Orphek or halide/t5 for sps tank?

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danlu_gt

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The pucks just dont make much sense to me. They are fine for small tanks but the par is just all over the place until you get pretty far down in the tank. Plus the shading that you get. For big tanks I just dont see them working that well unless you have $9,000 worth of them.

I think they are so "popular" simply because there are not many choices out there. That is just my opinion. The small size thing is simply physics.

Seems to me that the way to go is halides.
The problem with pucks you described is due to individual optical lens to each led diode. This create a bunch of mini-flash lights where there are strong contrast between inside the light beam and outside. This will also be an issue with LEDs with individual optical lens that are all spread out (worse disco effect). There are many technical and aesthetic reasons for puck designs. LED diodes need to be soldered on metal core (copper or aluminum) PCB. Newest PCB technology, which allows for direct thermal paths between thermal pad of led to copper substrate (also called sinkpads), are expansive and extremely hard to manufacture in continuous large panels. I got to tour PCB manufacture plant that have this capability, but they won't let me take any pictures. Direct thermal paths provide 240x more thermal conductivity than traditional metal core PCB with thin dielectric film. For aesthetic reason, different color light source blends better the closer they are to each other (no way around this).

To fix the issue created by multiple mini-flash lights effect, I use individual reflectors which is similar how metal halide uses reflectors. This create a very natural blend of all the different color LEDs, softer shimmers, and eliminates blinding side glares with optical lenses.

At my current price point and ReeFiLove
promo, ReeFi Duo Extremes are already 20+% lower cost with much higher specs than other's top of their line models. I've designed everything from scratch using all custom made components. I've spend a good part of a year sourcing manufacturers to make sure they can make to my specs. After sampling and testing, I've ended up using over 17 different manufacturers for all my custom components. I'm heavy invested in all the custom tooling fees. If you get 4+ ReeFi Duo Extremes, I can provide additinal price break on top of my current promo. When we briefly chatted at Seahorse, I thought you were joking around that you wanted 12. Please contact me and we can discuss any of your concerns or questions in more detail.
 

Jay Norris

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The pucks just dont make much sense to me. They are fine for small tanks but the par is just all over the place until you get pretty far down in the tank. Plus the shading that you get. For big tanks I just dont see them working that well unless you have $9,000 worth of them.

I think they are so "popular" simply because there are not many choices out there. That is just my opinion. The small size thing is simply physics.

Seems to me that the way to go is halides.
Hi, a really good puck style light will give you plenty of converge for your tank, and as to how many you need I would go with one per 24" x 24" area. This would cost around $6500.00 for 8 of them, and you could add a few more if needed. Your $9000.00 estimate is not to far off, but I believe you will get much better coverage with a puck style light. The Radions or GHL Mitra LX 7602 lights would do a magnificent job of lighting your system. My next tank build will be in the 10' x 5' range, or maybe a little bigger 12' x 5' or maybe even 6' wide. On my current 600 gal. system I am using the GHL Mitra lights and I really like them, great coverage and light penetration, and no Disco Ball effect since they use a parabolic reflector, almost the same as good MH light fixtures use
 

danlu_gt

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Hi, a really good puck style light will give you plenty of converge for your tank, and as to how many you need I would go with one per 24" x 24" area. This would cost around $6500.00 for 8 of them, and you could add a few more if needed. Your $9000.00 estimate is not to far off, but I believe you will get much better coverage with a puck style light. The Radions or GHL Mitra LX 7602 lights would do a magnificent job of lighting your system. My next tank build will be in the 10' x 5' range, or maybe a little bigger 12' x 5' or maybe even 6' wide. On my current 600 gal. system I am using the GHL Mitra lights and I really like them, great coverage and light penetration, and no Disco Ball effect since they use a parabolic reflector, almost the same as good MH light fixtures use
GHL Mitra LX with 6 identical smaller pucks means the led color ratio are not very flexible. You end up with too many reds and greens and not enough blues, violets, and UVs. For high PUR, it's not ideal. Plus with such bulky design, you're physical limited on how many you can add and arrange over a tank. Price wise, you can not beat 8 ReeFi Duo Extremes for $5200, much lower than $9000 estimate.
 
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pdxmonkeyboy

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Thanks Daniel,
I guess the big hurdle is cost. After talking to some hood manufacturers and measuring par in the garage, i think three 400's and t5's will be my jumping off point.

Three blockbuster reflectors on craigslist.. $150. Four 4' dual t5ho reflectors on CL.. $300. I only need one more 400 watt ballast.

So all in with bulbs for i am at $700.

Anywho... why is it that LED have more shadows than regular light? Is it because they are more focused?
 

A. grandis

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Hey gang,
Wanted to throw this out there with a little info about my experience. I have a 300 gallon sps tank with a geiseman spectra and reef brites. All told about 1,000 watts of power. I am NOT worried about heat as I live in oregon and for 9 months out of the year my house sits at around 65 degrees. I have 1,100 watts of heater in that system so it's either heaters or halides... one of them is almost always running. I got fantastic growth and coloration.. so much that I typically dismissed LEDs. My settings are ON and OFF, which is fine for me. The Spectra casts an AMAZINGLY even cloud of par.

Flash forward.. buying a new house so of course I need a bigger tank. 8x4x30" in wall. I can build any light rack I want as I am handy. I thought 4 250 halides down the middle and then 2 rows of t5 on each side... a 4 foot wide tank does present challenges for lighting.

But I have been hearing great things about the orphek lights and I really like that they are a big panel as opposed to pucks. So now I an thinking 3 of the big V4 units and nothing else?

Anyone have experience with them for sps growth and coloration? My tank is 80% spa with some euphoria and clams for good measure. How is the disco ball effect?

Do they make corals pop like just reef brites do?

Thanks for any info!
Is this a joke?
You know the halides are way better than any LEDs for what you want.
LOL!
You can cover the whole tank with those expensive Christmas lights and still your halides will win IMHO.
If you choose the LEDs make sure you get lots of heaters. ;Wideyed
Good luck.
 

danlu_gt

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Thanks Daniel,
I guess the big hurdle is cost. After talking to some hood manufacturers and measuring par in the garage, i think three 400's and t5's will be my jumping off point.

Three blockbuster reflectors on craigslist.. $150. Four 4' dual t5ho reflectors on CL.. $300. I only need one more 400 watt ballast.

So all in with bulbs for i am at $700.

Anywho... why is it that LED have more shadows than regular light? Is it because they are more focused?
Hi Brain,

I have 2 MH reflectors you can have if you need more.

Yes, the initial cost of LEDs are high. However, consider no yearly bulbs cost, electricity savings (light plus cooling), and much higher resell value, but for me the main attraction for LEDs is the ability to change color spectrums and intensity as you wish. For example, you can focus the spectrum for growth for part of the day and for color when you're home viewing your tank. You can fine tune intensity to color up SPS or LPS without having to rise or lower light fixtures, move corals up or down, or add shade clothes.

LED only have more shadows when they put optical lens on the diode. Without additional lens or reflectors, LEDs diode have 120-140 deg spread. A lot of manufactures opt to go with optical lens because it focus the light to give more PAR at the bottom of the tank so they can use less LED diodes.. However, this create a focus beam of strong light but outside of that beam cone you have almost no light. So the light becomes very directional. Think of flashlight analogy, everywhere the light hits is bright but it cast a strong shadow and outside the flash light beam is also very dark.
 

A. grandis

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...
Anywho... why is it that LED have more shadows than regular light? Is it because they are more focused?
Because they are a point source of light without reflection from behind the bulbs (diodes). The halides have the reflectors that will do the great job of spreading the light. Plus the halides have a good amount of UV, and LEDs will never substitute that before they melt.
 

A. grandis

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Hi Brain,

I have 2 MH reflectors you can have if you need more.

Yes, the initial cost of LEDs are high. However, consider no yearly bulbs cost, electricity savings (light plus cooling), and much higher resell value, but for me the main attraction for LEDs is the ability to change color spectrums and intensity as you wish. For example, you can focus the spectrum for growth for part of the day and for color when you're home viewing your tank. You can fine tune intensity to color up SPS or LPS without having to rise or lower light fixtures, move corals up or down, or add shade clothes.

LED only have more shadows when they put optical lens on the diode. Without additional lens or reflectors, LEDs diode have 120-140 deg spread. A lot of manufactures opt to go with optical lens because it focus the light to give more PAR at the bottom of the tank so they can use less LED diodes.. However, this create a focus beam of strong light but outside of that beam cone you have almost no light. So the light becomes very directional. Think of flashlight analogy, everywhere the light hits is bright but it cast a strong shadow and outside the flash light beam is also very dark.
Flash light effect, yes. That's why they need T5s to be more decent.
 

Bpb

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Hi Brain,

I have 2 MH reflectors you can have if you need more.

Yes, the initial cost of LEDs are high. However, consider no yearly bulbs cost, electricity savings (light plus cooling), and much higher resell value, but for me the main attraction for LEDs is the ability to change color spectrums and intensity as you wish. For example, you can focus the spectrum for growth for part of the day and for color when you're home viewing your tank. You can fine tune intensity to color up SPS or LPS without having to rise or lower light fixtures, move corals up or down, or add shade clothes.

LED only have more shadows when they put optical lens on the diode. Without additional lens or reflectors, LEDs diode have 120-140 deg spread. A lot of manufactures opt to go with optical lens because it focus the light to give more PAR at the bottom of the tank so they can use less LED diodes.. However, this create a focus beam of strong light but outside of that beam cone you have almost no light. So the light becomes very directional. Think of flashlight analogy, everywhere the light hits is bright but it cast a strong shadow and outside the flash light beam is also very dark.
Spread and shadowing are in no way related. To eliminate or reduce shadowing you need more angles of incidence and scatter. You can have a 250 watt single diode with absolute 180 degree spread and still have hard branch killing shadowing. They have nothing to do with each other. You need more SOURCES at more locations to tackle shadowing. Hence why a metal halide arc can be 0.75”x0.5” but have less shadowing than a radion. Because that single arc becomes 2 dozen arcs aimed at multiple angles and spans up to a 20”x20” footprint.
 

hart24601

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I really like orpheks, that 8' by 4' is a beast though. I can see halides for this but I would try 4 orphek v4 and potentially add strips if need more. Just mount high enough the light spill almost goes over the edges, so you get reflection off the glass. Does great with blending too higher up.
 

jda

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Orphek would absolutely be my choice if somebody MADE me use LEDs. However, there is still too large of a gap in performance and coverage with absolutely no power savings that could ever make up the large initial cost... so until somebody comes and pries my MH out of my cold, dead hands, the stay on the tank.

Edit: I have larger tanks too... and while people mean well when they suppose that what they do on a nano or smaller system will scale to your situation, most of them have no idea (a 75g is almost a nano to me). It is not malice, or anything, just a lack of experience. The people who will tell you 2 to 3 times the panels recommended by the manufacturer are the ones that have likely been there or get it.
 
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biecacka

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I put 2 orpheks on my tank. To replace 2 250 halides. It has been since mid August or so. I have noticed NO reduction in my electric bill. For one I run the orpheks pretty hard so we are probably only taking about 75watts saved per light. Then my heater stays on more.
I do like the orpheks. BUT, I kept my halides just in case and my corals did not do great at first with the switch. I think I ran the leds too hard with too much white. Things are leveling out and should be turning the corner towards positive again real soon.

Corey
 
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pdxmonkeyboy

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It is a little staggering to me how some myths never seem to die. I had offered to sell my 6' geisseman spectra to a guy with a 180g tank and he didn't want it because he "didn't want to run a chiller". We live in Oregon which only has two months with average temps over 80 degrees. My apex records show.. if the halides are on, your heater is off. The halides go off.... 30 minutes later the heaters turn back on.

In cooler climates the net energy savings is absolutely zero. None, zilch. This thread has absolutely convinced me of what my initial feeling was... halide is the way.

My favorite thing that happens is when club members say one day "oh, you went old school" Then another time they say, man, your corals have crazy good color...
 

A. grandis

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It is a little staggering to me how some myths never seem to die. I had offered to sell my 6' geisseman spectra to a guy with a 180g tank and he didn't want it because he "didn't want to run a chiller". We live in Oregon which only has two months with average temps over 80 degrees. My apex records show.. if the halides are on, your heater is off. The halides go off.... 30 minutes later the heaters turn back on.

In cooler climates the net energy savings is absolutely zero. None, zilch. This thread has absolutely convinced me of what my initial feeling was... halide is the way.

My favorite thing that happens is when club members say one day "oh, you went old school" Then another time they say, man, your corals have crazy good color...
That happen to me a lot! They call me to see their tanks and I can't say much, but they complain that if they had T5s or halides... and when they realize what I've got runnig they say they miss their old lights a lot but...
There is no buts! Either you get the best now, and get what you really want, or you live with the flash lights/ Christmas lights.
Life goes very fast and we need to enjoy it!!
I'm glad you can see what's going to satisfy you with the results you're looking for!
 

vetteguy53081

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Wow. Lots of reading but not a straight answer to your question.
I have a 660g with 4 Atlantik units and two OR2 bars. Use acclimation mode when you first get them. They are powerful but do support SPS very well and produce crazy colors!
 

hart24601

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Funny as I see the old myths of LEDs shading every system as one that won't die. Sure it can and was a problem, people mounting something like a kessil at the waterline of a 36" tank and wondering why they are having problems - not even mounting high enough to get reflections off the glass. Then the reefing pendulum swung to the opposite extreme where now I see tank of frags and people absolutely freaking out about shawdows when it would be a year or two before the coral are large enough to even worry about it with their setups of 3 fixtures over the tank. But myths die hard.
 
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