Philosophies of setting up a FOWLR tank?

DaddyFish · Dec 18, 2020

S2G said:
My favorite fish is the emporer angel. Everything is the same with exception of high power lights. My flow is around soft/lps level. You can drop you salinity as well. I tun 1.020

Nutrient control is numero uno. Turf scrubber, etc.

I agree on salinity, forgot that one. I got tired of mixing two different batches of water for multiple tanks, so I wound up sticking with 1.024

FangsAndGames · Dec 18, 2020

I have a 125 currently and one love it. Pretty much fish only with some softies. I’d say don’t limit yourself and get a good enough light to grow softies (which are not expensive nor hard to come buy) parameter wise it’s not hard obviously. Red Sea has nice recipes for FOWLERS. For selection I really just get what I want. I had a zebra moray and the only reason I got rid of him was because he was eating fish. My trigger whom I thought was a model citizen is getting too big and actually ate a firefish. If you want to add predator fish add them last and make sure to feed. Triggers such as blue throats are probably your best bet. Eels while tons of fun may not be the best. For a lion I’d only add dwarf species but they are beautiful fish nonetheless but you have to be careful of smaller tank mates. For a FOWLR I’d say your best freind is a good LFS whom you trust and has good life stock. For online purchases humble fish and Marine collectors are your best bet. I add nori clips and feed heavily as my filtration is pretty good and I dose Red Sea nitrate remover (can’t remember fancy name). Mostly my philosophy is have fun, don’t limit yourself with lights and salts, don’t worry about params and stability too much if your doing simple things like softies and fish only (again don’t limit yourself to much because you may eventually want a coral that catches your eye), did I say something about limiting yourself ?, and finally feel free to remove and add fish at your leisure as long as they behave, are ok with your size, and most importantly can be cared for. Cheers and good luck!

Fowler freak · Dec 18, 2020

Oberst Hajj said:
Hello everyone,

I'm considering setting up a 150g-210g FOWLR tank and was wondering what the different philosophies for this type of tank are out there. There does not seem to be a lot of posts talking about the different equipment used in building one or how that equipment might differ from a reef setup.

I've seen it posted a few times and it makes total sense that a FOWLR tank would not need the higher end lights like a reef tank would, but what about flow and filtration?

If you have a larger FOWLR tank, what was your thought process in building it?

I have a 220 fowlr tank with 2 aqua uvs 1 40watt and 1 25watt, bubble magus curve 7 skimmer, bubble magus BP-200 reactor full of beads and chemipure, with 2 gyres and two return pumps vectra m1 and a cor-20. I have finally had a lot of success after installing the right equipment, staggering the fish in main tank properly (7 angels, 5 tangs, 4 wrasses, 2 clowns w/nem, 3 basslets, 4 blennies, 2 butterflies, 2 hawk fish, and a marine betta.) The key to my success has been weekly water changes (55 gallons) while gravel vacuuming the sand. If I didn’t do this on a weekly basis there’s no way in hell I’d be able to have this stock in my tank. The best food soaked with supplements helps up their immune system which also helps but the A1 water conditions is the biggest factor.

sfin52 · Dec 19, 2020

Oberst Hajj said:
Thanks @los kados . I do already have a 60g reef cube, so most of my stuff may be undersized for the FOWLR tank. I'll move the Apex stuff over since I already have it, which includes a DOS that I have setup for auto water changes (1g a day on the 60g tank). I still do occasional large water changes, but not very often. Would small daily water changes (upped to 20g a week maybe) still work on the FOWLR tank?

I'd probably sell my Radion XR30W Gen Pro to fund the lights for this tank since the Radion is kind of overkill for fish only.

I've wanted to put a UV light on my cube, but there is no room for one under the stand. You mentioned slow flow for bacteria and fast flow for algae. Would slow flow not work for both?

More room for things to be fragged and grown out. Thats whats going ok with my 55.

Oberst Hajj · Dec 19, 2020

DaddyFish said:
Sorry I'm late to this party!

1. UV - No need to have two separate flows. Target this... UV Wattage sufficient to kill all organisms, algae, bacteria and parasites at a flow rate equal to 2-4 times the tank capacity. 100-gal tank = target flow rate of 200-400 gph. Giving Coralife credit, they have one of the best little charts for their UV units, but you can estimate many others from their chart because they all use the very same lamp and chamber design. Coralife TurboTwist just happens to be more efficient at extending the dwell time which lowers the UV wattage per gph demand.
(Coralife units listed below are 9, 18, 36 watts)

It's really OK to run MORE UV wattage than required. However, heat is a real consideration as whatever size lamp is in your UV unit, must be considered just like a heater of equivalent wattage running however long you run the UV.

I've had great success running 18-watt UVs on 55-gal tanks, 36-watt UVs on 100-gallon tanks etc. If you need more you can either slow the flow rate down (trying hard not to drop below 2x Tank Capacity) or daisy-chain multiple UV units. UV is a essentially a cumulative effect, much like other forms of radiation on living organisms.

Thanks for the detailed info. I'm not sure I'm following how to read those charts and "map" out where my tank would fall on that. Lets assume for now that I have a 210g tank, so 2-4 times tank volume would put me at about 600gph. The way I read the charts is that 600gph flow would be just a bit much to effectivily combat bacteria on a 6x and would be way too much flow to help with algae and parasites. On the 12x chart that same 600gph would be about right to deal with algae, but not the other two.

So is it a matter of picking which of the three you want to target most and aim for that size UV and flow?

Oberst Hajj · Dec 19, 2020

DaddyFish said:
Lighting

Probably the best light I've used thus far is a bar LED from Current USA that's designed primarily for LFS displays. It's a no-frills light, great color for showing off fish and produces very little algae growth and very little heat.

TrueLumen Pro LED Aquarium Light 48" - 12K White/Blue

Wow!!! and it's on sale right now for $30!!! I need to buy another one!
I'm not touting that particular light, but the color temperature, brightness etc. is IMHO an excellent match for FOWLR tanks of the same size (48" light on 48" tank).

I can say for certain that IF your FOWLR goal is to have a tank that's as maintenance free as possible, stay away from reef lighting, or at least be prepared to turn the intensity way down and limit the ON time. Without corals in the tank to consume all the nutrients your fish (and feeding habits) will produce, throwing reef lighting at your FOWLR tank will give you a new part-time job called "scraping algae off everything".

Those lights are super cheap right now, it looks like they might be discontinued and be closed out. For a 6' or 7' tanks I guess the best option would be to get 3 or 4 of the 24" lights and place them front to back. That would greatly increase the costs if each light has to have one of their $50 power supplies.

Do you know if these can be controlled by an Apex? I would be looking for simple ramp up and ramp down for a more natural transition from night to day and back.

Oberst Hajj · Dec 19, 2020

DaddyFish said:
No problem as long as the tank lighting isn't massively different than the ambient room lighting. Otherwise I would recommend leaving the tank light on all day.

I would try to insure the lights stay on long enough in the morning and turn back on early enough in the afternoon to "blend" with natural lighting. Think of it as extending the daylight time on the tank. Fish can get a little quirky if they are exposed to large changes in lighting conditions more than once each day. You want to replicate their natural, tropical sunlight cycle as closely as possible.

Thanks. For the most part we are only home in the late afternoon and evenings, so that is when I want the tank lit the most. However, since the Wife said she might enjoy drinking her coffee in front of the tank (and lets face it, getting the wife to like the tank is a huge bonus) the lights would need to be on at around 5:30-6:00 in the morning. Running the lights from then until say 8:00 or 9:00 at night seems like a long time.

Oberst Hajj · Dec 19, 2020

sfin52 said:
More room for things to be fragged and grown out. Thats whats going ok with my 55.

I would probably move my nems over (I've got 14 or 15 of them now in the 60g cube) and maybe the few softies I already have. If the fish decided the like the softies, I'd have to pull them out. I really don't plan on doing corals going forward. Both the wife and I like the soft/flowy stuff but would rather have larger more active fish than corals.

Oberst Hajj · Dec 19, 2020

I want to make sure I'm understanding the whole return pump and powerhead thing as I've never done this. For the return pump, I really just need to get about 1600gph (about 5x tank volume and about 600gph through a UV light) and ensure the overflow(s) can handle it. Then just use the gyre to add current flow to the DT?

kados · Dec 19, 2020

That sums it about right. Enough pump to get water in. Enough flow to keep water movement with a decent flow. Fowlr simplicity. I wouldn't go nuts trying to calculate too much. For UV. You really need to decide to use for bacteria or for algae. That in between the two won't effectively treat either. It can help both yes but it's not targeting either one.

Oberst Hajj · Dec 19, 2020

los kados said:
That sums it about right. Enough pump to get water in. Enough flow to keep water movement with a decent flow. Fowlr simplicity. I wouldn't go nuts trying to calculate too much. For UV. You really need to decide to use for bacteria or for algae. That in between the two won't effectively treat either. It can help both yes but it's not targeting either one.

Algae will be the main target in the DT for the UV setup, it is about the only thing she hates about aquariums. I'll consider running a UV on my QT to fight either bacteria or parasites before they get into the DT.

Jerry Barnes · Dec 19, 2020

I use a large skimmer, with two 80 watt UV’s. One UV has minimal flow through it back to the tank. The other one is on my return pump. I use simple Chinese leds for lighting. Two MP40’s for flow with seaswirls on the returns. I have 100 gallon rock tub connected to the sump.

Oberst Hajj · Dec 19, 2020

Jerry Barnes said:
I use a large skimmer, with two 80 watt UV’s. One UV has minimal flow through it back to the tank. The other one is on my return pump. I use simple Chinese leds for lighting. Two MP40’s for flow with seaswirls on the returns. I have 100 gallon rock tub connected to the sump.

Thanks for the info. Your tank and stand look great. What are the dimensions on the tank?

Oberst Hajj · Dec 19, 2020

Also, what is the benefit of lowering the salinity in a fish only tank?

DaddyFish · Dec 19, 2020

Oberst Hajj said:
Also, what is the benefit of lowering the salinity in a fish only tank?

Man you ask a lot of questions!

;Woot

... and that's GOOD!

Fish don't have to expend as much energy maintaining osmotic equilibrium (salt/fluid balance) in lower salinity water. Corals don't like it much, but fish are fine. And I've been told (don't know for sure) that it also helps reduce parasites.

kados · Dec 20, 2020

DaddyFish said:
Man you ask a lot of questions!
;Woot
... and that's GOOD!

Fish don't have to expend as much energy maintaining osmotic equilibrium (salt/fluid balance) in lower salinity water. Corals don't like it much, but fish are fine. And I've been told (don't know for sure) that it also helps reduce parasites.

Save $$$ less salt

Oberst Hajj · Dec 20, 2020

DaddyFish said:
Man you ask a lot of questions!
;Woot
... and that's GOOD!

Fish don't have to expend as much energy maintaining osmotic equilibrium (salt/fluid balance) in lower salinity water. Corals don't like it much, but fish are fine. And I've been told (don't know for sure) that it also helps reduce parasites.

Yeah, I don't mind asking lots a questions. lol I do recall now that I too heard something about the lower salinity helping with parasites.

los kados said:
Save $$$ less salt

Saving money in this hobby is always nice.

jda · Dec 20, 2020

I have a pretty simple recipe for FOWLR. I do like to just stack up live rock so that the fish can totally disappear - the arches and caves that people build are not usually good for fish to feel safe, IMO. 1.026 - full strength salinity, but I like to keep lots of reef fish that don't do well in lower salinity (butterflies, wrasses, some triggers). Staple of high quality pellets like New Life Spectrum with a good amount of frozen food. Higher sump turnover - want to be about 10x. Large skimmer. After 6-12 months, constant and consistent carbon dosing to keep N and P low so that coralline grows well - I use sugar, but anything works. Need a few flow pumps in the tank so that if you lose the return pump the fish do not suffocate. Mesh lids on the tanks.

Even some home depot shop lights will grow coralline, but I like to use reef bulbs and don't like the look of garage lights over my tank. ...so next time will likely be 4' Home Depot T5 HO strips with some ATI bulbs run until they burn out... like 2-4 years. Some LED will be OK.

I do not use UV, but I would. I have always had sand, which when well established with microfauna keeps ich at bay when it hits the substrate and becomes a meal. I keep my water more near to real reef levels, so my FOWLRS are teeming with worms, pods, sponges (that the angelfish cannot eat) and stuff.

I keep the water like 76.

Here are some great FOWLR fish that get overlooked:
Semilevartus Butterfly
Pink Tail Trigger
Hawaiian Black Trigger
Guenea Fowl Puffer
Zebra Eel

Mexican Turbos can withstand the onslaught of even super aggressive fish. So can pincushion urchins, but these need lower levels of N and P to thrive. They learn to only come out at night, IME.