OK am opinionated but it annoys the heck out of me.

[atoll]

I think there's a distinction to be made between what is 'normal' in a reef tank and what is natural. In addition, neither of those things is necessarily a good thing for the welfare of your fish/coral/whatever.

I belive a clownfish is happiest in it's natural associated anemone and ascsuch is a healthier in body and mind due ainly to less stress.

It's not natural for fish to live in an environment essentially free of predators, but it's likely a good thing and would be considered normal in the hobby. This is not natural, but is normal and likely good for the fish's wellbeing.

There are acceptions the lack of a predator being possibly the only one

It is normal, or common at least, in the hobby for fish to be kept without their natural habitats. Wrasse without sand, or without rock rubble to dive in and out of. This is likely bad for the fish's wellbeing.

Common but not natural and yes I believe depremental to the wellbeing of the fish.

In the context of the environment, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable that clowns can be content and happy without an anemone.

its at this point we disagree. The need forcan anemone is built into the genetics of the fish and I believe a clown with its host anemone is healthier in body and mind.

The function of an anemone being to protect the clowns and make them feel safe from predators. Captive bred clowns that have never even known any such danger, and even wild caught clowns don't face it in the reef tank environment. Maybe they're happy withoutne?

Again within the generics of the fish unless it has somehow been bred out of them through constant selective breeding. I guess that's possible over continous breeding.

Additionally, when someone comments that a clownfish's weird behaviour (in comparison to other fish) is normal, they are trying to express to the person asking the question that their fish isn't currently undergoing anything particularly different to most others in the hobby.

agreed and is what I believe I more or less stated in my origional post.

I think generally this behaviour is not indicative of any immediate issues that will cause immediate harm or death to the fish.

Not immediate harm but long term psychological at least and in turn physically. Stress is a big killer in this hobby and the more wevdo to limit it the better forvthe overhaul health of the fish.

Finally, I'm far from a marine biologist, but my experience from encounters with clowns in the wild is that they do exhibit at least some of the weird behaviours there too.

what weird behaviours as I have dived and snorkeled many times and can't recall any behaviour that I could consider weird. Swimming up to my mask warding me off was observed on a number of occasions but that would be natural given the fish would probably connsider me a threat.

I think there's a distinction to be made between what is 'normal' in a reef tank and what is natural. In addition, neither of those things is necessarily a good thing for the welfare of your fish/coral/whatever.

It's not natural for fish to live in an environment essentially free of predators, but it's likely a good thing and would be considered normal in the hobby. This is not natural, but is normal and likely good for the fish's wellbeing.

It is normal, or common at least, in the hobby for fish to be kept without their natural habitats. Wrasse without sand, or without rock rubble to dive in and out of. This is likely bad for the fish's wellbeing.

In the context of the environment, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable that clowns can be content and happy without an anemone. The function of an anemone being to protect the clowns and make them feel safe from predators. Captive bred clowns that have never even known any such danger, and even wild caught clowns don't face it in the reef tank environment. Maybe they're happy without one?

It is normal and natural for humans to live in shelter, but if we could somehow remove the main reasons we do that, maybe we'd all sleep out in our yards under the stars instead.

Additionally, when someone comments that a clownfish's weird behaviour (in comparison to other fish) is normal, they are trying to express to the person asking the question that their fish isn't currently undergoing anything particularly different to most others in the hobby. I think generally this behaviour is not indicative of any immediate issues that will cause immediate harm or death to the fish.

Finally, I'm far from a marine biologist, but my experience from encounters with clowns in the wild is that they do exhibit at least some of the weird behaviours there too.

 

[bvanfish]

Depends on the species of clown however, I would suggest with a25 gallon it you shouldn't try a magnifica. Common clowns are only have a couple of natural anemones they host in. Magnificas and Stoicactus types. There is a list of clown species withbthe nems they are most associated with.

What Anemones Are Good for Clownfish?

Anemones and clownfish have a symbiotic relationship. If you own clownfish, you may want to pair them. Clownfish aren’t the easiest to raise, so you […]

www.justfishkeeping.com

I have a ocellaris I believe so looks like
Magnificent, Giant Carpet, so out of luck for a 25 hahah. Hopefully they will take to another type

 

[OrionN]

When I write “the behavior or the look is normal” I actually mean that it is not due to any physical injury or illness.
I am sorry if it annoys some people.

it is easier to says “that behavior is normal IMO” than “that behavior is not due to this or that … … …”

 

[Dom]

There is a reason they are called clown fish. And it is correct to call it "normal behavior" because the behavior is normal for clown fish in captivity.

 

[Rmckoy]

As a large percentage of clownfish are now captive bred . Do they ever see a anemone ?
They will spawn without a anemone present

 

[GARRIGA]

I live in a house. Not a cave. Nothing natural about how we do things today but we adjust and so do fish and this is now natural to us yet living in cave no longer is and so will it to fish and especially those born in a box of water. That's my opinion for what it's worth. Which isn't likely much to others but I said it anyway...

 

[OrionN]

I away wanted to reproduce the condition in our tank as natural as it can be and try to keep breeding units of animals in our tank. I love to observe courtship behavior of the fishes. If we can bring our fishes into breeding condition, and get them to spawn, then we can say that we are successfully keep that species of fish.
I alway keep a NATURAL host anemone for the clowfish that I keep.
Fish that can be keep in aquarium as breeding units

 

[doubleshot00]

I didn’t read the the whole thing but putting fish in a confined apace and expecting everyone to get along is laughable. Choose your fish wisely is the correct answer here.

If you want a powder blue/six line get a powder blue/six line but understand he’s going to be a jerk one day.

My clowns name is Brutus. She doesn’t need an anemone to feel safe. And i hate clowns now because of her. Ill necer own one again like damsels.

Im a complete NEWB and know this.

 

[ZoWhat]

@atoll

I completely understand you're irritated by ppl and their comments....

I would say your frustration is pretty normal behavior for the situation

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

No doubt clownfish have an affinity to seak out an anemone. However artificially creating that symbiotic relationship doesn't mean that the clowns and anemone are happier.

I personally will never again have an anemone in my tank, but I have a pair of clowns. They've found their spot in the tank, and would say they're perfectly content. In fact I think the better way to gauge if clowns are happy and healthy is by their breeding habits. And when they lay eggs like clock work, one shouldn't worry about the idea of adding a host for the little guys.

 

[atoll]

No doubt clownfish have an affinity to seak out an anemone. However artificially creating that symbiotic relationship doesn't mean that the clowns and anemone are happier.

I personally will never again have an anemone in my tank, but I have a pair of clowns. They've found their spot in the tank, and would say they're perfectly content. In fact I think the better way to gauge if clowns are happy and healthy is by their breeding habits. And when they lay eggs like clock work, one shouldn't worry about the idea of adding a host for the little guys.

Simple question then. Do you think if you put an appropriate anemone in their tank the clowns would prefer that to "their spot"?

 

[atoll]

@atoll

I completely understand you're irritated by ppl and their comments....

Only by comments that I deem to be incorrect like with clowns hiding in the corner of a tank or a fish that constantly swims along the front glass like a caged tiger. I don't see anything natural in that behaviour. My fish don't do such things.

I would say your frustration is pretty normal behavior for the situation

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Simple question then. Do you think if you put an appropriate anemone in their tank the clowns would prefer that to "their spot"?

I can't answer that unless I did it. And of course, I'm of the opinion that anemones are the devil. Hehe

We're attaching human traits to fish. When in reality we don't know what they're thinking, or even if they think in terms of how we understand thinking to be.

I say happiness is laying eggs every few weeks. But that's assuming that they know anything more than fulfilling their biological role.

 

[PlumbTuckered]

You know what annoys the heck out of me? When people like you post with condemnation.

 

[atoll]

I can't answer that unless I did it. And of course, I'm of the opinion that anemones are the devil. Hehe

We're attaching human traits to fish. When in reality we don't know what they're thinking, or even if they think in terms of how we understand thinking to be.

I say happiness is laying eggs every few weeks. But that's assuming that they know anything more than fulfilling their biological role.

I would say happiness is behaving in a way they are genetically inherent and that isn't held up in the corner of a tank. I believe when a fish does such a thing its making the best of what it has which in reality is much at all.

 

[atoll]

You know what annoys the heck out of me? When people like you post with condemnation.

That's fine, you could start a thread about such.
However, Iike I said I make no apologies for rattling somebody's cage. I quite expected some to be so but then I only have the welfare of the fish I keep at heart and to explain why I believe what I do. Thank you for your opinion even if its nothing to do with this thread. Have a good day.

 

[Paul B]

Atoll my friend, I don't think you are more opinionated than me. I am very opinionated but I also don't particularly like clownfish. I don't like them in tanks (especially mine) and I don't care to see them when I dive. I feel they are to common and they never die.

To kill them you have to run them over twice with a school bus filled with Sumo wrestlers on their way back from a hot dog eating contest.

I got a fireclown about 28 or 30 years ago because as a baby I thought it was a hawkfish. It is not. It is a red devil. A few years later I stupidly got another one and I still have both of them.

Over the years they have hosted beer bottles, hammers, (real hammers from a hardware store, not the coral) parts from cars and a variety of other things.

Now they host (and spawn in ) a Grand Marnier bottle but they will spawn in anything made of atoms.
I am not a big fan of them, but then again I am also not a big fan of tangs because they also are very common and the most frequently seen fish on a reef.

There are literally billions of them everywhere.

I once had a remora and to keep it happy I added a Great White Shark for him to stick to.
Eventually I gave the remora to the New York aquarium as I did with the shark because it was difficult and expensive to get enough accountants to feed him.

 

[StatelineReefer]

Atoll my friend, I don't think you are more opinionated than me. I am very opinionated but I also don't particularly like clownfish. I don't like them in tanks (especially mine) and I don't care to see them when I dive. I feel they are to common and they never die.

To kill them you have to run them over twice with a school bus filled with Sumo wrestlers on their way back from a hot dog eating contest.

I got a fireclown about 28 or 30 years ago because as a baby I thought it was a hawkfish. It is not. It is a red devil. A few years later I stupidly got another one and I still have both of them.

Over the years they have hosted beer bottles, hammers, (real hammers from a hardware store, not the coral) parts from cars and a variety of other things.

Now they host (and spawn in ) a Grand Marnier bottle but they will spawn in anything made of atoms.
I am not a big fan of them, but then again I am also not a big fan of tangs because they also are very common and the most frequently seen fish on a reef.

There are literally billions of them everywhere.

I once had a remora and to keep it happy I added a Great White Shark for him to stick to.
Eventually I gave the remora to the New York aquarium as I did with the shark because it was difficult and expensive to get enough accountants to feed him.

When you run out of accountants, there's always personal injury lawyers.... ahh the irony runs thick with that one

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

However, Iike I said I make no apologies for rattling somebody's cage.

If someone gets rattled over a complete strangers rant, then maybe reading posts aren't conducive to a happy life... see what I did there?? Hehe

If the crazy hair brain rants of a guy like Paul doesn't rattle your cage, I think you're safe to continue reading posts. He should be the litmus test.

 

[atoll]

Atoll my friend, I don't think you are more opinionated than me. I am very opinionated but I also don't particularly like clownfish. I don't like them in tanks (especially mine) and I don't care to see them when I dive. I feel they are to common and they never die.

To kill them you have to run them over twice with a school bus filled with Sumo wrestlers on their way back from a hot dog eating contest.

I got a fireclown about 28 or 30 years ago because as a baby I thought it was a hawkfish. It is not. It is a red devil. A few years later I stupidly got another one and I still have both of them.

Over the years they have hosted beer bottles, hammers, (real hammers from a hardware store, not the coral) parts from cars and a variety of other things.

Now they host (and spawn in ) a Grand Marnier bottle but they will spawn in anything made of atoms.
I am not a big fan of them, but then again I am also not a big fan of tangs because they also are very common and the most frequently seen fish on a reef.

There are literally billions of them everywhere.

I once had a remora and to keep it happy I added a Great White Shark for him to stick to.
Eventually I gave the remora to the New York aquarium as I did with the shark because it was difficult and expensive to get enough accountants to feed him.

Of course Paul, not everybody will like the same fish, that is never a problem at all. I am also not a big fan of tangs although I have a small mimic tang that is there to do a job and that is to graze on algae.

I also have a copperband a lovely fish but the most stupid it eats any Aps that get into my tank however. Most of my fish are in pairs or numbers as found on the reef, I find them much more interesting when kept that way.

As in your tank, most my fish spawn after all its what fish do some even not in the best of conditions provided for them. I consider quality food more important than say high nitrate etc.

We like what we like there is no denighing that but we must provide the best we can for them while in our charge. Some may even suggest that's just an opinion.