Options for Combating a Dino Outbreak

[Patrick Cox]

I am not sure how this happened but I have been battling a Dino outbreak for several months. I am currently trying Silicate dosing and even though I see a lot of Diatoms in the sand, rock and glass, the microscope still shows a lot of Dinos in the samples I have taken from the sand...

I don't have any corals right now. I have lost the few that I had. Also, the tank is about 3 years old.

So, I was thinking about this step...

Removing most of my sand and replacing it with some Live sand from Tampa bay Saltwater. Any thoughts on if that would likely help me get rid of the Dino outbreak?

Thanks.

Tank is 5'x2'x22". ~150G total water volume. I have a good skimmer, roller mat, Algae scrubber and UV. My guess is I ran the UV too much and that created an environment for the Dinos to grow. it also started when I added a few pieces of Dry rock to my established aquarium.

 

[Tahoe61]

How deep is the sandbed?
Do you have a plan to remove and house the fish and inverts while you disturb the sandbed?
Adding TBS sand certainly is not going to hurt.

I would be interested in seeing the system's nitrate and phosphate values.

 

[Patrick Cox]

How deep is the sandbed?
Do you have a plan to remove and house the fish and inverts while you disturb the sandbed?
Adding TBS sand certainly is not going to hurt.

I would be interested in seeing the system's nitrate and phosphate values.

Nitrate and Phosphate were higher in the past. Something like this...

NO3: 32
PO4: 0.16

When the Dinos started, both got down close to zero.

I am dosing both right now and today they are...

NO3: 7.4
PO4: 0.03

Regarding the fish, do I need to move them before changing out the sand? Sandbed is ~ 1.5"

Thanks.

 

[EnterName]

How deep is the sandbed?
Do you have a plan to remove and house the fish and inverts while you disturb the sandbed?
Adding TBS sand certainly is not going to hurt.

I would be interested in seeing the system's nitrate and phosphate values.

Nitrate and Phosphate were higher in the past. Something like this...

NO3: 32
PO4: 0.16

When the Dinos started, both got down close to zero.

I am dosing both right now and today they are...

NO3: 7.4
PO4: 0.03

Regarding the fish, do I need to move them before changing out the sand? Sandbed is ~ 1.5"

Thanks.

If your nutrient levels were elevated before the issue began, and then they dropped to near undetectable levels you could try the very opposite of what most people suggest and get rid of nutrients. Apparently your dinoflagellate strain keeps draining nutrients so you dose to keep them up, but by doing so you are just providing more food. In nature dinoflagellates bloom when nutrient rich waters are carried into the ocean. To be fair what we call nutrient-rich in nature would be undetectable NO3 and very low PO4, but it's still worth a try and may help.

Remember: "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Try something else than dosing if it doesn't help. Add more silicates if the dino/diatom ratio is still off. You want significantly more diatoms than dinos. The mucus dinos produce can contain digestive enzymes which they can use to feed on larger organisms (including diatoms) so you need a lot of diatoms to choke some dinoflagellates out instead of just feeding them.

I'm not a fan of blackouts for various reasons, but if nothing else worked, try it. DinoM from FaunaMarin might also work. Some people use bottled bacteria which I'm not a fan of either, but you have nothing to lose, do you?

If you can, try ozone or at least H2O2 dosing. Change the flow, salt, or light a little and see how the tank behaves. (All very experimental approaches, but worth a try).

 

[Dan_P]

I am not sure how this happened but I have been battling a Dino outbreak for several months. I am currently trying Silicate dosing and even though I see a lot of Diatoms in the sand, rock and glass, the microscope still shows a lot of Dinos in the samples I have taken from the sand...

I don't have any corals right now. I have lost the few that I had. Also, the tank is about 3 years old.

So, I was thinking about this step...

Removing most of my sand and replacing it with some Live sand from Tampa bay Saltwater. Any thoughts on if that would likely help me get rid of the Dino outbreak?

Thanks.

Tank is 5'x2'x22". ~150G total water volume. I have a good skimmer, roller mat, Algae scrubber and UV. My guess is I ran the UV too much and that created an environment for the Dinos to grow. it also started when I added a few pieces of Dry rock to my established aquarium.

@EnterName may have some thoughts tomorrow (he is in Germany)

Edit: never mind

 

[EnterName]

I am not sure how this happened but I have been battling a Dino outbreak for several months. I am currently trying Silicate dosing and even though I see a lot of Diatoms in the sand, rock and glass, the microscope still shows a lot of Dinos in the samples I have taken from the sand...

I don't have any corals right now. I have lost the few that I had. Also, the tank is about 3 years old.

So, I was thinking about this step...

Removing most of my sand and replacing it with some Live sand from Tampa bay Saltwater. Any thoughts on if that would likely help me get rid of the Dino outbreak?

Thanks.

Tank is 5'x2'x22". ~150G total water volume. I have a good skimmer, roller mat, Algae scrubber and UV. My guess is I ran the UV too much and that created an environment for the Dinos to grow. it also started when I added a few pieces of Dry rock to my established aquarium.

@EnterName may have some thoughts tomorrow (he is in Germany)

I was faster than you and yes... I really need to go to bed... 02:00am and I have to work.

 

[Patrick Cox]

If your nutrient levels were elevated before the issue began, and then they dropped to near undetectable levels you could try the very opposite of what most people suggest and get rid of nutrients. Apparently your dinoflagellate strain keeps draining nutrients so you dose to keep them up, but by doing so you are just providing more food. In nature dinoflagellates bloom when nutrient rich waters are carried into the ocean. To be fair what we call nutrient-rich in nature would be undetectable NO3 and very low PO4, but it's still worth a try and may help.

Remember: "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Try something else than dosing if it doesn't help. Add more silicates if the dino/diatom ratio is still off. You want significantly more diatoms than dinos. The mucus dinos produce can contain digestive enzymes which they can use to feed on larger organisms (including diatoms) so you need a lot of diatoms to choke some dinoflagellates out instead of just feeding them.

I'm not a fan of blackouts for various reasons, but if nothing else worked, try it. DinoM from FaunaMarin might also work. Some people use bottled bacteria which I'm not a fan of either, but you have nothing to lose, do you?

If you can, try ozone or at least H2O2 dosing. Change the flow, salt, or light a little and see how the tank behaves.

I will try stopping nutrient dosing. I tried blackout but they came back after a few days. I will also dose a bit more silicate. I know I have diatoms because there is powder on the glass and the sand is brown in the morning whereas it used to be clear in the morning and then brown up after the lights come on. There is also a more consistent layer of brown on the sand. I guess I just need to be more patient.

Thanks

 

[Peer.Boerner]

Following along to learn. Thanks for starting this thread. I hope all works out for you!

 

[mmorrison55]

TBS live sand and Live rock certainly won’t hurt. Good luck, Dino’s and and and extended ugly stage sucks.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I think the TBS sand will certainly not hurt, but by itself likely will not solve the dinos, (IMO).

Silicate dosing, blackouts, manual removal, and UV are all decent options. Doing many at once is often key.

 

[Davileet]

I have had recent success with installing UV and keeping NO3 10+ and PO4 .15+. Skimmers off and dosing bacteria to use up the nutrients I am dosing. Also putting some phyto in.

 

[Patrick Cox]

I have been reading a log of the Dino threads and I thought about something and have a question...

When I thought my nutrients were high, I added the following to my sump...

1) Algae Scrubber (HOG3X)

2) Polylab Genesis Rock Power Pack
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/genesis-rock-power-rack-w-4-genesis-rocks-polyplab.htm

3) Bag of Marinepure ceramic biomedia spheres. (I mostly added these to have them available for my QT if I needed them but they are also in the sump currently.)

And now today, I have to dose NO3 and PO4 to keep it above zero. I wonder if I have put too much removal in and if I should remove any of the above?

~150 gallon total water volume. Tank is 3 years old. has ~1.5" sand bed and Life Rock in the display (not sure about pounds. I'll guess about 15% of the volume of the display.)

I also have a roller mat and a good skimmer.

Thanks.

 

[Davileet]

I have been reading a log of the Dino threads and I thought about something and have a question...

When I thought my nutrients were high, I added the following to my sump...

1) Algae Scrubber (HOG3X)

2) Polylab Genesis Rock Power Pack
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/genesis-rock-power-rack-w-4-genesis-rocks-polyplab.htm

3) Bag of Marinepure ceramic biomedia spheres. (I mostly added these to have them available for my QT if I needed them but they are also in the sump currently.)

And now today, I have to dose NO3 and PO4 to keep it above zero. I wonder if I have put too much removal in and if I should remove any of the above?

~150 gallon total water volume. Tank is 3 years old. has ~1.5" sand bed and Life Rock in the display (not sure about pounds. I'll guess about 15% of the volume of the display.)

I also have a roller mat and a good skimmer.

Thanks.

Turn off the skimmer and roller mat instead of dosing nutrients.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I have been reading a log of the Dino threads and I thought about something and have a question...

When I thought my nutrients were high, I added the following to my sump...

1) Algae Scrubber (HOG3X)

2) Polylab Genesis Rock Power Pack
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/genesis-rock-power-rack-w-4-genesis-rocks-polyplab.htm

3) Bag of Marinepure ceramic biomedia spheres. (I mostly added these to have them available for my QT if I needed them but they are also in the sump currently.)

And now today, I have to dose NO3 and PO4 to keep it above zero. I wonder if I have put too much removal in and if I should remove any of the above?

~150 gallon total water volume. Tank is 3 years old. has ~1.5" sand bed and Life Rock in the display (not sure about pounds. I'll guess about 15% of the volume of the display.)

I also have a roller mat and a good skimmer.

Thanks.

I do not generally think reducing nutrients is the best dino plan, but I know some folks suggest it.

In any case, I would stop those efforts if you now have levels too low.

 

[Danroo]

Were these changes done a week or two weeks apart from each other?

 

[Naturalreef]

Been through it a few times. Here is what worked for me every time. First two battles, all I used was tropic marin plus np. 1ml per 26 gallons, but I sometimes had to double the dose to get nutrients up. I split the doses 12 hours a part.

Plus np will not show up on test kits for a while, but it will balance and provide nutrients to your coral. Both times using this method, Dino were gone within a couple of days.


This last battle with Ostreo, I took a little different approach. Plus np was taking a little longer than usual and I was losing urchins and snails. I sped up the eradication by using Tropic Marin nitribiotic and plus np together. I added a little neo phos per day to make sure my nutrients didnt tank with the extra bacteria outcompeting the dino. Its day two of the treatment, and dino are 90% gone and rapidly receding.

The nitribiotic method was suggested by youtube channel CJ’s Aquariums.

 

[Patrick Cox]

I do not generally think reducing nutrients is the best dino plan, but I know some folks suggest it.

In any case, I would stop those efforts if you now have levels too low.

Thanks Randy. What would be the order of priority for removing the Bio Media vs the Algae Scrubber? I am assuming I don't want to remove all but maybe. Thanks.

 

[Patrick Cox]

Were these changes done a week or two weeks apart from each other?

Around the same time. I think I put in the bio media and then added the scrubber a week or two later.

 

[Davileet]

Thanks Randy. What would be the order of priority for removing the Bio Media vs the Algae Scrubber? I am assuming I don't want to remove all but maybe. Thanks.

I wouldn't remove bio media. You can take algae scrubber, skimmer, filter floss offline immediately. You are currently stripping your tank of the NO3 and PO4 by having these on, so turn them off and feed heavier until your numbers start to go up.

 

[Danroo]

Around the same time. I think I put in the bio media and then added the scrubber a week or two later.

Changes probably have been made too fast for the bio load to keep up. Making more changes might not help in battling them. The tank needs to reach an equilibrium.