like flies. This is normally a sign of fish coming from a system that was running low copper.

 

[bevo5]

Flukes and internal parasites won't become a problem over night. Internal parasites usually looks like a fish wasting away which can sometimes takes weeks or months. Flukes on the other hand does not kill fish like flies. This is normally a sign of fish coming from a system that was running low copper.

Thanks for the replies all - curious about this last one. Are you saying the fish dying like this is a symptom of fish coming from low copper set-ups?

I figured I would see SOMETHING if it were velvet. Some spots somewhere, even if they were mostly on the gills.

They were in there for two weeks just fine...no breathing heavy, no anything. Eating like crazy. Then just up and done. No physical signs that I can see of anything.

one thing I completely forgot - I have a Lubbocks Wrasse in there as well. They were all QT'ing together. He seems to be fine. Hasn't stopped eating and isn't acting that odd...hides a lot, but always has.

 

[Chknsamich]

Some LFS and suppliers run non therapeutic level copper to prevent fish deaths. While this is good for their business it masks the diseases. This is why sometimes when a person buys a fish and introduce it into the tank the tank will be fine till the diseases shows up within 5-8 weeks.

Reason seeing at least one physical sign isn't true is because one, velvet kills quickly. two, the spots are not like ich they are much smaller like dust without right lighting its easy to miss. Velvet can kill without showing any other than behavioral. Theres no way we can know for sure is velvet without biopsy but the timeline fits to me.

As for the wrasse i would keep an eye on him. its not uncommon to have a solo survival in a velvet wipe out. due to temporary immunity and or hardiness. I would keep an eye on him because velvet causes fish to shy away from light. could be a reason why he is hiding.

 

[bevo5]

Gotcha - thanks all.

Given that A) it sure seems like the fish are all going to die anyway and B) there's absolutely no way that wrasse is seeing the inside of my DT anytime soon. Should I just treat for the velvet? Full on copper?

 

[Chknsamich]

chloroquine phosphate is the best treatment for velvet but i had bad results using it on fairy wrasse.I would start of with a formalin dip at 1ml per gallon and make sure the bath is well oxygenated by running an air stone at least 30mins before putting the fish in the bath. Then into a clean tank with low copper then bring it up from there since you say the wrasse still looks fine you may have time to bring the copper up.

When there are no physical signs of velvet but you suspect it keep an eye out for the wrasse breathing. If its rapid in an otherwise stress free environment then i would act fast.

 

[cmcoker]

Do this https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?threads/217570/
@Humblefish recommends acriflavine, instead of formalin, as a Chemical bath then into copper. Full details in the link

Edit to add, use formalin if that is all you have available, don't wait for a med to be shipped if it's velvet you don't have time to lose

 

[Humblefish]

Some LFS and suppliers run non therapeutic level copper to prevent fish deaths. While this is good for their business it masks the diseases. This is why sometimes when a person buys a fish and introduce it into the tank the tank will be fine till the diseases shows up within 5-8 weeks.

Reason seeing at least one physical sign isn't true is because one, velvet kills quickly. two, the spots are not like ich they are much smaller like dust without right lighting its easy to miss. Velvet can kill without showing any other than behavioral. Theres no way we can know for sure is velvet without biopsy but the timeline fits to me.

As for the wrasse i would keep an eye on him. its not uncommon to have a solo survival in a velvet wipe out. due to temporary immunity and or hardiness. I would keep an eye on him because velvet causes fish to shy away from light. could be a reason why he is hiding.

^^Perfectly stated. With velvet, dinospores invade the gills in such great numbers that the fish dies due to asphyxiation before visible physical symptoms ever have a chance to manifest. This isn't the case 100% of the time, but it does happen quite often if the infestation is heavy.

 

[bevo5]

Thanks guys - that seems to make sense. Sucks that it can wait so long to show up....and then show up with minimal signs.

But now I'm going to be really sick.....because I probably screwed myself really bad. I really thought it was just an ammonia or nitrate issue so I did a water change ASAP. Without really thinking....I used my Python to fill the tank back up - but I never let the tube touch the water.

Problem I just realized is that I did a water change on the display about 12hours later...with the Python.

In theory - a splash of water that could have something bad on it could have gotten onto the Python tube....which then sat out for about 12 hours in my garage...and then went into my display.

Did I just royally screw myself??? Please tell me the chances of something carrying over are minimal.

 

[DeniseAndy]

minimal.

 

[melypr1985]

Thanks guys - that seems to make sense. Sucks that it can wait so long to show up....and then show up with minimal signs.

But now I'm going to be really sick.....because I probably screwed myself really bad. I really thought it was just an ammonia or nitrate issue so I did a water change ASAP. Without really thinking....I used my Python to fill the tank back up - but I never let the tube touch the water.

Problem I just realized is that I did a water change on the display about 12hours later...with the Python.

In theory - a splash of water that could have something bad on it could have gotten onto the Python tube....which then sat out for about 12 hours in my garage...and then went into my display.

Did I just royally screw myself??? Please tell me the chances of something carrying over are minimal.

I'd say it's a low chance. Try not to stress over things you can't change. It's done and there's a low chance it transferred a disease over to your display. In the future..... You may get a different python or siphon hose for water changes on the QT.

 

[bevo5]

Ugh - thanks y'all.

I have a different siphon and I normally use the my buckets marked with a big X for the QT.....but I was moving fast trying to get new water in there and just messed up. Dumb thing is I was aware enough to make sure the siphon didn't touch the water, but I should have at least dipped it in bleach or something. I'm hoping that the chances of the perfect series of unlikely events happening are slim.

I also miscounted somehow...I have one anthias left and the wrasse.

They both ate this morning....so I guess that's good. I'm going to follow the velvet directions above tonight and see what happens.

Thanks again.

 

[bevo5]

Quick update/question - today makes it 3 full weeks since I idiotically used the same siphon on the QT and DT. The general opinion here was that the QT had velvet. Well...

KNOCK ON WOOD - but..

Nobody in the DT seems to be suffering. I have been patiently waiting to see if any signs of velvet pop up. The only issue I ever saw was a Naso that seemed to be breathing a bit heavier but that was over a week ago and I think maybe she was just being bullied a bit by the male.

So - how long until it's probably safe to assume that things are OK?

 

[melypr1985]

I would think you should see signs of it within 3 weeks. if nothing presents itself in another week, then you -theoretically- should be safe. There have been cases of velvet where there were no physical signs, just behavioral ones. So watch for that as well.

 

[bevo5]

Well - funny thing happened with it this morning.

I went down to feed the tank and my blue-jaw trigger had a ton of white spots on his head. So that's awesome. They were very large spots. In the past he's had the same types of spots on him but this was months ago and they went away in like 10 minutes. I figured it was just something stuck on him then.

I went ahead and caught him and stuck him in a bucket while I made sure the QT was ready. I come back in and he's COVERED in chunks of white stuff in the bucket. Like head to toe. All of a sudden....has to just have been debris in the bucket from the net kicking up sand etc. cause he was covered in it.

I pull him out and (with gloves) I notice that none of it sticks to him. It's all just seems like sand and debris - I put him in the QT and there are no spots anywhere. Head clear etc.

So here's what I think happened - y'all tell me if it's likely. He got some chunk stuck to him (like last time - big white bits of sand or something). I freaked out and tossed him in bucket. There he got more stuff stuck on him - then when I got him out it shook off and now he's in the QT super ticked off.

Seems like it was just some sand or junk and I freaked out. Velvet might rub off in current - but he was covered in junk in the bucket out of nowhere. I don't think that would be velvet. Eh?

 

[melypr1985]

It shouldn't rub off - velvet and ich are under the outer layer of skin. So if it all came off that easy then yes, it seems you have jumped the gun. It's ok. It means you are paying attention and prepared to act if it's needed. Let him rest from the ordeal a bit and see how he does.