PH Stabilization and issues with Ph numbers

[vetteguy53081]

We often see persons with alk issues and often calcium is mentioned and others indicating slow growth with their coral and rarely is there mention of ph. So how important is Ph and what is it? It's the parts or measurement of hydrogen why it is affected by Co2. The lower the PH level is the greater the level of hydrogen ions. Rarely do we see issues with high PH, but rather those with Low ph. An acceptable range is 7.7-8.4 but more important when seeing these numbers is to get the PH to remain as stable as possible with one value.
Often what drops PH numbers are a strong bioload, too much Co2 in the room/dwelling and mineral deficiencies.
Often when there is a PH issue, many run to buffers or magic chemicals in lieu of finding the cause. Its important to locate the cause. It is normal for ph numbers to fall at night as during the phase of daylight, as Co2 builds up and at lights out, the Co2 is released by organisms.
Stabilization can be accomplished by CA reactors, a refugium with algae and even although can be risky- sodium hydroxide. Safest is a protein skimmer which offers a good gas exchange along with good room ventilation depending on the time of the year as many of do not open windows during the winter.
Soda lime is a used method in the hobby to elevate ph as it binds Co2 from the room air. Its best when air passes through a cartridge via a skimmer and the lime better known as a Co2 scrubber. There are many additives and media and even buffers I see out them but regard them as an alternative and not always a solution.

I keep my PH at 8.4 to compensate for drop at night which is often 8.0-8.1

What do you keep your PH level at and why?
Do you have a problem with PH or is it stable?
What have you done to tackle changes in PH?

 

[bushdoc]

I use many of the modalities mentioned above to keep pH under control:

• Chaeto in sump on reverse photoperiod
• kalk drip
• Sodium carbonate , not bicarbonate as 2 part dosing regimen
• area around tank has got a ventilation system and I am an empty nester with large house, 14 ft ceiling and only two people to generate CO2
• Skimming 24/7
• My pH oscillates from 8.07 to 8.38 or so

I would like to point out though that Calcium reactor would rather drop pH than raise

 

[exnisstech]

For me pH is what it is. The only thing I have ever done to tweak pH was to recently add an airline to the skimmer on the tank in our bedroom. 2 adults and 2 dogs closed up at night was causing pH to drop to 7.9. Adding the airline keeps it at 8.3. Everything looked fine and the tank has been in that room for over 3 years and the only reason I tested was because I found my old Hanna pH checker that I forgot I even had. My other tanks tested at 8.3 so I probably won't test again for a few more years. pH is just something I never bothered to test unless things look bad and I'm trying to figure out why. Right or wrong I dunno but I like to keep things as simple as possible.

 

[Court_Appointed_Hypeman]

Mine has been 8.25 to 8.45 when keeping the windows open. I have a packed house, bunch of kids and pets, when its closed up, I am lucky if my recirculating CO2 scrubber, Kalk ATO, and chaeto on reverse light cycle keep it above 7.9

There is a very noticeable difference in growth when keeping windows open. My duncan closes up for a few hours at lights off, all the way, and appears to just suck up alk, this last 2 weeks staying above 8.25 it has gained more mass than the 6 months before it.

I had to recalibrate my probes because I couldn't beleive it was doing so well. I might run an outside line soon to keep this up. I worry a little doing so will use up my scrubber media quicker, but if outside air is doing this then I have to take it over having a scrubber at all.

 

[bakbay]

Our house is very open and even with opening doors & windows (it doesn’t get hot/cold where I’m at) didn’t really help much. I’ve since done (recirculating) CO2 scrubbing and can get to 8.43 peak and 8.12 at night. When I see pH dips below 8 during the day, it’s time to change the media.

 

[gbru316]

I've tried a few things to stabilize pH (and alk usage).

1. CO2 scrubber was too inconsistent, even with twice weekly media changes and recirculating skimmer. Suspect nearby gas cooktop/oven was causing fluctuations large enough in ambient CO2 that the scrubber was overwhelmed. Typically, CO2 would peak between 1200 and 1500 ppm when cooking -- nominal level is around 700 ppm.

2. ATS implemented 6 months ago hasn't yielded the results I had hoped for. No room for a 'fuge right now, will be including a parallel 60g cube locally collected lagoon tank with seagrass in a future build.



Just started dosing kalk yesterday, supplemented by AF balling method. Cut the AF dosing by half and adding the equivalent dKh in kalk (about 850 mL), spread over 24 hours. Need some time to collect data (Apex/Trident) before I can fine-tune dosing volumes/times to try to smooth it out.


By the end of the year, tank will be in a position where I can pull in outside air which I believe will be the key. Need to custom build the stand/cabinetry for the future 180 with lagoon tank. Current 40g will go on the stand until the larger build starts. Also, planned kitchen renovations include an externally vented hood (induction cooktop isn't an option, wife has a medical implant that warns against it).

 

[vetteguy53081]

I use many of the modalities mentioned above to keep pH under control:

• Chaeto in sump on reverse photoperiod
• kalk drip
• Sodium carbonate , not bicarbonate as 2 part dosing regimen
• area around tank has got a ventilation system and I am an empty nester with large house, 14 ft ceiling and only two people to generate CO2
• Skimming 24/7
• My pH oscillates from 8.07 to 8.38 or so

I would like to point out though that Calcium reactor would rather drop pH than raise

Your right and I should say, CA reactor for stabilization

 

[14 foot reef]

Since I began my journey to stabilize my pH at the highest easily achieved number my system can get, I can 100% agree with @vetteguy53081 that stable pH is a very important and rewarding goal. My tank has never looked better nor has grown and colored up better since stable pH has been achieved. The method I settled on after every type of method out there, is the reverse lighting schedule Kalk dosing. I have a modified Chris Meckley version running.

I dose 15,000ml of Kalk through a Avast K2 stirrer from lights out to lights on ( 10:00pm to 10 am ) with addition of controlled Trident dosing of Lye Sodium Hydroxide (NaOH) in the amount of 500ml per day 24/7, with heaviest dosing from midnight to 10:00am.

My PH is as flat lined as I can get it with this method. Yes alk went up to 12 dkh until the coral growth took off and started consuming alk like crazy. Now my Alk is flat steady between 8.4-8.5 night to day every day.

I will admit, without Apex and Apex controlled dosing, this would be much more labor intensive to do.
With the Neptune Apex, this is as easy as it gets.
My pH stays steady, 8.12-8.22 --- 24/7

 

[Aquachristik]

Since running an outside airline to my skimmer, my pH has been solid.

My CO2 indoors hovers around 700 and goes as high as 1500 (maybe more) when I have people over. Living in S Fla, we can't afford to open windows except for a couple of days out of the year. The pH dips I would get would give me palpitations lol. I also reduced surface agitation in the tank to lessen the effect of in-home CO2 on the pH.

I also use an algae scrubber and dose sodium hydroxide and kalk (dosed at night).

Now my pH stays between 8.40 and 8.25 consistently.

 

[bakbay]

I've tried a few things to stabilize pH (and alk usage).

1. CO2 scrubber was too inconsistent, even with twice weekly media changes and recirculating skimmer. Suspect nearby gas cooktop/oven was causing fluctuations large enough in ambient CO2 that the scrubber was overwhelmed. Typically, CO2 would peak between 1200 and 1500 ppm when cooking -- nominal level is around 700 ppm.

2. ATS implemented 6 months ago hasn't yielded the results I had hoped for. No room for a 'fuge right now, will be including a parallel 60g cube locally collected lagoon tank with seagrass in a future build.



Just started dosing kalk yesterday, supplemented by AF balling method. Cut the AF dosing by half and adding the equivalent dKh in kalk (about 850 mL), spread over 24 hours. Need some time to collect data (Apex/Trident) before I can fine-tune dosing volumes/times to try to smooth it out.


By the end of the year, tank will be in a position where I can pull in outside air which I believe will be the key. Need to custom build the stand/cabinetry for the future 180 with lagoon tank. Current 40g will go on the stand until the larger build starts. Also, planned kitchen renovations include an externally vented hood (induction cooktop isn't an option, wife has a medical implant that warns against it).

I would look at your CO2 media — it makes a huge difference for me (and others). You can go thru months without replacing the media. Just make sure you have a fail-safe way to shut down the skimmer and not suck in all the CO2 media, nuking the whole tank!

 

[gbru316]

I would look at your CO2 media — it makes a huge difference for me (and others). You can go thru months without replacing the media. Just make sure you have a fail-safe way to shut down the skimmer and not suck in all the CO2 media, nuking the whole tank!

Went down that path:

Airing out the house at night (this was in the middle of winter in FL, so it was feasible. Not possible for most of the year because humidity) resulted in a several hundred ppm reduction in average indoor CO2.

 

[bakbay]

Went down that path:

Airing out the house at night (this was in the middle of winter in FL, so it was feasible) resulted in a several hundred ppm reduction in average indoor CO2.

Regardless of indoor CO2, I would have thought that the CO2 media would make a huge difference. What were you using? I've heard that there were some "bad batches" from BRS.

 

[gbru316]

Regardless of indoor CO2, I would have thought that the CO2 media would make a huge difference. What were you using? I've heard that there were some "bad batches" from BRS.

I tried several brands. I also have the ability to measure and log indoor CO2 concentrations next to the tank. There was positive correlation between depressed pH, increased indoor CO2, and cooking with natural gas. I was using the BRS scrubber. I suspect adding another in series could have solved the issue.

My long term plan is outdoor air -- which is free and doesn't require maintenance. No sense in throwing more money at the issue when a permanent (free) solution is in the works.

 

[David_CO]

My Ph is quite high in my coral flat. I dose kalk at evaporation and supplement with additional soda ash. I wish ecotech would fix the firmware in the versa's so i could dose heavier at night.

 

[00W]

At a higher, stable ph my tank looks and does so much better.
I use an oversized skimmer and keep the windows open during the summer but winter is such a struggle for me with 2 dogs,3 teenagers and snow keeping the windows closed and heater going.
I've tried running an airline outside but that window usually gets shut sometimes with the airline in it (yeah no bueno).
I'm thinking maybe an airfilter in that room this winter. Gotta do something different this year.

 

[bakbay]

I tried several brands. I also have the ability to measure and log indoor CO2 concentrations next to the tank. There was positive correlation between depressed pH, increased indoor CO2, and cooking with natural gas. I was using the BRS scrubber. I suspect adding another in series could have solved the issue.

My long term plan is outdoor air -- which is free and doesn't require maintenance. No sense in throwing more money at the issue when a permanent (free) solution is in the works.

Cool -- I've actually drilled a hole to suck in outside air, which is usually fine during SoCal weather, all year round. However, that only got me a small bump in pH boost. I've been using the 5g JorVet soda lime with good results.

JorVet Soda Lime, 5-Gallon - Jorvet

Unit of Measure: EA Click HERE for product images, literature and more.

jorvet.com

Be interested to see your before & after stats with outside air though.

 

[gbru316]

At a higher, stable ph my tank looks and does so much better.
I use an oversized skimmer and keep the windows open during the summer but winter is such a struggle for me with 2 dogs,3 teenagers and snow keeping the windows closed and heater going.
I've tried running an airline outside but that window usually gets shut sometimes with the airline in it (yeah no bueno).
I'm thinking maybe an airfilter in that room this winter. Gotta do something different this year.

Drill a hole through the exterior wall for the airline so you’re not dependent on a partially open window.

Or run the airline to your attic or crawl space (if feasible).

 

[bakbay]

Your right and I should say, CA reactor for stabilization

I run a CaRx as well, hence the pH fun! Alk is somewhat stable (at least within 24hr readings). For me — it’s been CaRx + CO2 scrubbing for the home run! It’s super low maintenance and effective. Other methods are just too messy, IMO.