NYOS Salt

[rtparty]

I have to make my own calibration solution?

You don’t trust BRS “refracto juice?”

It is super easy. Standard table salt and RO water

BRS refractometer solution is just rebranded Brightwell. Did they make it correctly? Was the lid properly installed? Did some liquid evaporate and make the salinity higher?

I’ve watched more than one person buy multiples of all the different brands and have them read wildly different even within the same brand.

 

[The Warelock]

I’d look up Randy’s DIY refractometer solution and make some. Make sure your refractometer is correct. I’ve found so many bad batches of calibration solution I don’t trust any of them

I tested the first few batches of NYOS salt and alkalinity was spot on. I haven’t checked the last couple though

What about this thing:

High Precision Hydrometer

Ensure that your equipment is reading correctly and your aquarium is at the right salinity with Tropic Marin's High Precision Hydrometer. Many tank inhabitants are sensitive even to minor changes of the water conditions. Unfortunately as we've all experienced, salinity reading equipment as...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[rtparty]

What about this thing:

High Precision Hydrometer

Ensure that your equipment is reading correctly and your aquarium is at the right salinity with Tropic Marin's High Precision Hydrometer. Many tank inhabitants are sensitive even to minor changes of the water conditions. Unfortunately as we've all experienced, salinity reading equipment as...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Great piece of equipment. Super fragile though. Best used in like a 500ml beaker

 

[Christan Kapaun]

Thank you for your feedback.

It is very difficult to measure parameters like Magnesium, Calcium and Alkalinity precisely with home test kits. Here are my comments:

1) First you need to check the Salinity. All parameters of salt mixes are dependent on the Salinity. If your salinity is for example 34ppt instead of 35ppt, the parameters are all 3% lower. Speaking in your case, that would mean 8.4 dkh instead of 8.7.

All the refractometers are made in China from similar suppliers and I would only trust them to a certain point. My recommendation for calibration is natural sea water or water from you LFS that is checked with a conductivity meter. But even with high end conductivity meters with >1.000 USD you have to accept +\- 0.3 ppt. I would not recommend cheap conductivity meters.
Also, I would not make my own reference solution. You need a laboratory grade scale and you need a conical flask because the water volume changes when you add Sodium Chloride to the water.

2) The same goes for home grade test kits.
It is possible to get relatively precise results, but you need a lot of training and knowledge to avoid mistakes. Here are some examples:

-Sample size on titration test kits is extremely important(all Mg,Ca and ALK test kits): If you need 1ml tank water for the test and due to a mistake your sample size is 0.1ml lower, your results are 10% lower (so 7.8 instead of 8.7dKH)

-The concentration of the hydrochloric acid of your Alkalinity test kit determines the result. If it is higher due to evaporation or production variations, this changes your reading accordingly.

I just checked the Hanna Checker data sheet and it says that the accuracy is +/- 5%, that means on the same sample it can vary by 0,9 dkH!

Don’t get me wrong, it is still a super helpful device but I just wouldn’t assume that the accuracy is 0.1. To be fair, it has a great price compared to a laboratory grade photometer for several thousand USD and therefore you cannot expect a perfect accuracy.

I am very confident that if we write 8.7 dKH on the bucket the Alkalinity really is 8.7 and not 8.5 or 8.9 dKH. We are using the salt in our coral farm every day with big water changes and I also know from a practical experience that these parameters are valid.

My personal recommendation is to go to your LFS and let them double check your parameters. They usually use the same hobby grade equipment but they have a lot of experience with it because they use it every day.

Best regards
Christian

 

[rtparty]

@Randy Holmes-Farley thoughts on the above reply?

 

[The Warelock]

Great piece of equipment. Super fragile though. Best used in like a 500ml beaker

I bought one because now you got me paranoid about my salinity :(

It should arrive in a couple of days.

 

[The Warelock]

Thank you for your feedback.

It is very difficult to measure parameters like Magnesium, Calcium and Alkalinity precisely with home test kits. Here are my comments:

1) First you need to check the Salinity. All parameters of salt mixes are dependent on the Salinity. If your salinity is for example 34ppt instead of 35ppt, the parameters are all 3% lower. Speaking in your case, that would mean 8.4 dkh instead of 8.7.

All the refractometers are made in China from similar suppliers and I would only trust them to a certain point. My recommendation for calibration is natural sea water or water from you LFS that is checked with a conductivity meter. But even with high end conductivity meters with >1.000 USD you have to accept +\- 0.3 ppt. I would not recommend cheap conductivity meters.
Also, I would not make my own reference solution. You need a laboratory grade scale and you need a conical flask because the water volume changes when you add Sodium Chloride to the water.

2) The same goes for home grade test kits.
It is possible to get relatively precise results, but you need a lot of training and knowledge to avoid mistakes. Here are some examples:

-Sample size on titration test kits is extremely important(all Mg,Ca and ALK test kits): If you need 1ml tank water for the test and due to a mistake your sample size is 0.1ml lower, your results are 10% lower (so 7.8 instead of 8.7dKH)

-The concentration of the hydrochloric acid of your Alkalinity test kit determines the result. If it is higher due to evaporation or production variations, this changes your reading accordingly.

I just checked the Hanna Checker data sheet and it says that the accuracy is +/- 5%, that means on the same sample it can vary by 0,9 dkH!

Don’t get me wrong, it is still a super helpful device but I just wouldn’t assume that the accuracy is 0.1. To be fair, it has a great price compared to a laboratory grade photometer for several thousand USD and therefore you cannot expect a perfect accuracy.

I am very confident that if we write 8.7 dKH on the bucket the Alkalinity really is 8.7 and not 8.5 or 8.9 dKH. We are using the salt in our coral farm every day with big water changes and I also know from a practical experience that these parameters are valid.

My personal recommendation is to go to your LFS and let them double check your parameters. They usually use the same hobby grade equipment but they have a lot of experience with it because they use it every day.

Best regards
Christian

I ordered a hydrometer + cylinder to verify salinity better. I also use two separate Hanna checker reagent bottles when I got the weird readings. Both gave similar results ~7.6dkh.

I’ll let you know if my salinity was off when the hydrometer arrives.

Also +/- 5% for the Hanna alkalinity checker can’t be up to a 0.9dkh variance right? Like if my Hanna checker was giving a 5% lower reading of 8.7dkh, then it would be ~8.3dkh no? Not 7.6dkh

Also I use Hanna cuvettes and always fill them to the line exactly, and the reagent always fills to the same place on the syringe. I don’t know, yeah variances are built in to everything at the hobby grade consumer level but I haven’t had this type of variance up until now. I also mixed some Red Sea black bucket at 34ppt to see and got 10.8dkh on the Hanna checker which is only 0.2dkh difference from what the bucket advertised (11dkh). So still lower, but not such a huge difference.

 

[rtparty]

I ordered a hydrometer + cylinder to verify salinity better. I also use two separate Hanna checker reagent bottles when I got the weird readings. Both gave similar results ~7.6dkh.

I’ll let you know if my salinity was off when the hydrometer arrives.

Also +/- 5% for the Hanna alkalinity checker can’t be up to a 0.9dkh variance right? Like if my Hanna checker was giving a 5% lower reading of 8.7dkh, then it would be ~8.3dkh no? Not 7.6dkh

Also I use Hanna cuvettes and always fill them to the line exactly, and the reagent always fills to the same place on the syringe. I don’t know, yeah variances are built in to everything at the hobby grade consumer level but I haven’t had this type of variance up until now. I also mixed some Red Sea black bucket at 34ppt to see and got 10.8dkh on the Hanna checker which is only 0.2dkh difference from what the bucket advertised (11dkh). So still lower, but not such a huge difference.

Coral Pro should (big should) be 11.5dkh at 34ppt and 12dkh at 35ppt. At least that is what the current buckets are advertised at

By chance are you weighing the salt or measuring with cups?

Getting salinity correct is the most important step in checking parameters

 

[The Warelock]

Coral Pro should (big should) be 11.5dkh at 34ppt and 12dkh at 35ppt. At least that is what the current buckets are advertised at

By chance are you weighing the salt or measuring with cups?

Getting salinity correct is the most important step in checking parameters

Using a measuring cup (half cup per gallon and then using refractometer to adjust)

 

[The Warelock]

Thank you for your feedback.

It is very difficult to measure parameters like Magnesium, Calcium and Alkalinity precisely with home test kits. Here are my comments:

1) First you need to check the Salinity. All parameters of salt mixes are dependent on the Salinity. If your salinity is for example 34ppt instead of 35ppt, the parameters are all 3% lower. Speaking in your case, that would mean 8.4 dkh instead of 8.7.

All the refractometers are made in China from similar suppliers and I would only trust them to a certain point. My recommendation for calibration is natural sea water or water from you LFS that is checked with a conductivity meter. But even with high end conductivity meters with >1.000 USD you have to accept +\- 0.3 ppt. I would not recommend cheap conductivity meters.
Also, I would not make my own reference solution. You need a laboratory grade scale and you need a conical flask because the water volume changes when you add Sodium Chloride to the water.

2) The same goes for home grade test kits.
It is possible to get relatively precise results, but you need a lot of training and knowledge to avoid mistakes. Here are some examples:

-Sample size on titration test kits is extremely important(all Mg,Ca and ALK test kits): If you need 1ml tank water for the test and due to a mistake your sample size is 0.1ml lower, your results are 10% lower (so 7.8 instead of 8.7dKH)

-The concentration of the hydrochloric acid of your Alkalinity test kit determines the result. If it is higher due to evaporation or production variations, this changes your reading accordingly.

I just checked the Hanna Checker data sheet and it says that the accuracy is +/- 5%, that means on the same sample it can vary by 0,9 dkH!

Don’t get me wrong, it is still a super helpful device but I just wouldn’t assume that the accuracy is 0.1. To be fair, it has a great price compared to a laboratory grade photometer for several thousand USD and therefore you cannot expect a perfect accuracy.

I am very confident that if we write 8.7 dKH on the bucket the Alkalinity really is 8.7 and not 8.5 or 8.9 dKH. We are using the salt in our coral farm every day with big water changes and I also know from a practical experience that these parameters are valid.

My personal recommendation is to go to your LFS and let them double check your parameters. They usually use the same hobby grade equipment but they have a lot of experience with it because they use it every day.

Best regards
Christian

The tropic marin hydrometer arrived, it is showing “24.5” in the water being measured at 77F temp.

@rtparty @Christian Kapaun

 

[rtparty]

The tropic marin hydrometer arrived, it is showing “24.5” in the water being measured at 77F temp.

@rtparty @Christian Kapaun

That’s roughly 33.5ppt. So your refractometer is reading high. Use that water to calibrate your refractometer. Place the water in, let it sit for 15 seconds or so, and then calibrate it to read 33.5ppt or 1.0245sg

 

[The Warelock]

The tropic marin hydrometer arrived, it is showing “24.5” in the water being measured at 77F temp.

@rtparty @Christian Kapaun

Calibrated refractometer is showing 1.026 (just a hair under 35ppm salinity).

 

[The Warelock]

That’s roughly 33.5ppt. So your refractometer is reading high. Use that water to calibrate your refractometer. Place the water in, let it sit for 15 seconds or so, and then calibrate it to read 33.5ppt or 1.0245sg

Oh man this is crazy… I feel like my tank has looked good since I started it. All corals and inverts seems very healthy.

 

[rtparty]

Oh man this is crazy… I feel like my tank has looked good since I started it. All corals and inverts seems very healthy.

That salinity level won’t cause any livestock issues IMO. But it will effect parameters when you make salt

 

[The Warelock]

That salinity level won’t cause any livestock issues IMO. But it will effect parameters when you make salt

Dang. And how reliable is this hydrometer? No chance THIS could be miscalibrated or something too right? I spent like $40+ shipping on this thing

 

[The Warelock]

And the difference between mixing at 33.5 and 35 would be the 1dkh discrepancy I was getting?

 

[rtparty]

Dang. And how reliable is this hydrometer? No chance THIS could be miscalibrated or something too right? I spent like $40+ shipping on this thing

The TM hydrometer is one of the most accurate checkers in the hobby

 

[rtparty]

And the difference between mixing at 33.5 and 35 would be the 1dkh discrepancy I was getting?

So Red Sea claims Coral Pro salt should be 11.5dkh at 34ppt. Does your bucket say 11dkh instead of the 11.5dkh? They may have changed this at some point but I recall during my salt test that RSCP salt was supposed to mix at 12dkh at 35ppt. So at 34ppt that would come to roughly 11.6dkh which is super close to the 11.5dkh on the buckets now.

So your reading of 10.8dkh was off around .7dkh. It isn't this simple but assume the .7dkh is the actual discrepancy and that puts your NYOS at 8.3dkh at 33.5ppt. At 35ppt it would equal ~8.6dkh

 

[The Warelock]

So Red Sea claims Coral Pro salt should be 11.5dkh at 34ppt. Does your bucket say 11dkh instead of the 11.5dkh? They may have changed this at some point but I recall during my salt test that RSCP salt was supposed to mix at 12dkh at 35ppt. So at 34ppt that would come to roughly 11.6dkh which is super close to the 11.5dkh on the buckets now.

So your reading of 10.8dkh was off around .7dkh. It isn't this simple but assume the .7dkh is the actual discrepancy and that puts your NYOS at 8.3dkh at 33.5ppt. At 35ppt it would equal ~8.6dkh

Ok thanks! I’m gonna make another batch of the Nyos for my weekly water change. I’ll do 35ppt and check with the hydrometer and run another hanna checker alk test.

 

[rtparty]

Ok thanks! I’m gonna make another batch of the Nyos for my weekly water change. I’ll do 35ppt and check with the hydrometer and run another hanna checker alk test.

I found weighing salt is far more accurate and consistent if you have a scale and want to go down that rabbit hole too