Opinion piece: The unethical practice of live sales during a global Pandemic

ARE LIVE SALES UNETHICAL?

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 6.3%
  • No

    Votes: 60 75.9%
  • Probably

    Votes: 10 12.7%
  • Not sure

    Votes: 4 5.1%

  • Total voters
    79

huttyhawk

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Intro:

For those of you that know me, you already know I’ve taken a very public stance on the business ethics of doing live sales, especially now during this global pandemic. For those that don’t know me, my background is in Economics and I have been previously published in the American economist.

Summary:

In my opinion live sales are an unethical and predatory sales practice that only give the consumer seconds to decide on major purchasing decisions. Some feel that there is nothing wrong with this and that it’s all in good “fun”. To others that may or may not suffer from addictive personalities, live sales are something altogether different. A consumer may feel a “rush” during their first live sale experience. This rush overrides all normalcy of purchasing decision making. Where as before an informed consumer can at their own leisure make informed purchasing decision based on their budget and needs. They have all the time in the world to make informed purchasing decisions.

However during live sales, everything is different and turned upside down for the consumer. You are literally in a bizarro world. You don’t know what’s going to be sold next. You don’t know anything really and that’s EXACTLY by design. You only have seconds to decide wether or not to purchase something. With rare corals selling for exuberant amount of money, consumers are forced out of their normal purchasing decision making process and forced into this rushed all sales are final market place. You literally have a second or two to decide to make a purchase. Does that seem normal to you? Does that seem ethical? Where else in the world do you see this type of business practice? Do you see people selling houses or cars this way? No. You don’t.

Question: What’s the real reason coral businesses do live sales?

Answer: Vendors that practice this unethical and predatory sales practice don’t care about you. They only care about getting your money. I understand that this is an unpopular Opinion and may upset vendors and their cult like following.

Question: Are you being taken advantage of if you buy in a live sale?

Answer: Yes, Potentially… You need to evaluate that for yourself but you need to understand as a consumer that what is being done to you is wrong. You need to be aware that you may be being taken advantage of. The practice of live sales during normal times is bad enough but to engage in them during a global pandemic should be publicly chastised.


Going forward:
Thanks to the amazing Reef2reef website and community we have a record of all vendors that knowingly choose to engage in this unethical business practice. This is our industries black swan event. Stay safe my fellow reefers.
 

homer1475

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No one says anything about all the casinos popping up though, their perfectly fine, and only attract addictive personalities.

Why do vendors due live sales? To make money, why else? And since were all shut in our homes, sounds like a great way for people who would normally go to an LFS for a coral, can get it touch free, and by not leaving their homes.

And no one forces anyone to participate, its your choice to or not.

And while you may find it unethical in this global pandemic, I find it a way for vendors to make money so they don't have to close up shop, and a way for people to get the corals they want.

You're opinion and your certainly entitled to it, but I think you'll find most people around here do not agree with you.
 
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huttyhawk

huttyhawk

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revhtree

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I voted no.

I also added your poll to this thread.
 

Arthacker87

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I think it can go either way. But as consumers, isnt it our responsibility to be knowledgable about what we intend to purchase? Know your corals and what prices (roughly) they can bring. Most people know and millie or acro are more expensive than a xenia coral lol. I think unethical would be selling corals knowing they will die or not do well and you dont care. Selling corals fast for a price then can get is just part of it.
 

LivinTheSwreefLife

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I agree that the live sale format encourages people to spend before they can really think it through. But honestly, they're usually WYSIWYG pieces that are in extremely high demand. If not for the live sale, they'd be snatched up by whichever lucky person stumbled on them on the vendor site first. That doesn't seem like a good system either... Better that people who are ready to purchase have a heads up.
 

Trylobyte

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I voted no, for a couple reasons. In essence it's the same as clicking "notify me when in stock" such as LiveAquaria does, but some people don't check their e-mail's regularly enough to participate before that piece could be out of stock again. At least in this scenario, everyone knows the sale will begin at a certain time, and has equal footing to try and acquire that piece.
 

PGT253

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IMHO:
1. You are not forced to participate.
2. You know your financial stand prior to livesales. Vendors don't.
2. Even if you have 1-2 seconds to think, that should be enough to time know if you can financially afford it.
3. Most live sales offer discounted prices. Some high, some low, but still discounts.
4. Comparing hundreds of dollars of corals purchases to hundred thousands dollars of houses purchases is weird!
 

Oldreefer44

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I also voted no because "unethical", to me, is a synonym for dishonest and I'm not ready to go that far. Misleading......maybe. At one time I did participate in live sales however after doing some research I was able to determine that most of the "deals" were not necessarily any better than what could be found at another vendor. Yes there are a few great deals, "what a retailer would call "loss leaders". but most are not. What I dislike the most is that coral vendors have seemingly come to rely on live sales as a staple of doing business. It is probably much easier for them to concentrate all their resources into one short period of time versus stretching them out over the rest of the week or month. If they didn't work for the sellers they wouldn't all be lining up to do them.
 

zoomonster

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I kind of agree with your arguments but not necessarily the "during the pandemic part". Its a personal and conscious choice to participate, at anytime, and I stopped doing live sales some time ago. To me its just driving the frenzy of gotta have the overpriced coral and allows vendors to fuel the frenzy with hurry, hurry before someone else grabs it with little forethought. Not to mention someone is always having a live sale and unless you have nothing better to do than sit at the computer 24hrs or more with the spaced updates its a major hassle. Lets face it this is a very addicting hobby and those with OCD and addictive personalities are especially going to get sucked in. Don't get me wrong... "Hi, my name is Jim and I'm a reefaholic". I make good money (well not at the moment thanks to Covid) but I spend a lot on reefing. Like the old saying "the more you make the more you spend". I guarantee this hobby has killed more than a couple marriages.

Me personally I stick with online website sales (AquaSD getting my money lately) and eBay for certain major vendors. Even with eBay its a hassle having to ride through often 2-4hrs spacing between auction closes. Its hard enough keeping up with weekly updates from preferred vendors.
 

Hermie

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I'm always pro consumer and live sales IMO are not pro consumer. They are pro business. Consumers, IMO, should get as much information as reasonable at the time of purchase. That includes, "what will be sold next, for what price, etc" so that the Consumer can make an informed decision.

Besides the hiding of information, the health concerns are also a factor in my vote, enabling addictive behaviors. Internet/software/social media also engage in this behavior albeit with different tactics etc.
 

malacoda

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At the end the day, you are responsible for yourself. No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to buy.

If you feel rushed or confused. Watch what takes place without making purchase for a few sales, then participate in the next one after you've become more informed and familiar with it. There sales every single weekend so you won't miss out on anything by watching and learning a bit first.

If you don't like it in general, don't participate at all. If enough people don't like it and don't participate, they'll fade away due to lack of profit or interest.

If you have and addiction problem, get help. In general, people should be, and are willing to help if you reach out. Same as with alcohol, gambling, or shopping. I wouldn't even be surprised if some vendors would even help by blocking you from purchasing if you explained your situation and asked them too. However the world at large can assume or act as if anyone they encounter might have an addiction problem. If it did, two things would happen: 1) for every 1 person that was prevented from facing an addiction trigger, hundreds of thousand of people would be denied joy and/or freedom and 2) commerce in general would crash to a halt.

I could go on, but ... there are much bigger things in life to worry about and I think I've said my piece. My two cents is on the table, you all can carry on the debate. Cheers!
 

Bossman

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I don't see anything wrong at all with live sales in a pandemic or not. Actually, during the pandemic I think it's great. It gives the consumer another choice. It's just another marketing avenue. We can also buy coral online, from the LFS, at a swap shop or person to person. In any case, the buyer should be doing his due diligence. Caveat Emptor. The public is not so ignorant that we have protect them from the evil coral salesman.

Has anyone here been taken for a ride from a live sale? Spending their retirement money recklessly on corals....

My LFS had a sale a while back. They put together "mystery packs" of rock anemone. You were going to get 3 nems in each pack. There were different tiers of pricing. Top price gave you "premium" nems. If you paid less it was a crap shoot. Save 50% and maybe get premium or maybe not. I chose not. It was my choice as a consumer.

When is the next live sale? I'm going to give it a try. Maybe lessen some of life's stress from the pandemic.
 

Brian_68

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I think during this pandemic it is questionable at best. We are tying up precious delivery resources that some elderly / immune compromised may need plus we are putting the delivery drivers under more risk than they already are. As we see more and more cases in the critical areas like grocery workers this is more apparent that it is everywhere and many are not taking it as serious which could drag it out for many more weeks than it has to. Sure some still have the money and / or their job may not be affected but this will get much worse before better and a focus on essentials is in my opinion necessary. If we were not under this pandemic than it is your money to do as you please.
 

Brew12

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I have to agree that I don't like live sales. I don't think they are good, from an economic perspective, for the people who participate. I'm sure they work out well for some and others end up on the short end. I don't do live sales.
That said, I also know live sales are a form of entertainment for people. They enjoy the challenge of being the first to click on a coral. If a live sale can brighten a persons day for 8 to 12 hours and help them get away from all the stress in the world right now, I get it.
From an ethics perspective, I think it is just fine. Something can be bad economics and still be ethical. As long as all of the participants are willing, and no deceptions (like bait and switch) are being used, I have no issue with them for others to take part in.
 

Caseyoidae

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Not a fan of live sales but they are certainly money generators for vendors and forums. Always a good idea to keep a tab running in your head. tried one once and I had fun but ended up with quite a few corals I didn’t really want that badly. Much more selective these days. I guess they’renot so bad, many coral prices these days are pretty crazy to start with. But if someone can afford a Ferrari more power to them! I know I’m personally on a Subaru budget;)
 

HotRocks

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I voted No.

I don’t think they are unethical at all. I have participated in a couple and could never get anything I wanted anyway so I would just email the vendors from the sales and have them build me a pack to my liking and have it shipped.

Some obviously have better prices than others some are true sales some are not. I don’t think it’s really worth making a big stink about it. If you don’t like them simply don’t participate. It’s that easy.
 

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