O the cycle...

[ralquist]

Hey everyone!
Very new to saltwater
In the fishless cycle +/- a few hiccups along the way but looking for advise on the next course of action.
The setup:
RO/DI system up and running great
JBJ 45 AIO
30 LB Caribsea life rock
30LB Caribsea live sand
Heater
2 power heads mp-10 & Nero 3
2 inTank media baskets, little foam and full of ceramic bio media
AI hydra 32 (only on to take a few pics then back off)
ATO
Tunze 9004 skimmer, still in the box not set up during the cycle process

On 2/25/23 tank wet/Fishless w/ blue bucket Reasea salt
Fritz turbo start added along w/ Algae Barn nitrocycle(40mL) (the kit from BRS) Salinity 1.024-1.026 and temp 77.9
2/27/23
API TEST KIT: Ammonia 8ppm, Nitrite 5ppm, pH was 7.8-8, Nitrate 10-20ppm.
3/1/23
Ammonia .5-1ppm, Nitrite 2-5ppm, pH 7.8-8
3/4/23
Ammonia 0-.25, Nitrites 2-5ppm, pH 7.8 (def color difference) Nitrates off the charts 160+
3/5/23
50% Water change, though the Nitrites/Nitrates to high and pH low
3/6/23
Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0-.25, Nitrates 80ppm+

This is where the wheels came off
3/7/23
Decided to dose to 2ppm Ammonia, cap wasn't tight on the Nitrocycle bottle... Dosed 3-4x more than intended, after settling a few hrs the API was dark green 8ppm+
3/10/23
Ammonia 4ppm, Nitrite 5ppm
3/11/23
Ammonia 0.5-1ppm, Nitrate 5ppm
3/12
Ammonia 0-0.25, Nitrates 5ppm
50% water change
*5hrs later Ammonia 0-0.25, Nitrite 2-5ppm, pH 8.2
3/13 see pic
Ammonia 0-0.25, Nitrite .25, Nitrate 40-80ppm, pH is 8

So now what!? Assuming test today will show 0 for ammonia and nitrite as trending.
Should I re dose algae barn nitrocycle to 1-2ppm, see if will process in 24hrs back to 0?
My fear is Nitrites have remained the same elevated until a water change was done to assist it, if I do dose then I'll right where I started a week ago.
Trying to stay positive, just looking for some guidance and some wisdom from y'all!
Thanks and sorry for the long post!

 

[brandon429]

your cycle is simply done,
do a water change to export all the algae nutrients from the repeat dosing. you can reef now

none of your current test kits matter / this is a cycled tank look how fast ammonia moved down using 10x the bioloading a normal reef will ever see, and you did it in under a month which shows your fritz is perfectly live.

this cycle is done, no more testing nor consideration about your cycle is applicable here, time to move to fish disease preps. if you skip them, the fish have a 90% chance of dying by the summertime having nothing to do with cycling, see the fish disease forum for survival rates after skipping preps/promise am not making up scare tactics this % likelihood comes from the disease forum.

you are fully done cycling, anything you add now will live, you're into disease prepping solely. ammonia is fine, nitrite doesn't factor in today's reef tank cycling due to the chemistry of saltwater and how its different than freshwater cycles, you are done cycling. the second dose of ammonia wasn't needed at all, but easily verifies again you're cycled. nice charted movement of ammonia + a timeline above, well done.

I have a forty page thread showing a hundred cycles like yours if you want to read it, however this summary above saves you having to read it.

even if your api was slightly greener than that, for ammonia, you'd still be done. it's actually rare to get api that yellow after dosing this much ammonia, the test kits you post look better than what most 4 year old reefs look like on api ammonia, they're usually double that green level.

= your test kits are passing not failing.

 

[ralquist]

your cycle is simply done,
do a water change to export all the algae nutrients from the repeat dosing. you can reef now

Awesome, this is making my week!! So do another 50% change from 3/12 and I'll be off to the next crisis!?lol
While I've got you, would you recommend ramping up the lighting slowly day by day, believe that should be easy with the AI app? Lastly from my understanding, I don't need the skimmer in until there is a decent amount of stock in the tank? I've got 2 little clowns been in observation for about 2 weeks and they would be the only thing going in, whatever comes next will need to QT so looking at a month of just the clowns.
Thanks again!

 

[brandon429]

well done on the fish preps! well done. its ok to skim now: though I don't use skimmers (pico reefs r too small) I read from people online they like them dialed in and getting coated in slicks now, plus they can't harm your cycle, nothing can degrade the cycle now. agreed on water change, you're set.

*one small caveat only to reveal the true challenging nature of the fish disease issue set before our hobby

that was great to observe the fish, ensure they did not have obvious disease/it's a marked step up from what most do with a ready-tank (add fish already)

anything you add wet from a pet store brings in a potential disease risk in the future, so hopefully you can buy from places that semi-prepare frags and items to be disease free if possible.

 

[Akreefnewguy]

Awesome, this is making my week!! So do another 50% change from 3/12 and I'll be off to the next crisis!?lol
While I've got you, would you recommend ramping up the lighting slowly day by day, believe that should be easy with the AI app? Lastly from my understanding, I don't need the skimmer in until there is a decent amount of stock in the tank? I've got 2 little clowns been in observation for about 2 weeks and they would be the only thing going in, whatever comes next will need to QT so looking at a month of just the clowns.
Thanks again!

Ya just water change down to nitrate 5ppm even 10ppm slowly add livestock no more dosing, and weekly water changer 10 to 20% will replenish alk, cal, ph, etc.

 

[ralquist]

well done on the fish preps! well done. its ok to skim now: though I don't use skimmers (pico reefs r too small) I read from people online they like them dialed in and getting coated in slicks now, plus they can't harm your cycle, nothing can degrade the cycle now. agreed on water change, you're set.

*one small caveat only to reveal the true challenging nature of the fish disease issue set before our hobby

that was great to observe the fish, ensure they did not have obvious disease/it's a marked step up from what most do with a ready-tank (add fish already)

anything you add wet from a pet store brings in a potential disease risk in the future, so hopefully you can buy from places that semi-prepare frags and items to be disease free if possible.

Clear my schedule I'm making water!!

What was your thoughts on introducing light into the equation, start small with a few hrs at a time on low power?

Thank you, I know the QT seems to be the most vital aspect for avoiding trouble. I've purchased all the meds needed to treat. Been a worry of mine as the LFS around seem to roll their eyes at me when asked about the practice.

Lucky for me I found a Clown breeder local, shout out to https://theclownfishshop.com I was able to go check out the operation and pick my fish! Awesome place for sure, definitely alleviated any worry about having to pre treat and go down that rabbit hole. Clowns are doing great and eating well in observation!

Thanks again!

 

[LordofCinder]

if no corals in the tank, then the light is for our convenience and pleasure, the fish don't need it.

The new idea in reefing is to keep the lights off for the first month or two or three, give the system a chance to develop bacteria, which will help fight off a huge algae outbreak. The algae is coming no matter what, but the longer the lights are off, the less the algae outbreak will be (thats the theory at least).

Personally, I turn my lights on right away, I like to see my tank So its up to you.

 

[brandon429]

agreed LOC that's my take as well. get some good starter corals, caulastrea candy canes and some easy lps will do fine, they can be target fed to make up for lack of rock maturity. go easy on that lighting, too bright lighting at the start is everyone's initial algae outbreak that lasts 5 months.

side offer that comes from about 500 logged pages of doing algae correction work in hundreds of tanks:

don't look at your rock scape as permanently submerged where you test for nitrate and phosphate repeatedly, make adjustments, to try and starve algae. that's what the masses do, it's why I have 500 + pages of algae correction work where we never do that to end their cycle of invasion

doing that method kills initial target X, then in its wake of dead and decaying mass littered about a new target/usually cyano and dinos capitalizes and a new set of tests+ dosers are added, feed is restricted, corals bleach or get entangled in a monthslong mess to the degree many reefers spend the first two years hating their system, I have it on file if wanted to see.


what to do to be opposite of the invaded masses: see your reef/rocks as modular and about to be removed for external cleaning pretty often. Choosing to begin with no coralline, no benthic lifeform rock has a price and most people feel that means they have to be invaded and on the doser wheel of hope for the next 24 months

no, that's not the price. your system can be different right off the bat.

when you see algae growing on a rock, it should be there. there's nothing to exclude it or eat it off the rocks (don't think adding 10 snails will fix it, I added zero snails in all my repair threads) snails and CUC are a disease vector and they rarely work. everyone who presents for correction help already has them, plus the invasion in place.

Your algae will start on a rock because there's no matched grazers (takes luck and time to discern) and because you shined light-where corals grow so does algae. It does not mean you have nitrate and phosphate issues, it means your tank is fine and doing what we expect. When you see algae on a rock, lift that rock out, set on your counter, get a knife not a brush, and metal scrape the algae off digging a bit roughly to dislodge it. use the tip of the knife if the algae abuts a costly coral you've glued in place. this is reef dentistry, handle rocks like teeth at a dentist.

put a dab of peroxide on the *cleaned* spot where algae used to be, after you scraped it. let sit 2 mins in the air to burn some leftover cells you can't see, set the rock back in the tank.

when you removed that rock(s) do a small 2 gallon detritus vacuum for the waste up under the rock you will see when you lift it out: this is your algae feed you're removing/detritus.

what the masses do is leave that in their system then entire time, fighting invasion cycle after invasion over and over. they never do removal cleaning: they hold course with rocks left alone until the tank dies if that's what it takes.

fight to be opposite of the masses in your new system, you can keep it clean manually until you luck or intuit a way to not need reef dentistry. My strongest recommend is don't test for, nor respond to nitrate and phosphate for the first half year and instead garden your reef manually and expect to be accessing that rock scape, not refusing to touch it.

*when bit of cyano or dinos grows on the sandbed, expected: the masses will leave it and apply chemi clean

what winners do is vacuum it right up, when the strand is 2 inches long, never allowing it to become nine strands at ten inches long across the whole tank.

**as you make these physical gardening changes, experiment with preventative changes such as less light, or less white spectrum, assess your topoff water cleanliness for RO and DI. Do not leave the mess inside the tank, take a guess at a remover, and wait to see if the growths magically disappear, they never do.

not trying to flood your post/am giving you info that will stop you hating reefing soon.

 

[ralquist]

agreed LOC that's my take as well. get some good starter corals, caulastrea candy canes and some easy lps will do fine, they can be target fed to make up for lack of rock maturity. go easy on that lighting, too bright lighting at the start is everyone's initial algae outbreak that lasts 5 months.

side offer that comes from about 500 logged pages of doing algae correction work in hundreds of tanks:

don't look at your rock scape as permanently submerged where you test for nitrate and phosphate repeatedly, make adjustments, to try and starve algae. that's what the masses do, it's why I have 500 + pages of algae correction work where we never do that to end their cycle of invasion

doing that method kills initial target X, then in its wake of dead and decaying mass littered about a new target/usually cyano and dinos capitalizes and a new set of tests+ dosers are added, feed is restricted, corals bleach or get entangled in a monthslong mess to the degree many reefers spend the first two years hating their system, I have it on file if wanted to see.


what to do to be opposite of the invaded masses: see your reef/rocks as modular and about to be removed for external cleaning pretty often. Choosing to begin with no coralline, no benthic lifeform rock has a price and most people feel that means they have to be invaded and on the doser wheel of hope for the next 24 months

no, that's not the price. your system can be different right off the bat.

when you see algae growing on a rock, it should be there. there's nothing to exclude it or eat it off the rocks (don't think adding 10 snails will fix it, I added zero snails in all my repair threads) snails and CUC are a disease vector and they rarely work. everyone who presents for correction help already has them, plus the invasion in place.

Your algae will start on a rock because there's no matched grazers (takes luck and time to discern) and because you shined light-where corals grow so does algae. It does not mean you have nitrate and phosphate issues, it means your tank is fine and doing what we expect. When you see algae on a rock, lift that rock out, set on your counter, get a knife not a brush, and metal scrape the algae off digging a bit roughly to dislodge it. use the tip of the knife if the algae abuts a costly coral you've glued in place. this is reef dentistry, handle rocks like teeth at a dentist.

put a dab of peroxide on the *cleaned* spot where algae used to be, after you scraped it. let sit 2 mins in the air to burn some leftover cells you can't see, set the rock back in the tank.

when you removed that rock(s) do a small 2 gallon detritus vacuum for the waste up under the rock you will see when you lift it out: this is your algae feed you're removing/detritus.

what the masses do is leave that in their system then entire time, fighting invasion cycle after invasion over and over. they never do removal cleaning: they hold course with rocks left alone until the tank dies if that's what it takes.

fight to be opposite of the masses in your new system, you can keep it clean manually until you luck or intuit a way to not need reef dentistry. My strongest recommend is don't test for, nor respond to nitrate and phosphate for the first half year and instead garden your reef manually and expect to be accessing that rock scape, not refusing to touch it.

*when bit of cyano or dinos grows on the sandbed, expected: the masses will leave it and apply chemi clean

what winners do is vacuum it right up, when the strand is 2 inches long, never allowing it to become nine strands at ten inches long across the whole tank.

**as you make these physical gardening changes, experiment with preventative changes such as less light, or less white spectrum, assess your topoff water cleanliness for RO and DI. Do not leave the mess inside the tank, take a guess at a remover, and wait to see if the growths magically disappear, they never do.

not trying to flood your post/am giving you info that will stop you hating reefing soon.

Flood away! I will take all I can get, I will for sure follow your algae/gardening regiment. I'll take my time ramping up the lights if at all until a some hardy coral is in.
Forgot to add I do have a jar of Eco pods from Algae barn ready to go, from other things I've read this will help move the tank in the right direction.

 

[brandon429]

I wish I had some years of manually gardening my nano to keep it absolutely perfect slowly stripped out some of the good bugs. They're helpful in every way possible.

 

[Screwgunner]

Yep 8 hours of light for corals at lest . Keep phosphates down and nitrates and you will be fine.

 

[Akreefnewguy]

if no corals in the tank, then the light is for our convenience and pleasure, the fish don't need it.

The new idea in reefing is to keep the lights off for the first month or two or three, give the system a chance to develop bacteria, which will help fight off a huge algae outbreak. The algae is coming no matter what, but the longer the lights are off, the less the algae outbreak will be (thats the theory at least).

Personally, I turn my lights on right away, I like to see my tank So its up to you.

I turned my light on on week 2 one week after my skip cycle. I ended up ith a quarter inch green hair algae on a few rocks and a little diatomaceous on the sand. 1 turbo snail, 2 astr snails,2 red leg hermits , 1 skunk shrimp and a emerald crab. Needless to say algae was gone in a few days now what develops daily gets eating nightly and barley noticeable during the day

 

[ralquist]

Waters finally ready!
Last test before the 50% water change