OFF THE CHARTS! More Calcium and Magnesium than I know what to do with!

[Rob1208]

I'm starting to understand why most new reefers never make it past the first year. It's been a rough few weeks. I tried to lower our phosphates from 0.20 with Phospate-E and killed a few fish in the process. It was my fault, which sucks, but at least I learned from it.

Now we're learning that our Calcium and Magnesium are off the charts high!
Using the Red Sea Calcium test we determined that we are sitting at about 720ppm. Yikes. I actually called the place I bought the test from and said I got a bum test kit and had them send out another one. This was before I used the Salifert Mag test. I did it three times and the dang sample never turned blue. I followed the instructions and even watched a video to make sure it wasn't user error. I put in the entire vial of Mag2 into the 2ml of tank water with 5 drops of Mag1. It never turned blue.

Everything else on my tank is fine.

Salinity 1.025
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrate 1ppm
Ph 8.5
dKH 8.6
Phospates .11 - still a bit high and creeping up... not sure why

The tank specs:
90-gallon, Sump w/ refugium (chaeto) and skimmer
4 fish (2 clowns, 1 Royal Gramma Basslet, 1 Orange Spotted Blenny) - These guys all survived the Great Lanthanum Chloride Purge (GLCP) of 2023
Lost 2 fish to the GLCP (yellow tang and Cardinalfish).

Could it be the salt I'm using? I've been using Red Sea Coral Pro because I plan to have corals, but we don't have any yet. Could the salt parameters be causing the build up?

I'm at a bit of a loss here. Any guidance would be welcomed. Thanks!

 

[michael giordano]

Get ride of that salt, buy one with lower levels. Do three over the course of a month 20 gallon water changes with the new salt. And watch the numbers steadily go down. Also take a sample of water to the aquarium shop near you and have them confirm your levels. Also don’t use chemicals to lower phosphate, cut your fish feeding down to every other day and feed like dead frozen mysid you have thawed out and cleaned and strained with ro di water. Best way to do that is run water over the mysid shrimp in your fish next ( the that has been cleaned well not to have copper or any other chemical on the net) then dump the mysid shrimp in the tank. Let the tank settle out, run it’s course and go slow.

 

[gbroadbridge]

I'm starting to understand why most new reefers never make it past the first year. It's been a rough few weeks. I tried to lower our phosphates from 0.20 with Phospate-E and killed a few fish in the process. It was my fault, which sucks, but at least I learned from it.

Now we're learning that our Calcium and Magnesium are off the charts high!
Using the Red Sea Calcium test we determined that we are sitting at about 720ppm. Yikes. I actually called the place I bought the test from and said I got a bum test kit and had them send out another one. This was before I used the Salifert Mag test. I did it three times and the dang sample never turned blue. I followed the instructions and even watched a video to make sure it wasn't user error. I put in the entire vial of Mag2 into the 2ml of tank water with 5 drops of Mag1. It never turned blue.

Everything else on my tank is fine.

Salinity 1.025
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrate 1ppm
Ph 8.5
dKH 8.6
Phospates .11 - still a bit high and creeping up... not sure why

The tank specs:
90-gallon, Sump w/ refugium (chaeto) and skimmer
4 fish (2 clowns, 1 Royal Gramma Basslet, 1 Orange Spotted Blenny) - These guys all survived the Great Lanthanum Chloride Purge (GLCP) of 2023
Lost 2 fish to the GLCP (yellow tang and Cardinalfish).

Could it be the salt I'm using? I've been using Red Sea Coral Pro because I plan to have corals, but we don't have any yet. Could the salt parameters be causing the build up?

I'm at a bit of a loss here. Any guidance would be welcomed. Thanks!

Where are you getting your salt water from?

If you're mixing your own are you starting with RODI water?

 

[Rob1208]

Get ride of that salt, buy one with lower levels. Do three over the course of a month 20 gallon water changes with the new salt. And watch the numbers steadily go down. Also take a sample of water to the aquarium shop near you and have them confirm your levels. Also don’t use chemicals to lower phosphate, cut your fish feeding down to every other day and feed like dead frozen mysid you have thawed out and cleaned and strained with ro di water. Best way to do that is run water over the mysid shrimp in your fish next ( the that has been cleaned well not to have copper or any other chemical on the net) then dump the mysid shrimp in the tank. Let the tank settle out, run it’s course and go slow.

There's a lot to chew on here. Thanks for the tip on the mysis. I'll never use any chemical again without doing a metric ton of research. I just never thought a product like that could be that lethal without any warnings on the package. I know it was my fault, but man, there should be a starburst on the package with a big warning in it.

I was leaning that way with the salt idea. Of course I just bought a 200 gallon sack of the salt 3 days ago. Good times. Any thoughts on mixing salts? Mix the Coral Pro with something basic like IO to balance things out?

 

[Rob1208]

Where are you getting your salt water from?

If you're mixing your own are you starting with RODI water?

Yep, mixing on my own and making my own RODI. I haven't tested the RODI water for Calcium or Magnesium yet, but I plan on doing that in the next few days. Just haven't had the time. I've tested it for phosphates already and it came back clean.

 

[GARRIGA]

I’d have an LFS test the water before assuming further. Not sure at proper specific gravity that calcium can be that high with RODI.

 

[Rob1208]

I’d have an LFS test the water before assuming further. Not sure at proper specific gravity that calcium can be that high with RODI.

Not sure why, but I never thought about having my LFS test my water. Thanks!

 

[gbroadbridge]

Yep, mixing on my own and making my own RODI. I haven't tested the RODI water for Calcium or Magnesium yet, but I plan on doing that in the next few days. Just haven't had the time. I've tested it for phosphates already and it came back clean.

Okay.

Keep in mind that most tests, like Phosphate, Nitrate, Calcium and Mag are only suitable for salt water.
You can't use them to test your RODI water as they will give nonsense results.

So if you mix a fresh batch of salt water, following the mixing instructions to the advertised salinity, what are the tested results?
Remember to mix a new bucket of salt well by rolling it around on the floor for a while, as salt settles over time.

The results should be close to what's written on the packaging.

If not, there must be some testing error, get it tested by an LFS that does not use API test kits.

It is extremely rare for salt batches to be faulty, despite what you may have heard.

 

[gbroadbridge]

I was leaning that way with the salt idea. Of course I just bought a 200 gallon sack of the salt 3 days ago. Good times. Any thoughts on mixing salts? Mix the Coral Pro with something basic like IO to balance things out?

I wouldn't toss a perfectly good bag of salt, and I wouldn't mix it with other salts.
I'd make sure the bag/bucket is well mixed by tossing it around a bit and then see how it mixes up.

I'm not a fan of high Alk salt mixes, but in your position, I'd use it up and then swap over to red sea blue bucket when you finish that one.

The current Ca/Mg levels (if they are high) are unlikely to cause any issues for fish/coral.

 

[biom]

1. Double check salinity.
2. make fresh salt water and test for calcium and if still have doubts go to
3. LFS to test water.

I don’t think it’s the salt Red Sea is very good only in Pro alk is a bit high for my taste but still ok.

magnesium test it probably not working because of elevated calcium levels it needs to precipitate calcium first.

What was the problem with lantanium did you overdose ?

 

[taricha]

You can make a salinity standard to mark your hydrometer, after that you'll have an accurate salinity device.
Randy Article
"Interpolating between these data points suggests that a solution of 3.714 weight percent sodium chloride has the same specific gravity (and density) as S=35 seawater, and can be used as an appropriate specific gravity standard (Table 5). For most purposes, 3.7 weight percent is accurate enough....
To produce a 3.714 weight percent sodium chloride solution, dissolve 1 teaspoon (6.20 grams) of Morton's Iodized Salt in 161 mL (161 g) of freshwater (making a total volume of about 163 mL after dissolution of the salt). This solution can be scaled up as desired."

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Another step to take is get a different brand of salt, and test it for calcium. If it reads high as well, then the error is either high salinity, or a salt/source water issue, or test error.

Are you monitoring the TDS of your RO/DI water? If it's less than a few ppm TDS, the RO/DI is not providing enough calcium to throw off a batch of new salt water.

 

[Rob1208]

Okay.

Keep in mind that most tests, like Phosphate, Nitrate, Calcium and Mag are only suitable for salt water.
You can't use them to test your RODI water as they will give nonsense results.

So if you mix a fresh batch of salt water, following the mixing instructions to the advertised salinity, what are the tested results?
Remember to mix a new bucket of salt well by rolling it around on the floor for a while, as salt settles over time.

The results should be close to what's written on the packaging.

If not, there must be some testing error, get it tested by an LFS that does not use API test kits.

It is extremely rare for salt batches to be faulty, despite what you may have heard.

Thanks.

By "RODI water" I was referring to the water after being mixed with salt. I didn't make that very clear.

My mixing process it like this: I mix in a 35 gallon brute using 2 powerheads to do the mixing. I let the powerheads do their thing for and hour or two and get in there to mix any salt that collects at the bottom. I check the salinity along the way and adjust accordingly.

That said, I haven't tested that water for Calcium and Mag yet. I'm hoping to do so today. Also bringing some water to my LFS over the weekend for testing. So hopefully I'll have some direction over the next few days.

 

[Rob1208]

1. Double check salinity.
2. make fresh salt water and test for calcium and if still have doubts go to
3. LFS to test water.

I don’t think it’s the salt Red Sea is very good only in Pro alk is a bit high for my taste but still ok.

magnesium test it probably not working because of elevated calcium levels it needs to precipitate calcium first.

What was the problem with lantanium did you overdose ?

I check the salinity often and it's always at 1.025. Steps 2 and 3 are my exact plan, so I'm glad to know it's the right track.

With the lantaniun bid basically everything wrong.

 

[GARRIGA]

Another step to take is get a different brand of salt, and test it for calcium. If it reads high as well, then the error is either high salinity, or a salt/source water issue, or test error.

Are you monitoring the TDS of your RO/DI water? If it's less than a few ppm TDS, the RO/DI is not providing enough calcium to throw off a batch of new salt water.

Was thinking the same thing when on salinity. Even if salt was 500 ppm at 35 ppt then getting 700 would mean that ppt around 40% higher as I believe it is linear in nature.

Although buying a separate test kit might be cheaper than salt unless buying a five gallon portion.

BTW, can calcium get that high without a similar rise in magnesium? Thought it would just precipitate out.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I check the salinity often and it's always at 1.025. Steps 2 and 3 are my exact plan, so I'm glad to know it's the right track.

Running the same test over and over isn't what folks mean by double checking. It's to confirm the salintiy some other way, or at the very least, check the accuracy of your salinity measuring device.

 

[Rob1208]

Running the same test over and over isn't what folks mean by double checking. It's to confirm the salintiy some other way, or at the very least, check the accuracy of your salinity measuring device.

I hear ya. I calibrate the refractometer often and recently bought a digital backup. They both read 1.025

 

[CoralsAnonymous]

I hear ya. I calibrate the refractometer often and recently bought a digital backup. They both read 1.025

If you don't mind sharing, what is the brand of the digital one? We use Hanna and like all salinity checkers, they should be regularly calibrated too, which I imagine you are doing as well.