Par is par right and wattage is direct related..or wrong lol

[Sagecritter4life]

Okay experts new guy on reef having issues with picking schedules for two Hydra 26's over red Sea 260 tank.

I tried to switch over to a AI program for LPS based off a proven SPS program but at 50% reduction but noticed wattage figure much lower (18w) with UV Spectrum/violet much higher than previously running but blues much lower.

Previous was output of 28w with 20% higher blues 30% lower uv and 20% lower purple no diff in white/red/green.

Now my Duncan and frogspawn & Hammer don't want to open and really extend logic would tell me much lower par since much lower wattage and they are not liking it....?....or not ? So is the schedule flawed... Was supposed to be better but doesn't initially look good by coral reactions

Can I just use the two-finger method and slide up the power across the board to equal Wattage previously running leavinging Spectrum alone and hence my question is par really par and if run the same wattage will it automatically be the same par just diff spectrum...

Let me hear your thoughts....lol

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

You are correct. Watts and par separate.

Try a $15 lux meter.

Devide lux by 60 to get par.
65 and 70 if you run a higher blue ratio.

 

[Dana Riddle]

Are the hammer and frogspawn corals both 'shriveled' after changing the lighting regimen? An increase in UV/Violet/Blue will, on paper at least, increase the rate of photosynthesis and it sounds like this is what is happening - not a good thing in this case. All wavelengths between 400 and 700 nm are reported equally by a PAR meter, so if the LED efficiencies/absorption by the lenses/etc. are all equal, then watts=PAR. In reality, this probably isn't the case. Hammers/Frogspawn/Torch corals (Euphyllia) usually do well in lower light. I'm maintaining one at present with PAR of a tad over 100.

 

[Sagecritter4life]

Are the hammer and frogspawn corals both 'shriveled' after changing the lighting regimen? An increase in UV/Violet/Blue will, on paper at least, increase the rate of photosynthesis and it sounds like this is what is happening - not a good thing in this case. All wavelengths between 400 and 700 nm are reported equally by a PAR meter, so if the LED efficiencies/absorption by the lenses/etc. are all equal, then watts=PAR. In reality, this probably isn't the case. Hammers/Frogspawn/Torch corals (Euphyllia) usually do well in lower light. I'm maintaining one at present with PAR of a tad over 100.

Yeah technically just barely opened at all since changeing and Duncan almost staying shut similar to when the lights start going down and he closes for the night about halfway down the ramp time so thought maybe it was lack of par since such large decrease in wattage....so Mr riddle are you thinking it's the other way around and need to do an acclamation period due to increased UV even though lower total wattage?

 

[Sagecritter4life]

My apogee par meter has been in and out of my quarantine tank all day today and yesterday so I'm unable to sanitize it comfortably and use due to cross contamination risk.

On old setting Hydra 26's
2 up 8 peak 2 down

35-45-70-65-2-2-10

This new one tried
1 up 7 peak 1 down

68-69-49-48-2-2-10

 

[mcarroll]

I tried to switch over to

Now my Duncan and frogspawn & Hammer don't want to open

You are not the first to report on a situation like this. Corals really seem to hate the tweaking done on fixtures like this "just because it can be done".

logic would tell me much lower par since much lower wattage and they are not liking it....?....or not ? So is the schedule flawed... Was supposed to be better but doesn't initially look good by coral reactions

What/who said that this lighting change was better than the status quo at the time? Were your corals doing fine?

Plus, if you're going to make a change it's always better to make really small changes. Even if you ultimately need a big change. Making any kind of big change to a reef tank can more or less be considered a faux pas. "Nothing good happens fast in a reef tank."

Something to consider further: Healthy corals are very resilient to most changes, but they have their limits.

If your system is typically low on dissolved nutrients and/or making use of heavy nutrient export (bio-blocks, GFO, etc) that can make big changes even more stressful. If it's a pretty new tank, then that seems to magnify all these other stresses.

Can you tell us what your NO3 and PO4 usually test at on this system?

 

[Dana Riddle]

I suspected wavelengths would most beneficial to photosynthesis would increase with your change - they did - but you actually saw an increase in PAR as well. mcarroll's post (above) reflects some of my thoughts on the subject.

 

[Sagecritter4life]

Parameters during last night's testing

Alk 8.1
No3 - 3
Po4 - .03
pH - 8.35
Cal - 440
1.0255 ish

Corals had looked fine using Dan's reef respiration AI file but this was basically BRS conversion of coral lab ab+ for LPS and where was lower overall wattage considerably did not think it would change much my bad chuckle another lesson learned [emoji6]

 

[mcarroll]

No3 - 3
Po4 - .03

Those levels (in particular P) may be too low for protective and repair needs under the circumstances. Possibly flow could be stronger around these corals as well since that's also related to their uptake of nutrients.

Do you use any mechanical filtration or anything else to keep the water "extra clear" from bubbles/particles and whatnot?

Allowing more particles in the water should increase your corals feeding rate and decrease their dependency on dissolved nutrients. Feed your fish more frequently. (Not necessarily more food volume if you're already feeding the right amount...just more frequently. An auto-feeder can be a big help if you're not already using one.)

 

[Sagecritter4life]

Those levels (in particular P) may be too low for protective and repair needs under the circumstances. Possibly flow could be stronger around these corals as well since that's also related to their uptake of nutrients.

Do you use any mechanical filtration or anything else to keep the water "extra clear" from bubbles/particles and whatnot?

Allowing more particles in the water should increase your corals feeding rate and decrease their dependency on dissolved nutrients. Feed your fish more frequently. (Not necessarily more food volume if you're already feeding the right amount...just more frequently. An auto-feeder can be a big help if you're not already using one.)

Been dosing liquid no3 and po4 to keep levels there along with 1x daily feeding at 6pm as gone from 6am to 6pm this time year with marine s pellets to the one pair clowns. Once a week reefroids/cyclopeze mix. If I don't dose within 2-3 days will be 0's across the board (light bioload in 100 gal water total). Not by choice lol but at 76 days takes while to get more fish into DT out of QT.

No gfo only carbon with marine pure plates in sump. I do run a skimmer but no reactors or any other media.

 

[Sagecritter4life]

Having heck with DT but my little QT seems very happy with same light settings only difference is AI Prime HD verses Hydra 26 and none of the higher dollar equipment go figure
lol

 

[mcarroll]

gone from 6am to 6pm this time year

Consider adding an auto-feeder for flakes and/or more pellets. Highly recommended – let it do all the dry food feeding and spread it throughout the day. Now you have time to take care of raising and feeding some live foods! (Or at least some frozen. )

No gfo only carbon with marine pure plates in sump. I do run a skimmer but no reactors or any other media.

Overall, I say this is very good!

You ought to discontinue the denitrator plate until your system actually has a nitrate problem. Doesn't make a lot of sense to have it in there denitrating AND for you to dose nitrates – you're working against yourself!

Activated carbon should be OK, but even that I would discontinue at least until everything has normalized in a good way. Use activated carbon as-needed vs having it running all the time.

 

[mcarroll]

How many fish are coming out of QT at once, BTW?

And how old is this tank?

 

[Sagecritter4life]

How many fish are coming out of QT at once, BTW?

And how old is this tank?

Thanks for you help mcarroll there will be 3 more fish coming out of QT bringing display to 5 total at that point...end goal is total of 6-7 fish.

All 3 tanks (coral/invert qt - fish qt - main display) wet exactly one year yesterday cycled roughly 11 months.

Have ehiem auto feeder that can set up to feed daily that I use during vacations etc..will try that to add a feeding here and there.

I believe part of the reason main display has been tougher was dry rock start and if there is such a thing took it too slow lol.

The qt tanks were simpler no rock no sand with HOB filtration etc with no skimmer etc so no nutrient removal besides water changes or carefull use of gfo in mesh bag occasionally to keep No3 under 10 and Po4 under .20

Followed the advice that nothing good happens fast on main tank but might have took it a little too far which allowed all the the Nitrate/phosphate related media (was running gfo when first started also) and skimmer to completely devoid the aquarium of any nutrients while running fishless for the first several months.

First set of corals did not fare well until I realized they most likely starved since other water parameters normal . I then believe I had an outbreak of dinos (no microscope) but looked like due to no competition and experienced high mortality of cleanup crew (Turbos/Nerite died quickly/urchin) while in the other quarantine tanks everything thrived including algae lol.

I started dosing nutrients at that point after following your thread on dinos and low nutrients to raise them in tank. It took larger than recommended doses just to get detectable for almost a week roughly in Nov.

Now I have a cyano/hair algae war on my hands... so...it seems if feed more it really takes off hard to find balance. Sand turns red/brown in 48 hours sigh..lol even at test levels given earlier.

As new reefer with tons of sometimes conflicting opinions out there trying to find what works for my tank is tough

Sorry for the book..chuckle.

Consider adding an auto-feeder for flakes and/or more pellets. Highly recommended – let it do all the dry food feeding and spread it throughout the day. Now you have time to take care of raising and feeding some live foods! (Or at least some frozen. )



Overall, I say this is very good!

You ought to discontinue the denitrator plate until your system actually has a nitrate problem. Doesn't make a lot of sense to have it in there denitrating AND for you to dose nitrates – you're working against yourself!

Activated carbon should be OK, but even that I would discontinue at least until everything has normalized in a good way. Use activated carbon as-needed vs having it running all the time.

 

[mcarroll]

No worries on the book...at least not from me. That would be pot-kettle-black all day long.

As new reefer with tons of sometimes conflicting opinions out there trying to find what works for my tank is tough

The subject matter (algae/dino's) is awesomely complicated on it own.

When you mix 100 different opinions into the mix, it can be VERY hard to get a picture of what's really going on and what to do.

If you're not an experienced reefer, then all that x10 – you are right!

Stick with your efforts....post questions into the main dino thread as needed....or post them here and just link your post into the big thread along with a brief comment....whichever works for you. LOTS of good eyeballs and second brains there of folks who've already beat dino's.

Now I have a cyano/hair algae war on my hands.

Remember to keep aiming to make smaller and smaller changes in your effort....the ultimate goal is stability....even if that means the presence of some algae.

So declare a truce in the war.

Just stay on top of whatever grows by keeping your CUC population high enough to keep pressure on the algae and keep up with heavy applications of patience.

 

[Sagecritter4life]

No worries on the book...at least not from me. That would be pot-kettle-black all day long. [emoji14]



The subject matter (algae/dino's) is awesomely complicated on it own.

When you mix 100 different opinions into the mix, it can be VERY hard to get a picture of what's really going on and what to do.

If you're not an experienced reefer, then all that x10 – you are right!

Stick with your efforts....post questions into the main dino thread as needed....or post them here and just link your post into the big thread along with a brief comment....whichever works for you. LOTS of good eyeballs and second brains there of folks who've already beat dino's.



Remember to keep aiming to make smaller and smaller changes in your effort....the ultimate goal is stability....even if that means the presence of some algae.

So declare a truce in the war.

Just stay on top of whatever grows by keeping your CUC population high enough to keep pressure on the algae and keep up with heavy applications of patience.

Patience...amen to that...chuckle... and thanks again for your advice and help [emoji106]