pH problems

[gfeb]

Hello team, I need some help.

I previously had a healthy aquarium with fat and happy fish and a handful of corals and inverts. I now have 1 coral left, no inverts, and still fat and happy fish.

My problems started about a month ago, I noticed that my overall pH levels were declining. Around 1 month ago, the levels were generally 8.2-8 (swinging day and night). Then my average pH slowly started to drop to where the maximum was 8.1 then 8. THEN, about 2 weeks ago, I had a massive drop overnight to 7.7 and I could not recover it fast enough. I lost all my corals and inverts (except the 1). .

I cannot figure out what caused the sudden drop and even now it's still not recovered. The average these days is 7.8 and it's honestly slowly dropping every day.

To test, I have a Neptune system that has been calibrated and i double check with strips which are consistent with my readings.

My other parameters are fine. I did have a moderate increase in ammonia/nitrates after the die off, but some water changes and medication did correct that and we are at normal levels.

However, pH is still a problem. I have not changed the water source or the salt I use to mix. I did not change the fish diet or anything. I am at a loss. Tank is 6 months old and was really doing well until the 2 weeks ago.
Alkalinity seems fine. I have tried just using pH increase which only temporarily raises it, but seems to tank even faster after I use it. I have tried removing the lid to improve aeration, but it doesn't help and I really doubt that would cause that big of a swing. Any advice/insight would be helpful.

55 gal
3 bagnnai cardicals
1 blue chromis
1 purple dottyback
1 fairy wrase
1 neon green starburst coral left

1 naked clown in QT due to parasite, but doing well currently after some prazipro treatments.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello team, I need some help.

I previously had a healthy aquarium with fat and happy fish and a handful of corals and inverts. I now have 1 coral left, no inverts, and still fat and happy fish.

My problems started about a month ago, I noticed that my overall pH levels were declining. Around 1 month ago, the levels were generally 8.2-8 (swinging day and night). Then my average pH slowly started to drop to where the maximum was 8.1 then 8. THEN, about 2 weeks ago, I had a massive drop overnight to 7.7 and I could not recover it fast enough. I lost all my corals and inverts (except the 1). .

I cannot figure out what caused the sudden drop and even now it's still not recovered. The average these days is 7.8 and it's honestly slowly dropping every day.

To test, I have a Neptune system that has been calibrated and i double check with strips which are consistent with my readings.

My other parameters are fine. I did have a moderate increase in ammonia/nitrates after the die off, but some water changes and medication did correct that and we are at normal levels.

However, pH is still a problem. I have not changed the water source or the salt I use to mix. I did not change the fish diet or anything. I am at a loss. Tank is 6 months old and was really doing well until the 2 weeks ago.
Alkalinity seems fine. I have tried just using pH increase which only temporarily raises it, but seems to tank even faster after I use it. I have tried removing the lid to improve aeration, but it doesn't help and I really doubt that would cause that big of a swing. Any advice/insight would be helpful.

55 gal
3 bagnnai cardicals
1 blue chromis
1 purple dottyback
1 fairy wrase
1 neon green starburst coral left

1 naked clown in QT due to parasite, but doing well currently after some prazipro treatments.

What test kit are you using ?

To raise. you can add a small fan over the sump or tank itself and add bicarbonate to the sump

 

[blaxsun]

What are your current water parameters and what are you using to test pH? I use a calibrated Hanna to test against my Neptune pH probe.

Other things that might be helpful:
* What size is your tank?
* What salt are you using?
* What are you running for lighting?
* What are you running for wavemakers?
* What's your filtration setup?
* What are you using for supplements in your tank?

 

[arking_mark]

A couple of thoughts:

• I doubt your pH swing was the cause of the issue. Many tanks have large daily swings without issues. Inverts would be fine as well.
• If you used Prazipro on your main system, I have some good evidence that Prazipro is not reef safe and impacts photosynthesis. I suffered a loss after using Prazipro. Since I tightly control my pH, I was able to obseve that I no longer got daily highs due to photosynthesis. It took over a week to start seeing those again. I lost several corals.
• A pH of 7.7 isn't realistic if your tank has decent aeration and your house air is safe for humans. I would suspect a measurement issue. You can do a cup aeration test to identify where your issue may lie.
• If you are not maintaining your pumps, you could see a significant drop in their performance by over 50%. This could cause aeration to significantly decrease, CO2 to accumulate, and pH to decrease. Lack of proper flow could cause your corals to die off.
• Be aware that any product claiming to increase pH is usually dosing an Alkalinity product with a high pH boost. Dosing these products based on your pH can cause Alk swings and precipitation events. Alk swings can cause coral die off.

 

[gfeb]

A couple of thoughts:

• I doubt your pH swing was the cause of the issue. Many tanks have large daily swings without issues. Inverts would be fine as well.
• If you used Prazipro on your main system, I have some good evidence that Prazipro is not reef safe and impacts photosynthesis. I suffered a loss after using Prazipro. Since I tightly control my pH, I was able to obseve that I no longer got daily highs due to photosynthesis. It took over a week to start seeing those again. I lost several corals.
• A pH of 7.7 isn't realistic if your tank has decent aeration and your house air is safe for humans. I would suspect a measurement issue. You can do a cup aeration test to identify where your issue may lie.
• If you are not maintaining your pumps, you could see a significant drop in their performance by over 50%. This could cause aeration to significantly decrease, CO2 to accumulate, and pH to decrease. Lack of proper flow could cause your corals to die off.
• Be aware that any product claiming to increase pH is usually dosing an Alkalinity product with a high pH boost. Dosing these products based on your pH can cause Alk swings and precipitation events. Alk swings can cause coral die off.

I appreciate the insight.

I did not use prazipro in the main system. I used it only in the QT tank for the 1 fish. He's still currently in QT.

I am not sure how else to measure. I have the Neptune Apex which does continuous measurements and has been calibrated recently. I also cross check with a separate pH probe AND test strips. They are all pretty consistent. So I do not agree that it's a measurement issue.

What exactly do you mean by maintaining pumps? I have cleaned out the filter and changed when indicated. As far as flow, I have 2 power heads with pretty strong flow. One on each side of the tank. I have them automated to turn on and off to simulate ocean flow and not have consistent flow in the same direction 24 hours a day. But there is one going at all times. I did initially suspect maybe a filter/flow issue, but nothing has changed in the last month and I have been very vigilant with tank maintenance, but any insight is helpful

 

[gfeb]

What test kit are you using ?

To raise. you can add a small fan over the sump or tank itself and add bicarbonate to the sump

I use the Neptune Apex, API kits, Ammonia Alert, and test strips to check my various parameters.

 

[shakacuz]

I use the Neptune Apex, API kits, Ammonia Alert, and test strips to check my various parameters.

API kits are apparently inaccurate. get yourself another PH tester like the hanna 98107

 

[arking_mark]

I appreciate the insight.

I did not use prazipro in the main system. I used it only in the QT tank for the 1 fish. He's still currently in QT.

I am not sure how else to measure. I have the Neptune Apex which does continuous measurements and has been calibrated recently. I also cross check with a separate pH probe AND test strips. They are all pretty consistent. So I do not agree that it's a measurement issue.

What exactly do you mean by maintaining pumps? I have cleaned out the filter and changed when indicated. As far as flow, I have 2 power heads with pretty strong flow. One on each side of the tank. I have them automated to turn on and off to simulate ocean flow and not have consistent flow in the same direction 24 hours a day. But there is one going at all times. I did initially suspect maybe a filter/flow issue, but nothing has changed in the last month and I have been very vigilant with tank maintenance, but any insight is helpful

If your in home air is in normal CO2 ranges and your tank is well aerated, almost any reading below 7.8 is an error.

Let's use a higher level of CO2, say 1000ppm. Your pH with an 8dKH alk would be 7.9 NBS.

 

[gfeb]

What are your current water parameters and what are you using to test pH? I use a calibrated Hanna to test against my Neptune pH probe.

Other things that might be helpful:
* What size is your tank?
* What salt are you using?
* What are you running for lighting?
* What are you running for wavemakers?
* What's your filtration setup?
* What are you using for supplements in your tank?

Attached (on the bottom) is my pH over the last week or so. It's the general trend. I have a pH probe that designed for science/chemistry. Not sure the brand. My husband is a chemist and bought it for me. We calibrate it before each use and it's pretty spot on with my neptune readings.
Salt 34.4
Tmp 79.8F
ORP 371
Ammonia <.02
Nitrates <20
Gh 180
Kh 180
Phos .50ppm
Calcium was around 300 a few days ago.
Current Ph 7.78

55 gallons

Instant Ocean Reef crystals

NICREW Marine LED

I have 2 high flow wave makers that are programed to turn on and off every hour (alternating). One on each end of the tank.

I have a Fluval Canniser that's rated for 75 gal. Currently have mechanical filters, bio filters, phosphate removers, and nitrate remover (recently switched out my carbon after the nitrate spike). I open it up every 3-4 weeks to check on the filters and change when needed.

Supplements: I use stability with any big water change. Used coral essential elements. Prime when needed. pH 8.4 increaser (but not anymore because it's not helping). I have a host of other things under but nothing used recently.

 

[gfeb]

API kits are apparently inaccurate. get yourself another PH tester like the hanna 98107

I do not use API to test ph. I have 2 probes are reading the same thing and are consistent with test strips as well. No the brand is not hannah, but is a chemistry rated pH probe which is calibrated with DI water, acid and a base before every use. the API is just for other parameters like Nitrites, Phos etc.

 

[gfeb]

If your in home air is in normal CO2 ranges and your tank is well aerated, almost any reading below 7.8 is an error.

Let's use a higher level of CO2, say 1000ppm. Your pH with an 8dKH alk would be 7.9 NBS.

That's a very useful program.
I agree, I never thought it was an aeration issue. I have a big house and only 2 humans living in it. We always have doors and windows open.
But if 3 different items are reading the same pH and i had a massive Die off.. then what could it be? this is why I'm at a loss. Normally I wouldnt stress over pH, but this is the only abnormal parameter I have.

 

[arking_mark]

Any pH supplements should almost NEVER be used. They directly impact your Alkalinity. Seeing your very low Ca, I'm betting you may of had a precipitation event...spiked your Alkalinity and caused CaCO3 to percipitate out.

Large Alkalinity swings kill corals.

 

[gfeb]

Any pH supplements should almost NEVER be used. They directly impact your Alkalinity. Seeing your very low Ca, I'm betting you may of had a precipitation event...spiked your Alkalinity and caused CaCO3 to percipitate out.

Large Alkalinity swings kill corals.

hmm, interesting so what causes the precipitation? What do I avoid doing next time? Also, would that kill my shrimp and crab as well?
I only used the pH supplement after the drop in pH and die off in a desperate attempt to keep everyone else alive.

 

[arking_mark]

That's a very useful program.
I agree, I never thought it was an aeration issue. I have a big house and only 2 humans living in it. We always have doors and windows open.
But if 3 different items are reading the same pH and i had a massive Die off.. then what could it be? this is why I'm at a loss. Normally I wouldnt stress over pH, but this is the only abnormal parameter I have.

How I use a cup aeration test to help pinpoint certain pH issues.

• I do 2 tests. One outside and one next to the tank.
• I run an airstone for about 1 hour and measure pH.
• If the outdoor test isn't around 8.2 NBS, then I know I have a meter or Alk issue...and it's never an Alk issue.
• If the next to tank test is below 8.2 NBS, then I have higher indoor CO2...almost always the case.
• If the next to tank test is higher than the tank, I have an aeration issue or something else that is driving down pH...it's almost never something else unless I'm dosing something that lowers pH.
• If the next to tank test is lower than the tank but not at desired levels, then I need to look at my pH management setup.

 

[arking_mark]

Attached (on the bottom) is my pH over the last week or so. It's the general trend. I have a pH probe that designed for science/chemistry. Not sure the brand. My husband is a chemist and bought it for me. We calibrate it before each use and it's pretty spot on with my neptune readings.
Salt 34.4
Tmp 79.8F
ORP 371
Ammonia <.02
Nitrates <20
Gh 180
Kh 180
Phos .50ppm
Calcium was around 300 a few days ago.
Current Ph 7.78

55 gallons

Instant Ocean Reef crystals

NICREW Marine LED

I have 2 high flow wave makers that are programed to turn on and off every hour (alternating). One on each end of the tank.

I have a Fluval Canniser that's rated for 75 gal. Currently have mechanical filters, bio filters, phosphate removers, and nitrate remover (recently switched out my carbon after the nitrate spike). I open it up every 3-4 weeks to check on the filters and change when needed.

Supplements: I use stability with any big water change. Used coral essential elements. Prime when needed. pH 8.4 increaser (but not anymore because it's not helping). I have a host of other things under but nothing used recently.

180ppm Alk = 10dKH
pH = 7.78

Puts your CO2 levels around 2000.

Not usually possible. You'd feel unwell with extended exposure.

So you either have an aeration problem or your dosing something that is lowering your pH such as effluent from a Calcium Reactor, large amounts of vinegar carbon dosing, etc... or your measurements are off.

 

[arking_mark]

hmm, interesting so what causes the precipitation? What do I avoid doing next time? Also, would that kill my shrimp and crab as well?
I only used the pH supplement after the drop in pH and die off in a desperate attempt to keep everyone else alive.

When I try to figure out what is impacting my coral when I see something is not right, chances are that what caused it happen sometime in the past.

My best example of this was with my prized Jellybean Chalice that I had for over a year. It "suddenly" went from great to receding. I triple checked all parameters, checked my PAR, checked my pumps, etc... I couldn't figure out what was happening and it was getting worse day by day. After quite a bit of research I came across a YouTube video of someone (@Coral Euphoria) explaining that issues you see today with corals often are a result of something happening in the past. As I thought back on my tank, the only change I could remember was adding a powerhead on the other side of the tank about 3 weeks before. It was a strong powerhead...but far away and coral love flow, right? Out of nothing to lose, I removed the powerhead. Within days the coral was looking great again.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I use the Neptune Apex, API kits, Ammonia Alert, and test strips to check my various parameters.

API known for false results disappointing many reefers hence the low price for a master kit. Ammonia badge the same as it is also for freshwater. Test strips not much better which is why I asked. I suspect false readings/results.
Take a water sample to a trusted LFS that does NOT use API kits and have them test for you and see what readings they come up with
Hanna and Salifert test kits are more accurate.

 

[arking_mark]

API known for false results disappointing many reefers hence the low price for a master kit. Ammonia badge the same as it is also for freshwater. Test strips not much better which is why I asked. I suspect false readings/results.
Take a water sample to a trusted LFS that does NOT use API kits and have them test for you and see what readings they come up with
Hanna and Salifert test kits are more accurate.

The OP stated that they have two probes for pH, one being Apex Neptune.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I do not use API to test ph. I have 2 probes are reading the same thing and are consistent with test strips as well. No the brand is not hannah, but is a chemistry rated pH probe which is calibrated with DI water, acid and a base before every use. the API is just for other parameters like Nitrites, Phos etc.

When is last time probes have been calibrated ?

 

[arking_mark]

What test kit are you using ?

To raise. you can add a small fan over the sump or tank itself and add bicarbonate to the sump

Please do not use bicarbonate to raise pH. Bicarbonate is an alkalinity supplement and actually temporarily lowers pH. The only increase you will get is from having an increased Alk level once the tank is back in equilibrium.

A tank with 8dKH going to 9dKH will only raise you pH by about 0.05 NBS.