Overpriced lighting

[dawson reynolds]

So in all Business you need to understand your market.
Most people in this hobby want nice things.
If you don’t want to spend the top $$$ for high end lights
You can always get cheap” backbox” lights. These lights
Have been proven to grow corals
Look at this guys tank it’s light we 3 x $100 amazon lights

That’s what I’m saying, most people in this hobby have to have best of the best of everything. (Not saying this is a bad thing)

 

[ReefLab]

Unless you wanna grow sps

Well I keep mine in a T5 hybrid. Adds that gorgeous contrast without the "discoball effect" I had with the hydras.

 

[Jacked Reefer]

Well I keep mine in a T5 hybrid. Adds that gorgeous contrast without the "discoball effect" I had with the hydras.

Awesome! I really like the color the new 360x as well as the single lens. I just find the par lackluster for deeper tanks. I personally don’t worry about disco since I run my lights 18 inches of the tank and don’t have sand. But I find that all lights that are commonly sold can grow coral. It just is a question of how well. As well as the color that it can pull from the coral as well. If kessil made a par monster light I would be the first in line tho.

 

[miyags]

It's the hobby.My pet peeve are protein skimmers..Plastic and a hobby water pump. But its good plastic. for big bucks.

 

[MTBake]

It's the hobby.My pet peeve are protein skimmers..Plastic and a hobby water pump. But its good plastic. for big bucks.

Lol. I was just about to mention protein skimmers. Can't be more than $20 worth of plastic to mold the entire thing. Unless it's a super large skimmer. Yet they sell for hundreds.

 

[dawson reynolds]

Lol. I was just about to mention protein skimmers. Can't be more than $20 worth of plastic to mold the entire thing. Unless it's a super large skimmer. Yet they sell for hundreds.

I just need to rename this thread “Why is everything so dang expensive” lol

 

[Amado]

It's the hobby.My pet peeve are protein skimmers..Plastic and a hobby water pump. But its good plastic. for big bucks.

I was going to make the same point on protein skimmer it’s plastic.
I just purchase a algae scrubber for $$$ when I looked at it
I am sure I can build one with like $20 worth of PVC and two amazon grow lights.

 

[swiss1939]

Is CRI similar to Spectrum output? Because I do think we’re getting there. I’ve been in this hobby for just shy of 5 years now, and I feel like it was all about PAR when I first got into it Now, in the past 6 months, it seems like there’s been a focus on spectrum. BRS gives you the settings needed to light any tank type and size with each light they carry. And there’s also Telegraham Putting together a lot of spectrum data on other lights. Not at all perfect but, now that we know all the lights are powerful enough, it’s all about making sure they’re providing the optimal lighting.

Spectrum output is just what spectrums they claim it outputs at. That is my point, you get lots of marketing material with spectrum graphs that show you what the light is supposed to output in terms of wavelength and yet no hard proof through an industry standard test benchmark. Brs providing settings is only giving you the ideal settings for that light, not providing proof that the light is actually outputting a specific wavelength the manufacturer is claiming it to.

Cri might not be exactly the correct benchmark for this industry but probably is. Cri is telling you how faithful a light source is at rendering any color within the visible spectrum, using true daylight from the sun as the control light source. So a led light that has a 99 cri is capable of rendering colors at nearly perfect accuracy compared to the same colors under sunlight, while another light that has a cri of 85 is kinda poor at reproducing colors accurately and anything lit by it just looks muddy and strangely tinted.

What you end up seeing in film led lighting fixtures is the high end super expensive fixtures have really high cri ratings because the cost of producing LEDs that are that accurate is not cheap, but then you could also go get a similar led fixture that is dirt cheap made under some random brand in China and it is cheap because the cri of those LEDs is horrible.

I say this benchmark might not be ideal for sw lighting because you guys don't really care about faithful reproduction of colors under true sunlight, but prefer very specific targeted spectrums within visible and non visible ranges. But there should still be some testing done to confirm that when red sea, radion, etc.. say their lights spectrum includes specific wavelengths that they actually do hit those wavelengths. This matters because to any of us, we see it as accurate because our eyes and brains can't determine color accuracy on that level in the same way and for the same reasons we also can't tell par just from looking. But your corals sure can tell because they need those specific wavelengths for energy.

Color rendering index - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[LesPoissons]

Your not wrong at all!
Complete rip off, with super high margins and high Labour costs.

That’s why I bought a CBB, Chinese Black Box, a Visparspectra, which cost me 150 Cdn.
I was surprised at the high quality, running 3.5 years now, and most important.....grow anything well.

The Radion is $700 dollars more each and I needed two.
So for $1400, I get more controls which corals don’t use, just the light, nice and simple.

I have the viparspectras too and been running them over 3 years- I just posted a thread about it bc I upgraded to a kessil in my fuge and I was surprised by how my corals responded. Now debating adding kessils to the main display along with or replacing the blackboxes. But my tank def doesnt look anything like that. Can I ask you what your settings are on? Thanks

 

[PacoPetty]

So in all Business you need to understand your market.
Most people in this hobby want nice things.
If you don’t want to spend the top $$$ for high end lights
You can always get cheap” backbox” lights. These lights
Have been proven to grow corals
Look at this guys tank it’s light we 3 x $100 amazon lights

Wow! His tank looks amazing! That is the definition of budget reefing done well.

 

[creativeballance]

I’m not disagreeing with you. I’d just like to know how much these really cost to produce

I can build one for approximately $50 with off the shelf components and a few hours of my time.

 

[creativeballance]

I believe it was 10 years ago or so, Nike shoes in South Korea was only 7 US dollars after cost.

And nike shoes are ****e for running. At least for me. I'll take some Brooks or Newbalance any day.

 

[creativeballance]

Spectrum output is just what spectrums they claim it outputs at. That is my point, you get lots of marketing material with spectrum graphs that show you what the light is supposed to output in terms of wavelength and yet no hard proof through an industry standard test benchmark. Brs providing settings is only giving you the ideal settings for that light, not providing proof that the light is actually outputting a specific wavelength the manufacturer is claiming it to.

Cri might not be exactly the correct benchmark for this industry but probably is. Cri is telling you how faithful a light source is at rendering any color within the visible spectrum, using true daylight from the sun as the control light source. So a led light that has a 99 cri is capable of rendering colors at nearly perfect accuracy compared to the same colors under sunlight, while another light that has a cri of 85 is kinda poor at reproducing colors accurately and anything lit by it just looks muddy and strangely tinted.

What you end up seeing in film led lighting fixtures is the high end super expensive fixtures have really high cri ratings because the cost of producing LEDs that are that accurate is not cheap, but then you could also go get a similar led fixture that is dirt cheap made under some random brand in China and it is cheap because the cri of those LEDs is horrible.

I say this benchmark might not be ideal for sw lighting because you guys don't really care about faithful reproduction of colors under true sunlight, but prefer very specific targeted spectrums within visible and non visible ranges. But there should still be some testing done to confirm that when red sea, radion, etc.. say their lights spectrum includes specific wavelengths that they actually do hit those wavelengths. This matters because to any of us, we see it as accurate because our eyes and brains can't determine color accuracy on that level in the same way and for the same reasons we also can't tell par just from looking. But your corals sure can tell because they need those specific wavelengths for energy.

Color rendering index - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Dont forget that LEDs do color shift over time, especially White leds as the phosphor burns out.
So any color testing done would need a day-1 and an end of life test to see where your color shift will be, and how long it will take to get there.

 

[kkelly007]

IMO kessils are the only "premium" light worth it because of their proprietary dense matrix. It gives incredible shimmer, spread, and absolutely no banding of colors. Orpheks, radions, black boxes, hydras and pretty much every other light functions on distinct diodes.
Of course the black boxes generally don't have as much controllability but I wouldn't consider radions because how similar the technology is to much less expensive competition.
Nothing compares to kessils.

I own a Kessil but run ReefLED 90’s on my DT and they are incredible. I’ve only been on this site for a short time, but it seems to me that most promote the equipment that they own—almost as if they are trying to validate it. Not saying there is anything inherently wrong with that, but imho it’s a great time to be in this hobby because there are several very good equipment options regardless of whether you are talking about light, water movers, return pumps, dosing pumps, or skimmers.

 

[swiss1939]

Dont forget that LEDs do color shift over time, especially White leds as the phosphor burns out.
So any color testing done would need a day-1 and an end of life test to see where your color shift will be, and how long it will take to get there.

Well yes.. That is entirely another discussion. First on my expectations is that out of the box their lights actually do what they say in terms of output. Second is lifespan and how long does the performance take to degrade, which is harder to judge unless someone were to do a long term test.

 

[NitrateKillah]

I understand what your saying.

the true meaning of cost and what they want us to pay.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

I know name brand lights like Kessil and Radion rights are high quality and have a lot of r&d cost but isn’t led lights relatively cheap to produce? I can’t see a xr-30 costing more than $250 to produce and they charge close to $850. Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t see how they have that much going in to a light

I live in the United States, most anything from Germany especially lighting the reason the price is what it is, almost everything on that product is made in Germany, so to make most lighting that's German ,the labor is a lot higher than say China and for that reason or one reason the price difference but quality control is a lot better from Germany then most countries. GHL products all of it made in Germany, I'll definitely buy that no matter the price than most products made in other countries.

Here's an example, why most products are bit higher made here in the US than say China. I bought a pen a month ago all metal nothing special for $22 plus tax(made in the USA), the same exact pen from China a dollar or dollar fifty. The pen for $22 is made in the US, unfortunately the laws in the US is, if you make anything up to 60% of that product you can put on your advertisement made in the US. So in actuality 60% of that item is made in the US.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

I forgot to say, the hobby were in is a rich man's hobby. We always have to take that into consideration

 

[Squidward]

Just avoid those rip off companies.

 

[Kfactor]

i would have to disagree with quality on ecotech and what not if it was that goodwould get more then a year warranty in my opinion . my fight with ai aka ecotech warranty has been a joke to say the least if you pay a premium price you should get what you pay for. i dont know about you guy but from all the stuff i read about the problems ppl have with ecotech and other big name compaines and this so called quality control is a joke. i would love to buy the new g5s as they look unreal but my run in with warranty with stuff turns me off. this is just my opinion