Ph going up & Down..need advice

[djd3mon]

View attachment 452590

Parameters:
Temp: 78-79
Ph: below
SG: 1.026
ALk: 9.3
Cal: 420
Mag: 1280
NH3: 0
NO2: 0
NO3: 3
PO4: .20 (super high!!) I am slowly lowering this number

I'm having a small problem with my pH stability. I'm shooting for around 8.20-8.30

Dosing: 2 m/day of B-Ionic
Part 1 at 08:00 am
part 2 at 08:30 am

I dose in the mornings since that's when my pH is the lowest. I just can't seem to get a tighter fluctuation. I hear all the time "Don't chase a specific pH number" I'm just trying to get mine more stable.

The 2 highest points are when I did my water changes.

Should I up my dosage slowly each day to try and get tighter numbers?

Should I dose 1 ml at 03:00 am and then again at 08:00 am?

What are my options?

Thanks

 

[TheEngineer]

You could run a fuge on an alternate lighting schedule. A CO2 scrubber might help too.

 

[djd3mon]

You could run a fuge on an alternate lighting schedule. A CO2 scrubber might help too.

It is a 40 gal AIO tank. Would a 10 gallon fuge be big enough? I have my 5 gal ATO res and my apex setup under my stand. 10 gallons is about all I can fit under there.

How does a CO2 scrubber work. I looked one up on BRS and it just looks like a media container.
edit: I see now, you put co2 absorbent in the container...Cool.
Thanks.

 

[Elegance Coral]

From the 29th through the 1st, the PH swings aren't that bad. What are you doing to the system before and after these dates? Are you manually dosing two part, or doing water changes?

 

[DAPG8GT]

Honestly your graph looks like a typical day/night cycle of a reef tank.. Only real way to combat it and keep it completely stable is to have an equally sized "refugium" on a reverse lighting schedule. Moving down 2-3 10th's is totally normal for the lights out period imo..

C02 scrubber and also moving your skimmer intake so it's pulling in outside air will contribute also. You can also try to break up your dosing over night through the dark period or possibly add a kalk drip vs 2 part for the night cycle.

 

[djd3mon]

From the 29th through the 1st, the PH swings aren't that bad. What are you doing to the system before and after these dates? Are you manually dosing two part, or doing water changes?

I have a dosing pump to dose. I do 10 gallon water changes a week by good ol bucket and muscle, lol

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I agree it looks pretty normal and there's no need to do anything special about it. :)

 

[djd3mon]

Honestly your graph looks like a typical day/night cycle of a reef tank.. Only real way to combat it and keep it completely stable is to have an equally sized "refugium" on a reverse lighting schedule. Moving down 2-3 10th's is totally normal for the lights out period imo..

C02 scrubber and also moving your skimmer intake so it's pulling in outside air will contribute also. You can also try to break up your dosing over night through the dark period or possibly add a kalk drip vs 2 part for the night cycle.

hmm, ok I guess im freaking out over nothing then. I never really thought about adding a 40 gallon fuge running in a reverse schedule. That is a really good idea.

The only reason why I have not started using Kalk was I read a thread on here that its not best to use kalk on a nano tank. If you overdose things go south quick. I will have to do some more research on this.

Thank you.

 

[djd3mon]

I agree it looks pretty normal and there's no need to do anything special about it. :)

thank you!!

 

[JonasRoman]

The fluctuation is completely normal and also exists in nature due to variation in CO2(aq) values, which in turn is due to photosynthetic activity. No animal will take harm and there is no benefits in trying to reduce these variations too much. Second: You can never never reduce these variations with dosing carbonates as this alterations is not due to loss of alkalinity, but as I said, natural fluctuations in CO2(aq).
In nature these variations are a little smaller as the ocean has the advantage to "breath" against air with 400 ppm CO2. Inside we almost have values in the air above this 400 ppm of course, so we alway have some lower pH overall. As a general rule you can state that if the air inside has a CO2 of 800pm(common value of inside air with reasonable ventilation situation) you will lower the pH in your aquarium all over the cycle with around 0.3 pH. The ocean fluctuates between maybe 8.2 to 8.4 with a dKH of 7. In an aquarium situation you will with same dKH have a pH between 7.9-8.2. It is important to say that you cannot rise the pH som much with rising only dKH as the relationship between dKH and pH is not linear, so even if you raise you dKH to for instance so high as dKH10, you will not affect the pH so much (maybe 0.05-0.1 as maximum) . So never try to raise pH with raising dKH as long as dKH is above 7. Go to the source of error, that is, increase the possibility for the water to get rid of CO2...and that is achieved only in one way: Take air to the skimmer from outside or even better, let the air to the skimmer go through a canister with calcium hydroxide(Divesorb), so called CO2-sceubber.

Your values indicates that you have not a pH issue at all, as even your lowest value is quite high. I should do nothing in your place, if you are sure that your pH -probe measure correct.

 

[Lasse]

Let my guess - 27.12 - guests at hoome during afternoon - evening (probably 26.12 also because it start low). 28.12 at evening you add something (limewater ?) 29.12 30.12 no visitor or few. 31.12 no party but 1.1 visitors that probably stay the night. 2.1 you add something around 20.00.

Have I analyzed the graphs in a right way? :)

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Bob Escher]

Honestly your graph looks like a typical day/night cycle of a reef tank.. Only real way to combat it and keep it completely stable is to have an equally sized "refugium" on a reverse lighting schedule. Moving down 2-3 10th's is totally normal for the lights out period imo..

C02 scrubber and also moving your skimmer intake so it's pulling in outside air will contribute also. You can also try to break up your dosing over night through the dark period or possibly add a kalk drip vs 2 part for the night cycle.

Please explain with a refuge light?
I'm having same issue except mine goes down and stays down, my water parameters are similar I use Red Sea coral pro salt. But mine goes down to 7.8 or so I also want it to stay around 8.3 going to get a scrubber but wondering what a light in the fuge will do? I have no cheato at the moment
Thanks

 

[djd3mon]

The fluctuation is completely normal and also exists in nature due to variation in CO2(aq) values, which in turn is due to photosynthetic activity. No animal will take harm and there is no benefits in trying to reduce these variations too much. Second: You can never never reduce these variations with dosing carbonates as this alterations is not due to loss of alkalinity, but as I said, natural fluctuations in CO2(aq).
In nature these variations are a little smaller as the ocean has the advantage to "breath" against air with 400 ppm CO2. Inside we almost have values in the air above this 400 ppm of course, so we alway have some lower pH overall. As a general rule you can state that if the air inside has a CO2 of 800pm(common value of inside air with reasonable ventilation situation) you will lower the pH in your aquarium all over the cycle with around 0.3 pH. The ocean fluctuates between maybe 8.2 to 8.4 with a dKH of 7. In an aquarium situation you will with same dKH have a pH between 7.9-8.2. It is important to say that you cannot rise the pH som much with rising only dKH as the relationship between dKH and pH is not linear, so even if you raise you dKH to for instance so high as dKH10, you will not affect the pH so much (maybe 0.05-0.1 as maximum) . So never try to raise pH with raising dKH as long as dKH is above 7. Go to the source of error, that is, increase the possibility for the water to get rid of CO2...and that is achieved only in one way: Take air to the skimmer from outside or even better, let the air to the skimmer go through a canister with calcium hydroxide(Divesorb), so called CO2-sceubber.

Your values indicates that you have not a pH issue at all, as even your lowest value is quite high. I should do nothing in your place, if you are sure that your pH -probe measure correct.

Thank you for taking time and explaining this. My ph probe is roughly 2 months old (to me). I calibrated it when I got it. (It was used).

I will keep my eye on things for now. Everything is pretty happy in my tank. I don't want to "break it" if is working fine.

Thank you

 

[Lasse]

@Bob Escher : There is an CO2 production in the tank 7/24. There is CO2 in the air all the time but concentration vary. Photosynthesis consume CO2. If you have a reversed light over your refug – the makro will consume CO2 even when the main tank is black. You will have a CO2 consumption during night also. If CO2 takes away through photosynthesis – pH rise. Without a reversed refuge you will not have any consumption during night (night in the display tank) – only production.


Sincerely Lasse

 

[hybridazn]

I agree it looks pretty normal and there's no need to do anything special about it. :)

What this guy said... :Do


It looks normal to me as well, mine looks the same way on my system. I wouldn't chase numbers in this case.

 

[djd3mon]

Let my guess - 27.12 - guests at hoome during afternoon - evening (probably 26.12 also because it start low). 28.12 at evening you add something (limewater ?) 29.12 30.12 no visitor or few. 31.12 no party but 1.1 visitors that probably stay the night. 2.1 you add something around 20.00.

Have I analyzed the graphs in a right way? :)

Sincerely Lasse

28.12 - lights cut off at 22:00 – nothing added

29.12 – did a 5 gallon water change (40 gal tank)

31.12 – lights cut off at 22:00 – no visitors, I was away from the house

1.1 – lights cut off at 22:00 – no visitors.

2.1 – yes did another 5 gal water change!!

 

[djd3mon]

What this guy said... :Do


It looks normal to me as well, mine looks the same way on my system. I wouldn't chase numbers in this case.

thanks

 

[Lasse]

There is a large rise of pH around 18:15 - 28.12 thats the reason why I thought you did something at that time

Sincerely Lasse

 

[ss95003]

Keep your ALk and CA in check and let PH do what it do, it will be fine.

 

[Bob Escher]

@Bob Escher : There is an CO2 production in the tank 7/24. There is CO2 in the air all the time but concentration vary. Photosynthesis consume CO2. If you have a reversed light over your refug – the makro will consume CO2 even when the main tank is black. You will have a CO2 consumption during night also. If CO2 takes away through photosynthesis – pH rise. Without a reversed refuge you will not have any consumption during night (night in the display tank) – only production.


Sincerely Lasse

Oh I know that but I don't have any macro in the fuge right know. I've been using zeovit and that kills macro. I decided not to keep using it but I'm going to use up what I have and go back to Red Sea and macro
Thanks